2019 SAS 5th gen Build
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honda250xtitan
New member
agreed....with 43's its a non issue for ground clearance lol plus itll be more reliable. i bet those tires would eat carrier bearings.
Jetboy
New member
I'd agree on loosing the carrier bearing unless it's helping to keep the drive shaft high and tight. The long rear shaft on a tundra for example needs a carrier for protection. I don't think the front shaft probably does on your 4R. Even with a low pinion diff.
Are you running a double cardan joint at the TC? I went back and looked at the mock up pics and it looks like a single u joint. It's always hard to tell from the pictures how bad the angles are. But lowering the TC outputs would help with those angles. Double cardan joints can also do a lot of good when you have high angle drivelines. The geometry gets a little more tricky if you do a single joint on one end and a double cardan on the other. That's how Toyota generally resolves those issues on its solid axle models. That was always an issue on front shafts in my past solid axle vehicles. My current FJ40 I built with double cardan joints on both shafts. I know high speed vibrations aren't likely on the list of things you're worried about. haha. But just an idea that might help with long service life by reducing the angle and binding forces on the u joints.
Good luck!
Are you running a double cardan joint at the TC? I went back and looked at the mock up pics and it looks like a single u joint. It's always hard to tell from the pictures how bad the angles are. But lowering the TC outputs would help with those angles. Double cardan joints can also do a lot of good when you have high angle drivelines. The geometry gets a little more tricky if you do a single joint on one end and a double cardan on the other. That's how Toyota generally resolves those issues on its solid axle models. That was always an issue on front shafts in my past solid axle vehicles. My current FJ40 I built with double cardan joints on both shafts. I know high speed vibrations aren't likely on the list of things you're worried about. haha. But just an idea that might help with long service life by reducing the angle and binding forces on the u joints.
Good luck!
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Originally we had the carrier bearing to keep it high and tight and keep it above the upper links. This kept the front shaft really short, which of course has limited the down travel. Do I really need 5"+ of more down travel in the front? Surely it will not hurt and make for some more fun.
At the moment I have single cardan drive shafts. In fact the rear shaft in there at the moment is the stock shaft that was lengthened and changed to 1410 u-joints. Once the atlas is put in we will have to get two new drive shafts not sure yet if we will go with single or double cardan yet. One step at a time for us at this point when we are so close to being 100% done. The angles when truck is on the ground is very good, but now looking at increased down travel will change things.
I have not tried the tires yet below 10# but yes they grip beyond belief and have potential to destroy a lot if not careful. We never intended on having these 43's or sticky mikey's so we are having go back and change things since we originally planned on 40"
Today we are taking out the springs and ordering new ones as what's in there is too soft. This is part of the reason for me having the issues with the bumps. This change today will come close to telling us if we go single or double cardan.
We need to fix the bump stop issues and that darn small rip in frame caused by it. We plated the frame a lot in the front and only a little in the back where we frenched the shock towers into the frame. that should all be done very soon and we will go back out for a second run with the truck. Probably back to Windrock or Harlan.
Sort list of things to do in no particular order:
1. fix 12 an line from steering res to pump, just need to make it a little longer to help with cooling.
2. Move gas tank forward a little forward and rotate charcoal canister to make room for rear winch, only because I own it and hate to see it sitting in cabinet.
3. close / dry in rear after the small amount of cutting we did...
4. exterior protection not sure what this means yet; armor, hybrid cage, combination. not sure yet.
5. trans cooler, maybe necessary maybe not. I think I will ere on the side of caution and have one put in. just need to find a place to put it. I'm thinking of using the howe heat exchanger or something like it in place a more traditional fan etc. I don't think we have a good place to put a fan....
6. at very end, abs sensors back in. Certainly not doing much if any highway driving but will do some small stuff around town (different set of wheels & tires). Can get speed from gps, but would be nice to not have all the lights on dash. Already have solution for steering light to be turned off from master tech at local toyota dealership. Also get the fuel gauge to work again. This is lots of little things which have no bearing on performance and just convenience.
