2014 Headlights

[mace.]

Eddibx and philsey, you could at least find a reason why a hid bulb won't perform well in a incandescent projector. If you at least said that it is because, I don't know, the filament of the halogen is not located at the same place as the HID, which cause glare. But you didn't give any good argument yet.

Personally, I am pretty sure a HID bulb in a 4runner projector would not cause any more so feared glare than a HID bulb in some OEM mercedes projector. I've seen some halogen projector retrofitted with HID, and cut off was sharp as a razor, glare wasn't a problem also.

As for the page philsey gave, it is an ooold page I read years ago, and as far as I know, this does not cover HID in projectors retrofits. This explains well what happens when you put some HID in your normal headlamps.

Exactly what you said about the filament is one good reason as to why it shouldn't be done. Halogen reflectors are designed for one specific bulb with a filament in a specific location. Not a arc of light in a different location with a higher output.

 

[mace.]

If you look at the link I posted you will see actual analysis of why it isn't a good idea. Where is the testing that shows it is a good move? It's all speculation from people who want a low cost solution without doing it right.

 

[superwhite]

....

 

[eddiebx]

I looked at those HID retrofits and searched the internet and decided against it myself cost and fear of blinding others were my concerns. But I'm laughing at the irony of this statement after I just got done following your write up on converting an h9 bulb to fit our h11 housing [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION]. I know it's not really the same but your still modifying the headlight to make it brighter potentially at other drivers expense.

:behindsofa:

Thanks for that write up btw! Haha

LOL! I knew this would come back to bite me. IMO, the H9 mod is not that bad because we're only increase the lumen by ~50% vs increasing it by 200-300% (if you stuck in an HID capsule in place of the H11). Also another even important reason is that the HID capsule's arc's shape/size is no where near what the halogen filament looks like.

In the case of the H9 to H11 swap, you're just replacing the filament with a brighter one; whereas, if you swap in an HID capsule, you're not only replacing it with a MUCH brighter source but also altering the shape and size of the arc. You can imagine what it does to precision optics.

However, practically speaking, it really all depends on how the headlight optics control the glare of a halogen bulb. Some halogen reflectors and projectors might just work out sufficiently (if you're not too picky about hot spots or even light distribution). This can only be determined on a case by case basis, so it's really hard for anyone to make a generalized statement of yes it will work, or no it will not.

 

[diverscale]

.

However, practically speaking, it really all depends on how the headlight optics control the glare of a halogen bulb. Some halogen reflectors and projectors might just work out sufficiently (if you're not too picky about hot spots or even light distribution). This can only be determined on a case by case basis, so it's really hard for anyone to make a generalized statement of yes it will work, or no it will not.

Exactly! Those images provided come from this ooooold article about HID in headlamps. No one here has solid proofs that a HID bulb will compromise visibility in a stock projector. We don't even know if they calculate the projector for the minimal differences in filaments locations/HID discharge of the two different kind of bulbs. We don't even know, maybe the projector housing Toyota is using on the 4runner is the same as another vehicle with stock HID! But the Retrofit Police is always very quick to respond just kidding guys!

 

[patch]

You won't know unless you try it and see what it is like. I recently got a used new style maxima for my wife. They have projectors and some models are halogen and some hid with the stock hid costing a lot more than the halogen. Very little research showed they use the same part number for the projector for halogen or hid. So a simple swap off bulbs and its a world of a difference in light output without glare and at the fraction of factory prices. So by the philosophy of don't ever put hids into your stock halogen projector is wrong in this instance. I doubt toyota made a special projector for the 14s. I bet it is a projector off another model just have to figure out what one and if they off a hid in that model. Just my 2 cents and experience.

 

[mdogg]

Exactly! Those images provided come from this ooooold article about HID in headlamps. No one here has solid proofs that a HID bulb will compromise visibility in a stock projector.

