Jeremy556
New member
Very common, probably most of the time. Never buy anything from the F&I guy.
2010 4R 4.0 V6 Multiple Significant Oil Leaks
- Thread starter Helix26404
- Start date
thebwlife
Senior Member
Or because your over 18 read what your signing. Warranties are negotiable in prices. My story is in my build thread.
Whiplash Willy
New member
Every dealership pushes those aftermarket warranties on every new and used vehicle they sell, just another way squeeze another buck out of their customers. They always act shocked and act like you are crazy too for not buying it.
The only good experience I have had with an aftermarket warranty is when I canceled it, and actually got my money back 3 months later.
WillK
New member
Okay, I read, then just re-read the entire thread because something's not adding up...
OP, what you describe as a major oil leak looks more like seepage and residue to me. But, we/I don't have the view in pictures of what you have in person, so I can't really say. But I would think an oil leak would normally be classified as there's oil actively leaking and possibly even puddling.
Second, Toyota is saying your 2010 is "too new" to have time specs on tearing down and putting things back together... The car is four years old! Something is not right with that.
Third, might be too late now, but I would have asked Toyota to thoroughly clean the engine then document post-cleaning and check the torque specs on all bolts (without getting into the engine) and monitor it for any leaks post check, cleaning.
Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome....
OP, what you describe as a major oil leak looks more like seepage and residue to me. But, we/I don't have the view in pictures of what you have in person, so I can't really say. But I would think an oil leak would normally be classified as there's oil actively leaking and possibly even puddling.
Second, Toyota is saying your 2010 is "too new" to have time specs on tearing down and putting things back together... The car is four years old! Something is not right with that.
Third, might be too late now, but I would have asked Toyota to thoroughly clean the engine then document post-cleaning and check the torque specs on all bolts (without getting into the engine) and monitor it for any leaks post check, cleaning.
Good luck and keep us posted on the outcome....
Helix26404
New member
Yeah, my pictures don't tell the whole story, but to articulate it's definitely seepage and not actively dripping. My labeling it has a "significant leak" is more my exasperation that this is occurring on an engine that should just be breaking in.
The entire power steering pump and associated hoses are covered. There is also oil seeping from the bellhousing from the rear main seal. Also, a much slower leak at the valve cover gaskets on both sides as evidenced in the pictures. I can't see the timing chain leak so that was news to me.
The warranty company is actually completely willing to cover the repair, they just want justification from the dealer as to why they need 30ish hours. The dealer doesn't have a really good answer, so they are refusing to honor the claim and the dealer is refusing to do it at 20 hours. All of the reference material the warranty provider can find shows 20 hours.
My next step is to get a second opinion and see if that dealer wants 30 hours, as well.
The entire power steering pump and associated hoses are covered. There is also oil seeping from the bellhousing from the rear main seal. Also, a much slower leak at the valve cover gaskets on both sides as evidenced in the pictures. I can't see the timing chain leak so that was news to me.
The warranty company is actually completely willing to cover the repair, they just want justification from the dealer as to why they need 30ish hours. The dealer doesn't have a really good answer, so they are refusing to honor the claim and the dealer is refusing to do it at 20 hours. All of the reference material the warranty provider can find shows 20 hours.
My next step is to get a second opinion and see if that dealer wants 30 hours, as well.
Hi - first off, I am in NO way an expert or even knowledgeable enough about this matter to offer advice.
However, Someone had their motor pulled a few weeks back for a noise issue. Also, it's been quite awhile ago but another member had a front seal blow while vacationing in Florida. May be some info of interest to you in those threads.
The other 99.999% of us are good to go (for now).
I have no data to back that ^^ number up lol.
However, Someone had their motor pulled a few weeks back for a noise issue. Also, it's been quite awhile ago but another member had a front seal blow while vacationing in Florida. May be some info of interest to you in those threads.
The other 99.999% of us are good to go (for now).
I have no data to back that ^^ number up lol.
toyotatech84
New member
As a service manager at Toyota, our Toyota warranty pays warranty time. (Ex water pumps on 4cyl Camrys pay 1.4) if it's a 3rd party we use Alldata labor guides. have the dealership quote warranty time to r/r short block and add a few hours to clean degrease and transfer parts. Now if they don't want to do what's right then the dealer has some other issues like being greedy. As a tech I would take 20hrs to fix your vehicle make the customer happy and loyal to us, Than taking a nice fat ass goose egg just my two cents coming from my tech background and service manager side as well
I know it's a little late but, Never,ever,never, buy a 3rd party warranty. There whole idea is to deny and make profits they could care less if you maintained your vehicle at the dealer or not it all about the bottom line. the factory warranty has Toyota behind it and all the customer service that goes along with it. Not perfect but the best option.
So i checked the warranty labor times that usually extended 3rd party groups would pay and its 12.7 to do the front cover and that will reseal everything but the rear main seal, rear main seal pays 4.6 hours so you are not even close to 20 hours in labor. Parts wont be to expensive maybe 300 bucks for all seals and coolant. In the pictures your leaks barely look like they're leaking and you would never notice any oil loss on the dip stick, even with the older 4.0's with the front covers that leak horribly don't even notice on the dip stick and that's a legit leak vs what you have. Unless you got oil straight dripping on the ground it then its a different story. I'm a dealer tech and have seen it all, you're probably burning oil is you're losing lots of oil. They could by accident put 5w-30 non syn for 10k miles and causing some issues.