It would be nice to be able to get two of the four cats put back in so I have a fighting chance to pass my emissions test. I have to get one in January but we have a "friend" to at least get it completed for '22.
If anyone what's specific photos of anything just let me know.
I hope to have more action videos up in new few weeks whenever we go out for next trip. Soon I hope to be able to be making much more. I have my tow vehicle and trailer now so not relying on others anymore.
At the moment I have single cardan drive shafts. In fact the rear shaft in there at the moment is the stock shaft that was lengthened and changed to 1410 u-joints. Once the atlas is put in we will have to get two new drive shafts not sure yet if we will go with single or double cardan yet. One step at a time for us at this point when we are so close to being 100% done. The angles when truck is on the ground is very good, but now looking at increased down travel will change things.
I have not tried the tires yet below 10# but yes they grip beyond belief and have potential to destroy a lot if not careful. We never intended on having these 43's or sticky mikey's so we are having go back and change things since we originally planned on 40"
Today we are taking out the springs and ordering new ones as what's in there is too soft. This is part of the reason for me having the issues with the bumps. This change today will come close to telling us if we go single or double cardan.
We need to fix the bump stop issues and that darn small rip in frame caused by it. We plated the frame a lot in the front and only a little in the back where we frenched the shock towers into the frame. that should all be done very soon and we will go back out for a second run with the truck. Probably back to Windrock or Harlan.
Sort list of things to do in no particular order:
1. fix 12 an line from steering res to pump, just need to make it a little longer to help with cooling.
2. Move gas tank forward a little forward and rotate charcoal canister to make room for rear winch, only because I own it and hate to see it sitting in cabinet.
3. close / dry in rear after the small amount of cutting we did...
4. exterior protection not sure what this means yet; armor, hybrid cage, combination. not sure yet.
5. trans cooler, maybe necessary maybe not. I think I will ere on the side of caution and have one put in. just need to find a place to put it. I'm thinking of using the howe heat exchanger or something like it in place a more traditional fan etc. I don't think we have a good place to put a fan....
6. at very end, abs sensors back in. Certainly not doing much if any highway driving but will do some small stuff around town (different set of wheels & tires). Can get speed from gps, but would be nice to not have all the lights on dash. Already have solution for steering light to be turned off from master tech at local toyota dealership. Also get the fuel gauge to work again. This is lots of little things which have no bearing on performance and just convenience.
It would be nice to be able to get two of the four cats put back in so I have a fighting chance to pass my emissions test. I have to get one in January but we have a "friend" to at least get it completed for '22.
If anyone what's specific photos of anything just let me know.
I hope to have more action videos up in new few weeks whenever we go out for next trip. Soon I hope to be able to be making much more. I have my tow vehicle and trailer now so not relying on others anymore.
My tires are not DOT.
You pushed the limit a lot which your 4R, now I will do the same with mine.
cbielat
Senior Member
My mistake on the stickies. Yeah man, I too had the plans for what you have going on. Acquired a 14 bolt for it but ended up selling before things got going. I'd love to have felt the 5th swapped.
it's something for sure, especially with these monster tires. I can't wait to get it back out for the second time finally in a few weeks. I took it easy my first time out and it was amazing. Still a lot to get used to, but I have plans to go lots of places next year. I'm to close to a lot of great wheeling places in eastern TN and have lots of customers who wheel in SoCal and Oregon that I want to go out with too.
The 14 bolts are awesome. I have the "new" version of the 14 bolt axles on my Ram 3500, so maybe in 20 years when it dies with 400k+ miles, I can use those for my project at the time.
Some photos from the last few days.
Extended bump pad so when compressed, the bump will stay on pad.
Plated entire frame from rear doors back on both sides: much stronger now.
Also have lighter of two springs out and will figure which weight to order and do so Monday. Now that we know the weight of the truck hopefully this time we nail it. It was just a bit to soft before.
