philsey
New member
I call BS. Not on you Warner, but your source's source. No way does this kind of (REAL) info come out of Toyota from technician-level training. This is "he-said, she-said". IMO, of course.
"Safety reasons"?? I'd love to hear one.
2015 End of body on frame (4Runner) SUVs for Toyota.
- Thread starter WarnerD9
- Start date
I call BS. Not on you Warner, but your source's source. No way does this kind of (REAL) info come out of Toyota from technician-level training. This is "he-said, she-said". IMO, of course.
"Safety reasons"?? I'd love to hear one.
andy2008
New member
I posted up in the thread id like to tell Toyota on the fjcruiserforums.com a few weeks ago about they better keep the 4runner and FJ frame on body suv's or they will never sell a new one to people like us again! Kills me that they can't leave a great thing be when I read this told the wife better get ready to ride our 4th and 5th gen's till the wheels fall off then be back in double cab tacos! Just today purposely took the 5th gen down in the muck to post some picks up in the guys thread about 4runners being too girly so he was considering a highlander or a rav4 to point out neither of them would ever go there:der: I'd hope it's just someone running his mouth !
NuclearN8
New member
This is just nonsense. It may happen but it will not happen overnight or by 2015 and it definitely will not include all Toyota models... Really, the FJ is going to get discontinued and no more BoF suv's for Toyota....? and this was put out in a technician training class... riiiiiiiiight. I"m raisin the BS flag on this one....
change is inevitable, just ask Harley riders who never thought they'd see the day liquid cooling came to a full dresser, but guess what, it's here (but not in all models only as an option)...
change is inevitable, just ask Harley riders who never thought they'd see the day liquid cooling came to a full dresser, but guess what, it's here (but not in all models only as an option)...
snivilous
Senior Member
They want to give the person who hits you a better chance at staying alive.
Martinjmpr
New member
You forgot the Xterra.
: I don't know about other parts of the country but here in CO you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a half-dozen Xterras.
Also you have to figure that a double-cab short bed 4x4 pickup (either compact or full size) fills the same market niche as an SUV. So even if the 4runner gets dropped (unlikely as it's a popular model), customers would still be able to get a 4 door Taco which is an SUV in all but name.
You forgot the Xterra.
I don't know about other parts of the country but here in CO you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a half-dozen Xterras.
Also you have to figure that a double-cab short bed 4x4 pickup (either compact or full size) fills the same market niche as an SUV. So even if the 4runner gets dropped (unlikely as it's a popular model), customers would still be able to get a 4 door Taco which is an SUV in all but name.
Nissan is Japanese, he said he wanted Detroit iron.
When I visit my family in Oregon I see the Xterras all over the place.
But the President of Toyota Motor Sales said in the article above I posted that the do intend to go away from BOF vehicles, and goes on to sall "all" BOF SUVs will be gone before 2025.
Martinjmpr
New member
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Dirtyfingers
Senior Member
Goddamnit...I just had to see this thread...
Sorry, I just read too many of these "my mechanic/technician/watchmaker/golf pro/gunsmith/flight instructor, who happens to be super-connected said blah blah blah" to take any of them seriously anymore.
Bottom line is people like to talk, and people like to feel important, which is generally a formula for someone being full of $#!+
Bottom line is people like to talk, and people like to feel important, which is generally a formula for someone being full of $#!+
Body on frame (bof) construction, utilizing a separate steel chassis stucture to which the body and drivetrain parts are all bolted to, is perceived as more durable than unibody construction where the sheetmetal body is the chassis.
There are concerns of lesser long-term fatigue resistance with unibody construction when subjected to heavy use. Impact resistance (think rock crawling) of a heavy gauge steel frame is superior to that of a relatively light gauge unibody rail.
The design and installation of aftermarket parts such as suspension components, bumpers, and sliders is also more challenging for a unibody vehicle.
Probably the biggest hurdle is simply overcoming the ingrained perception of many enthusiasts that BOF construction is just one of those things that makes a truck, well, a truck...
Advantages of unibody construction can include lighter weight and increased economies of scale in (oem) parts sourcing and vehicle manufacturing.
4Runner enthusiasts have weathered the demise of leaf springs, solid front axles, removable tops, locking hubs, manual transmissions, and 4 banger motor options. Guess we'll see how it goes when/if BOF construction goes the way of the dinosaurs...
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MarkinWMich
New member
End of Body-on-Frame
Well, the rumor around the Jeep camp is that the Wrangler will either cease production or will no longer be body-on-frame, either...again, for safety reasons and fuel economy. Within a few years, the average fleet fuel mileage will have to be around 50mpg. So, like it or not, much will have to change...dramatically. If you've got a decent trail rig right now, plan on keeping it, even if it is no longer a daily driver, but a weekend toy. The writing is on the wall and many models from many manufacturers have already gone to this wimpy, unibody, cross-over design.