Honestly sounds like a "Who's on First?" bit. Sounds like you are confusing "headlamps" with "halogen reflector housing"

The website mentioned is generally about HID bulbs in halogen housings - likely due to the age of the site itself. It does not matter if the halogen housing is of the reflector or projector styles. As mentioned here already, it is the optics that won't line up with the new bulb at the new output levels. The actual physical location of the light source is generally different on the rebased HID bulb. This means that all of the optics/geometry of the OEM bulb do not apply (and therefore, light from the new HID rebased bulb does not shine where the manufacturer of the headlight intended.

Even if the optics are perfectly lined up, there is still the issue of output. As was already mentioned here, correctly (again), is the squirrel finders from the OEM. They perform significant testing regarding how much light is acceptable in the squirrel finders (above the cutoff). If the optics are otherwise perfect, the new rebased HID bulb will far exceed any acceptable limit of light shining forward and above the cutoff.

I really don't see how this can be so confusing. Don't put rebased HID bulbs into halogen housings. Don't take the easy/cheap/dangerous way out. If you want HID lighting, man up and put proper projectors and bulbs together.

/thread

 

[diverscale]

Honestly sounds like a "Who's on First?" bit. Sounds like you are confusing "headlamps" with "halogen reflector housing"

The website mentioned is generally about HID bulbs in halogen housings - likely due to the age of the site itself. It does not matter if the halogen housing is of the reflector or projector styles. As mentioned here already, it is the optics that won't line up with the new bulb at the new output levels. The actual physical location of the light source is generally different on the rebased HID bulb. This means that all of the optics/geometry of the OEM bulb do not apply (and therefore, light from the new HID rebased bulb does not shine where the manufacturer of the headlight intended.

Even if the optics are perfectly lined up, there is still the issue of output. As was already mentioned here, correctly (again), is the squirrel finders from the OEM. They perform significant testing regarding how much light is acceptable in the squirrel finders (above the cutoff). If the optics are otherwise perfect, the new rebased HID bulb will far exceed any acceptable limit of light shining forward and above the cutoff.

I really don't see how this can be so confusing. Don't put rebased HID bulbs into halogen housings. Don't take the easy/cheap/dangerous way out. If you want HID lighting, man up and put proper projectors and bulbs together.

/thread

Sorry for the headlamp confusion, and english not being my native language!

Still, you are only providing opinions, no facts.

/thread continues!

 

[RECDOG]

How apropos .... that's what my 16 YO granddaughter says when confronted with logic. Did you rolleyes too?

Here's a link for you. I know you don't care, and won't read it, but ..... whatever.

Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

D Stern is a highly recognized authority on automotive lighting.

Peace Speedy.

This forum is the worst...I constantly see people..."elite" members here bashing everyone and anyone who dare asks a question or disagrees with the 4runner GODS on here lol

..and you better not argue too much with them cause you will be banned...true story

terrible forum

lol ill prob. be banned any minute.

I been on a lot of auto forums...Im a huge enthusiast ,,this is by far the most hostile forum I have ever been on. makes you feel unwelcome and dare not want to ask a question.

 

[RECDOG]

Oh and to OP I have put HId in halogen projectors...absolutely fine. Not obnoxious glare..FINE.

 

[diverscale]

This forum is the worst...I constantly see people..."elite" members here bashing everyone and anyone who dare asks a question or disagrees with the 4runner GODS on here lol

..and you better not argue too much with them cause you will be banned...true story

terrible forum

lol ill prob. be banned any minute.

I been on a lot of auto forums...Im a huge enthusiast ,,this is by far the most hostile forum I have ever been on. makes you feel unwelcome and dare not want to ask a question.

While I do not like this kind of attitude, I tend to agree with you. Patronizing attitude every time someone ask this kind of question. If we got the jobs and the money to buy a 5TH gen, we are no kids anymore! Though, when needed, this forum is a lot of help from other ''elites'' like antman, 1engineer and all the others who try to help when we ask some question or we are anxious about something on our trucks. I too try to help as much as I can, but I am not here as often, and do not have all the knowledge that a lot here have.