Also wire brushed and painted everything which hadn't been touched before and second coat on all after that.
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Extended bump pad so when compressed, the bump will stay on pad.
Plated entire frame from rear doors back on both sides: much stronger now.
Also have lighter of two springs out and will figure which weight to order and do so Monday. Now that we know the weight of the truck hopefully this time we nail it. It was just a bit to soft before.
Also wire brushed and painted everything which hadn't been touched before and second coat on all after that.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I short update.
Last week while working on some small things we found that we had bad o-ring on one of the shocks. That was replaced yesterday and shocks put back on truck. Also after a misunderstanding with Howe we have drastically increased the length of the hose from reservoir to pump from less than 2' to nearly 9'. It's all done and just need one more fitting to have it driving again.
Plan is to have atlas installed very soon and go back to windrock around end of January. So very soon some more action videos.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Last week while working on some small things we found that we had bad o-ring on one of the shocks. That was replaced yesterday and shocks put back on truck. Also after a misunderstanding with Howe we have drastically increased the length of the hose from reservoir to pump from less than 2' to nearly 9'. It's all done and just need one more fitting to have it driving again.
Plan is to have atlas installed very soon and go back to windrock around end of January. So very soon some more action videos.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Did some wheeling today on a friend's property in Lenoir, NC. Some fun rock gardens and big wet rock climbs. I hope to put a video together tomorrow.
Sadly and no cause known when done today and driving back the shaft on passenger front shock broke. These are my 16" Radflos and only the third time out with them. Very confusing and highly disappointing for us for sure.
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Sadly and no cause known when done today and driving back the shaft on passenger front shock broke. These are my 16" Radflos and only the third time out with them. Very confusing and highly disappointing for us for sure.
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Rock Crawling on shack down run
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Yesterday was our first shake down run after fixing bad o-ring in shock and changing springs to 350+300 in front and 300+300 in rear. Ride height is a little higher than before with lighter springs but a much better ride. Today was really about making sure everything works well together before going out on a much longer run. we are very close.
If you are going to watch here and just want to see final successful climb jump to about 4:45 mark.
I hope to have some more videos up soon to of what we did yesterday.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NhXMbJaNb2E" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Yesterday was our first shake down run after fixing bad o-ring in shock and changing springs to 350+300 in front and 300+300 in rear. Ride height is a little higher than before with lighter springs but a much better ride. Today was really about making sure everything works well together before going out on a much longer run. we are very close.
If you are going to watch here and just want to see final successful climb jump to about 4:45 mark.
I hope to have some more videos up soon to of what we did yesterday.
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Small Rock Garden climb
Just a small 400' or so long rock garden to test suspension movement.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8StcU48Y3kw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Just a small 400' or so long rock garden to test suspension movement.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8StcU48Y3kw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SNE_jASG1y8" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
another angle from same video as above. Here we have both the ascent and descent.
another angle from same video as above. Here we have both the ascent and descent.
Maybe, this is why we are doing these test runs. We confirmed yesterday that under maximum compression the spring is just barely touching the steering knuckle. This was enough.
We believe after watching the one video on the rock climbing several times at the very end where the truck is flexing a lot back to back and up and down to get up, we believe once I stop you can here the shock breaking.
Nobody said putting the first 4 link in a 5th gen was going to be easy, but we are very very close to being done. It is unbelievably capable, and yes I'm 0-2 so far in terms of breaking. It would be unreasonable to expect perfection from beginning on something like this.
Below you can see the evidence of the spring where it hit the steering knuckle. We are investigating a taller bottom retainer which would clear the knuckle under compression pitched to one side or the other.
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It's time to install the atlas.
Ended up still requiring the two piece front shaft. Otherwise would of had to drop the atlas 5" and that is just not going to happen.
Right now it's clocked 23° and next rotation is 16° but it looks like it will be too much as the 1410's are about 2" larger than stock.
Now that it's just about in we can get the driveshafts ordered.