My next vehicle will likely be a truck...likely a Tacoma, if they still plan on making it within the next few years. The days of a true off-road capable SUV are going away.
Well, the rumor around the Jeep camp is that the Wrangler will either cease production or will no longer be body-on-frame, either...again, for safety reasons and fuel economy. Within a few years, the average fleet fuel mileage will have to be around 50mpg. So, like it or not, much will have to change...dramatically. If you've got a decent trail rig right now, plan on keeping it, even if it is no longer a daily driver, but a weekend toy. The writing is on the wall and many models from many manufacturers have already gone to this wimpy, unibody, cross-over design.
My next vehicle will likely be a truck...likely a Tacoma, if they still plan on making it within the next few years. The days of a true off-road capable SUV are going away.
mnofpeace
Member
then i guess this was the perfect time to pick up my left over 2014 4runner...
whew...that was close.
i specifically chose this truck over the honda pilot and ford explorer because they were NOT trucks, being the current owner of a very loyal and reliable 2003 F150 w/ 130k miles on it...and still going strong.
I see why all of the mfg would make a change like this, but the size of the US market, you would think, would dictate having some off-road capable, truck-based vehicles still of value. oh well...ive got mine...
whew...that was close.
i specifically chose this truck over the honda pilot and ford explorer because they were NOT trucks, being the current owner of a very loyal and reliable 2003 F150 w/ 130k miles on it...and still going strong.
I see why all of the mfg would make a change like this, but the size of the US market, you would think, would dictate having some off-road capable, truck-based vehicles still of value. oh well...ive got mine...
KidVermicious
New member
My theory, and it's just a theory, is that crossovers and four door pickups have doomed the SUV.
Look at all the people that might be in the market for an SUV. The vast majority are actually in the market for something that drives like a car but with more room for people that isn't a minivan. They couldn't care less if it's body on frame or has true 4WD (or even has 4WD at all), they just want something big that behaves like a car. So crossovers eat up most of that market, because a crossover does what those buyers want better than a traditional SUV does. Then there's a tiny portion of the market that actually want a crossover or a minivan but aren't secure enough in their manhood to be seen driving one, so they pick something like the 4Runner because they like the look (then they come onto forums like this and complain about the ride comfort or a tiny rattle or something and we all point and laugh until they trade it in for something else). Most of the remaining market is folks that want a vehicle with the capability and cargo space of a pickup truck that can seat four or five in comfort, and remember that that's what most SUVs originally were - 4Runners, Broncos, Blazers, Explorers, Pathfinders, etc, all originally based entirely on a pickup with some extra seats, and that's what the original buyers of SUVs were actually after, was something truck based with extra seats. Now the market is full of four door pickups with upscale appointments, and there's no functional difference between an SUV and a four door pickup with a shell, and all those buyers that thought they needed an SUV have discovered that they actually want a four door pickup with a shell.
So you take away those two pieces of the market, and you're left with a very minor fraction of individuals that specifically want a traditional BOF live-axle SUV. The needs of everybody else can be satisfied with a crossover or a four door pickup, so that's what the auto makers are making.
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ben550
New member
Excellent post. I couldn't have said it better.
NoDak
Senior Member
and sadly I will probably fall into one of either of those groups.
my next vehicle will probably be a highlander Limited with Platinum Package or if I feel really daring a 4 door tundra (highly unlikely since it wont fit in the garage).
this 2014 or maybe the next gen limited will be my last bof suv. after that I don't think I will require the ability to go that far off the beaten path to require a 4runner due to getting older.
my next vehicle will probably be a highlander Limited with Platinum Package or if I feel really daring a 4 door tundra (highly unlikely since it wont fit in the garage).
this 2014 or maybe the next gen limited will be my last bof suv. after that I don't think I will require the ability to go that far off the beaten path to require a 4runner due to getting older.
KidVermicious
New member
There's nothing sad about that. Crossovers are designed to do something different than what SUVs are designed to do. I admire a man who knows what he needs and purchases a vehicle that suits those needs much more than a man who has to have the toughest most rugged-looking thing out there because it props up his self image.
There will still be full-size SUVs (Suburban, Expedition, etc) because there's still a need for truck-based rigs with an actual third row and still have cargo space. If Toyota keeps the 4Runner badge, they'll put it on the Sequoia. More likely I think that when they finally decide that they don't need a theoretically-midsize-but-actually-fullsize BOF SUV anymore that they just drop the name.
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