Oh and to OP I have put HId in halogen projectors...absolutely fine. Not obnoxious glare..FINE.

Here, this post, if the installation was indeed real (sure pictures would help), is worth more than any of the opinions of the Retrofit Police ( :becky: ) that are not backed by any facts. I would not do a retrofit in my stock headlamps (2013 model) but for SURE I would do it on a 2014 model.

 

[SoCal4Run]

Oh and to OP I have put HId in halogen projectors...absolutely fine. Not obnoxious glare..FINE.

Thanks RECDOG, I appreciate your posts. I was a little surprised that 2 of the first 3 responses were, "been covered" and "search". Understand it to a point. But a forum is all about discussion.

On another note, I have another question. On my previous bmw, I had my car programmed so that the Amber bulbs were off unless turn signals were on. Called Amber delete mid. Is there anything like that on here? I did search but didn't find anything. Also wondering if installing LED bulbs will throw errors, such as license plate bulbs and access lights under side mirrors. Thanks

 

[diverscale]

Thanks RECDOG, I appreciate your posts. I was a little surprised that 2 of the first 3 responses were, "been covered" and "search". Understand it to a point. But a forum is all about discussion.

On another note, I have another question. On my previous bmw, I had my car programmed so that the Amber bulbs were off unless turn signals were on. Called Amber delete mid. Is there anything like that on here? I did search but didn't find anything. Also wondering if installing LED bulbs will throw errors, such as license plate bulbs and access lights under side mirrors. Thanks

I have put LED bulbs in the puddle lights, and licence plate lights. Also every interior lights there is in this truck. This is direct fit, there is even a whole 10+ page thread about it, with even the directions on how to install, and where to buy all of your LEDs, with the part numbers, etc.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/62252-interior-lighting-mod-9.html

search for posts made by ''stifler'' if I remember well, he details the installation.

 

[RECDOG]

While I do not like this kind of attitude, I tend to agree with you. Patronizing attitude every time someone ask this kind of question. If we got the jobs and the money to buy a 5TH gen, we are no kids anymore! Though, when needed, this forum is a lot of help from other ''elites'' like antman, 1engineer and all the others who try to help when we ask some question or we are anxious about something on our trucks. I too try to help as much as I can, but I am not here as often, and do not have all the knowledge that a lot here have.



Here, this post, if the installation was indeed real (sure pictures would help), is worth more than any of the opinions of the Retrofit Police ( :becky: ) that are not backed by any facts. I would not do a retrofit in my stock headlamps (2013 model) but for SURE I would do it on a 2014 model.

ATM I have a 2014 FJ (fully moded suspension / wheels already lol) that I just put HID projector housings in from PROTUNNING..and there awesome..
But I put HID in my wifes Hyundai halogen projector housings and they were fine 6000k..no glare..good cut off....I would throw some pics up..but she just traded it in for a new corolla lol

I started at one point asking some HId questions on here when I was going to grab a 14 4runner..but got flamed pretty fast..I ened up going with a 14 FJ for now.....

Will be getting a TRD pro 4runner at the end of the year for sure..im loving it...and will absolutely be putting those same exact HID you posted in the halogen housings.

 

[mdogg]

Oh and to OP I have put HId in halogen projectors...absolutely fine. Not obnoxious glare..FINE.

Here, this post, if the installation was indeed real (sure pictures would help), is worth more than any of the opinions of the Retrofit Police ( :becky: ) that are not backed by any facts. I would not do a retrofit in my stock headlamps (2013 model) but for SURE I would do it on a 2014 model.

LMAO.... someone says HID bulbs in halogen reflectors is "fine" and you're all set for it? I didn't know that "absolute fine" and "Not obnoxious glare" counted as data-based measurements.....

Honestly, it sounds like some people in this thread, and nearly all similar prior threads, are just looking for someone to say it's ok to run rebased HID bulbs in halogen housings (again, it doesn't matter reflector- or projector-based). As you can see, most people on here do not agree with that setup and are telling you to do it the right way.