In separate news both front shocks sent out for rebuild just to be 100% certain. They will be rebuilt with the taller lower retainers to avoid hitting steering knuckle.
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Ended up still requiring the two piece front shaft. Otherwise would of had to drop the atlas 5" and that is just not going to happen.
Right now it's clocked 23° and next rotation is 16° but it looks like it will be too much as the 1410's are about 2" larger than stock.
Now that it's just about in we can get the driveshafts ordered.
In separate news both front shocks sent out for rebuild just to be 100% certain. They will be rebuilt with the taller lower retainers to avoid hitting steering knuckle.
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
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Sorry it's been a while but progress is happening.
The front shocks are back from being rebuilt and now with taller lower retainers. Even with them we have moved the lower shock mounts in just a little to be 110° certain we had zero issues. We thought we had zero issues the first time and the ever so slight interference of spring with steering knuckle, which barely nicked the paint on the spring, broke a shock shaft, and we don't want to do that again.
So that is all behind us and now finishing up the atlas install and awaiting driveshafts to be remade now that atlas is in. Today working on getting the triple sticks situated.
I'm very hopeful to be back out soon. I should have it at the Shamrock Shakedown in mid March at Windrock and in TX for the Toyota Jamboree the end of April.
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The front shocks are back from being rebuilt and now with taller lower retainers. Even with them we have moved the lower shock mounts in just a little to be 110° certain we had zero issues. We thought we had zero issues the first time and the ever so slight interference of spring with steering knuckle, which barely nicked the paint on the spring, broke a shock shaft, and we don't want to do that again.
So that is all behind us and now finishing up the atlas install and awaiting driveshafts to be remade now that atlas is in. Today working on getting the triple sticks situated.
I'm very hopeful to be back out soon. I should have it at the Shamrock Shakedown in mid March at Windrock and in TX for the Toyota Jamboree the end of April.
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Just a quick update as I have not done in a while and sorry no photos today. I went up Budbuilt on Friday and today. Since the photos from above about 3 weeks ago we have done the following:
1. installed the atlas and shifters. had to cut a hole in the front of the cab to route two cables in and then back to shifters.
2. installed new crossmember (actually made for LX460) just behind under the back of the atlas and made a skid plate to protect the atlas
3. Installed a skid if you will around the fuel pump on the frame rail. this is actually a recycled part from an LC200.
4. Rear drive shaft and stub shaft with carrier bearing came back this morning from Carolina Driveline and have been re-installed. The rear was shortened due to the atlas and 1410 put on atlas side. The stub shaft was also shortened and 1410 put on the atlas side.
5. Most exciting; I installed my new washer fluid bottle. I haven't had one for a while. I found a bottle from a plastics mfg in the midwest. I have it mounted on the passenger side between my remote oil filter and power steering reservoir, or in other words right behind the headlight.
If I'm healthy enough I will definitely have it out at Windrock this Saturday and Sunday. We have GoPro mounts set up for both axles and another somewhere else on top, so I should have some great videos to post soon.
1. installed the atlas and shifters. had to cut a hole in the front of the cab to route two cables in and then back to shifters.
2. installed new crossmember (actually made for LX460) just behind under the back of the atlas and made a skid plate to protect the atlas
3. Installed a skid if you will around the fuel pump on the frame rail. this is actually a recycled part from an LC200.
4. Rear drive shaft and stub shaft with carrier bearing came back this morning from Carolina Driveline and have been re-installed. The rear was shortened due to the atlas and 1410 put on atlas side. The stub shaft was also shortened and 1410 put on the atlas side.
5. Most exciting; I installed my new washer fluid bottle. I haven't had one for a while. I found a bottle from a plastics mfg in the midwest. I have it mounted on the passenger side between my remote oil filter and power steering reservoir, or in other words right behind the headlight.
If I'm healthy enough I will definitely have it out at Windrock this Saturday and Sunday. We have GoPro mounts set up for both axles and another somewhere else on top, so I should have some great videos to post soon.