934x4
New member
My thoughts; you say you've taken the 4R to the dealership for all your oil changes. First of all, after reading some of the horror stories here about the competency of some dealership oil changes, what are the chances theyre spilling it when refilling? I mean just slopping it in there and get the thing out the door. That would explain the residues, etc. Second, did they not see these 'leaks' when they're doing the oil changes? And finally, when a Toyota service dude comes in here and says they are overcharging for the engine work, that should set off some alarms.
The bottom line for me; I would check my oil level often, clean the spots where I see oil and then see if the leaks reappear. Also, I'd be thinking the dealership maybe isn't the most reputable in the world. I would take it to an indendent Toyota qualified mechanic, or at least another dealership, and see what they say.
The bottom line for me; I would check my oil level often, clean the spots where I see oil and then see if the leaks reappear. Also, I'd be thinking the dealership maybe isn't the most reputable in the world. I would take it to an indendent Toyota qualified mechanic, or at least another dealership, and see what they say.
LandCruiser
New member
Your truck's engine and bits are COVERED in oil.
Does that mean the oil is LEAKING, or was it just spilled?
You're DOWN on oil?
Does that mean the oil is LEAKING, or were you underfilled?
I have not seen a new vehicle made by the big 3, Toyota, Nissan, or Honda having problems like this one in the past 10-15 years.
The last vehicles were Subies that blew their head gaskets at over 100k.
This makes zero sense.
Does that mean the oil is LEAKING, or was it just spilled?
You're DOWN on oil?
Does that mean the oil is LEAKING, or were you underfilled?
I have not seen a new vehicle made by the big 3, Toyota, Nissan, or Honda having problems like this one in the past 10-15 years.
The last vehicles were Subies that blew their head gaskets at over 100k.
This makes zero sense.
What does that even mean? How did you increase the pressure in the engine? Something is wrong with this story.
Helix26404
New member
Did you look at the pictures I posted? I'm trying to understand how an oil spill from routine maintenance could find its way to areas around both valve cover gaskets and the rear main seal.
I realize this is hard to believe and trust me, I feel exactly the same way. My 92 4Runner had 200k miles on it before I had to deal with multiple oil leaks significant enough to invest the time and energy to source and repair them.
Also, I quickly stomped on the service manager's throat when he insinuated I somehow caused a pressure increase in the engine big and sustained enough to blow out its seals in 3 locations. No way.
Am headed to the dealer today or tomorrow to look at the engine more closely and will post pictures after that happens.
Thanks.
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Helix26404
New member
One more thing on the 3rd party warranty matter. Old Republic was refusing to grant the dealership 30 hours to do this work, unless they could show a labor guide that would justify this. They were completely willing to do 20.1 hours, which according to them is actually a bit higher than what the labor guides were calling for.
toyotatech84
New member
ALRIGHT MAN, i did some research as if i had your vehicle in front of me with these concerns. In easy toyota tech/service advisor talk i would key in op code 110121 for valve cover gaskets (both) and i would get paid 3.2 hours. timing cover reseal with front crank seal code #111051 (with various sub op codes) for 14.9 hours. If i wanted to be a dick and be mean i could say the valve covers have to come off to remove the timing cover hence labors over lap and we would be out 3.2 hours. tell them thats the documentation you need to get this shit covered plain and simple. It absolutely drives me nuts when these warranties play games. I will fax over whatever i need to get this handled. or better yet have them send out an adjuster to look at the vehicle, all while making sure they are paying for the rental vehicle i have my customer in. Dont take this as a bash on you or whatever. I just hate how customer portray dealerships as "stealerships" yet we are there when you have warranty complains and are more than willing to help
Helix26404
New member
Thanks toyotatech84. Honestly, I'm the most pissed at Toyota for selling me this engine. I'm about to post 6 pictures that show the extent of these leaks, and this is before they even got the timing cover off, where there is an additional leak. They were working on the timing cover when I got there.
Actually, both the dealership and the warranty company have been very helpful now that they've resolved their disagreement on the number of hours to cover. It was just during those negotiations where I thought they were not going to be able to work it out and leave me to cover the difference, which at the time would have been substantial.
In all my years of driving Toyotas, this is a huge letdown in their commitment to quality.
Helix26404
New member
Ok, here are 6 pictures right after the engine came out of the truck. You can see the extent of the oil leaks in all of these pictures (including fresh oil and old residue).
BTW--thankfully, they were somehow able to get the engine out without removing the ARB bumper. No idea how they were able to do that, but at least I was smiling when I saw that.
BTW--thankfully, they were somehow able to get the engine out without removing the ARB bumper. No idea how they were able to do that, but at least I was smiling when I saw that.
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tamerunner
New member
In all my years of driving Toyotas, this is a huge letdown in their commitment to quality.[/QUOTE]
I understand that this is not the norm for Toyota but keep in mind they don't manufacturer everything either. There are lemon laws for a reason also because things happen. If this has not been a widespread thing then apparently there were some bad seals or somebody messed up. I said it in another thread, that our vehicles are built by humans and things will be wrong occasionally.
I understand that this is not the norm for Toyota but keep in mind they don't manufacturer everything either. There are lemon laws for a reason also because things happen. If this has not been a widespread thing then apparently there were some bad seals or somebody messed up. I said it in another thread, that our vehicles are built by humans and things will be wrong occasionally.