Folks, this isn't a riced out Civic. The crowd here is a little older, a little more mature, and generally more knowledgeable, reasonable, and logical. If you want a million people to blindly confirm your decision to run HID's without retrofitting projectors designed for the bulbs, go buy one of those vehicles and go to one of those forums. If you want to do it correctly, then as they say.... gotta pay to play.

Although I'm now 100% convinced that you aren't looking for "facts" based on your support of vague anecdotes, I will post this picture:

As you can probably see, the bulbs are not the same shape or design, light is not emitted from the exact same points, and light is not restricted from the same areas at the same angles. I really don't know what other types of facts you're looking for on this subject. Do you understand how lighting works in headlights? I am not trying to belittle anyone, but it seems you might not understand the actual concept. The vast majority of the light thrown forward is actually light being reflected from the rear bowl, not from the bulb going directly forward. The purpose of the bowl is to take a limited amount of light from a specific bulb at a specific focal point and essentially magnify what you see in front. It does this at nearly infinite angles on half of the bowl from the rear using light which would otherwise be "lost" since it was going backward.

Oh, and just because a cutoff "looks fine", doesn't mean it actually is. You would really need to measure the amount of light at several points above the cutoff on both before/after to prove that it is just as safe as the old setup. Eyeball test of a couple of people doesn't work here. I apologize for the physical geometry that concludes you can't drop in a "PNP HID kit" and have better light with no drawbacks. Sorry.

 

[mace.]

This question would be better suited for the people over at HIDPlanet.com They have much more info on this topic and can probably give a more definitive answer.

 

[SoCal4Run]

Wow, didn't think I would get such an argument going. And I'm not necessarily planning on doing it, just wondering. Guess I was a little confused why put a projector in the headlight but not HID?

And further on my question with the front turn signals. So there are two filaments right? One that stays on with headlights and the other that blinks for turn signals. If I cut or cover the source for that filament, will that work to only have them work as turn signals?

 

[mdogg]

Guess I was a little confused why put a projector in the headlight but not HID?

My best guess is cost. The upgrade from halogen reflectors to halogen projectors is essentially the additional projector itself - all other wiring could still be used assuming the bulb/wattage is the same. HID system would be an additional projector as well as significantly more expensive bulbs and ballasts (maybe additional DOT/NHTSA certifications as well?). If they had gone to bi-xenon, then the cost of the projectors goes up even more due to the extra solenoid to control the cutoff shield.

I assume it was the designers and bean counters sitting at a table saying "let's make this thing look more modern and sleeker, but keep the cost increase to a minimum." Also, if they added everything to make this the ideal vehicle (v8, HID lighting, ultra luxury, more sound deadening, Mark Levinson stereo, etc.), why would anyone go buy a GX (or LC) if the only differentiation was the badge?

 

[RECDOG]

My best guess is cost. The upgrade from halogen reflectors to halogen projectors is essentially the additional projector itself - all other wiring could still be used assuming the bulb/wattage is the same. HID system would be an additional projector as well as significantly more expensive bulbs and ballasts (maybe additional DOT/NHTSA certifications as well?). If they had gone to bi-xenon, then the cost of the projectors goes up even more due to the extra solenoid to control the cutoff shield.

I assume it was the designers and bean counters sitting at a table saying "let's make this thing look more modern and sleeker, but keep the cost increase to a minimum." Also, if they added everything to make this the ideal vehicle (v8, HID lighting, ultra luxury, more sound deadening, Mark Levinson stereo, etc.), why would anyone go buy a GX (or LC) if the only differentiation was the badge?

I have to agree with you on that one..

If you jazz it up to much here in America.. Why buy the lexus.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Here is a thread from teh 4th gen section on HIDs in stock Halogen Projectors. After modifying the Squirrel finders, output actually looks pretty good, not as good as a HID projector, but not dangerously bad, like it would be in a Halogen Reflector.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/29458-hid-project-write-up-detail-pics.html

Output from a 4th gen stock halogen projector (modified squirrels)