4 vs 6

[slisdexia]

I'm posing a question to everyone who has any answers
I'm looking to buy a 1st generation 4Runner.
1. IFS vs solid axle and why
2. Rebuilt engine or not and why
3. 22r vs 3.0 V6 and why
I know the 4 banger will last through the apocalypse but I don't know anything about those 6 cylinders besides the obvious like more power, bit worse mileage and less under hood room. My first yota so I don't know the little things(whats a birfield?).
I've been in love with these things ever since I knew what they are and now have the chance to get one, just wish gas wasn't so #$^@in' expensive. Also, any one on here have on they want to get rid of? Or anyone in the Fort Collins area want to do some Froadin?
It's going to be manual, I know that much for sure, and hopefully manual everything.(tranny, windows, mirrors, hubs) I'm sick of all this electric crap breaking!

 

[ProMed]

You should be able to get many more replies if you post this in the correct forum..

 

[peter78]

You should be able to get many more replies if you post this in the correct forum..

I am not sure how he even posted in the April T4ROTM section, but that can easily be corrected.

I am putting it in the classic tr4 forum.

 

[Sidney]

You want"

1. Solid axle because it's simpler,more,reliable,quiter,less parts,easier to do basic repairs and maintenance on your truck.Also if off-roading with stock parts better angles of incline and easier to give it suspension or body lift if you decide to mod it

2.Toyota engines are some of the best in the world particularly the R series specifically the 22R-E (fuel injected) and are more reliable than rebuilts and last longer.Cheaper to buy a used healthy 22R-E ($100-300 any more is a rip off) than to buy a rebuilt $905+ with core.

3. V6's had headgasket and oil sludge recalls,less fuel efficient,only "slight" more power than the 22R-E,engine fills engine bay so difficult to work in engine and around,special tools to adjust shims and valves.Plus engine parts that commonly fail like idler bearings seizing,etc.

My opinion is buy this:

1985 Toyota 4-Runner with 4 cyl (22R-E=fuel injected engine), W56 Aisin (gear/shaft driven) tranny (very strong 5 speed manual tranny, this trany is for Aisin manual locking hubs or as Toyota calls it "free wheeling hubs"). I agree with you to purchase one with everything being manual (tranny, windows, mirrors, hubs).

Place a wanted ad in your local Craigslist, local free buy & sell classified papers, websites and community cork/tack boards found in public places.

Sidney

 

[fourwd1]

Don't let someone tell you what "You want", get the facts and decide for yourself.

I have 2 1st gen Runners, a seriously built 84 SR5 rockcrawler and a cherry, stock 89 SR5.

Being SR5s they have all the electronic power stuff, and it all works on both. I certainly wouldn't make that an issue whening buying.

The 84 is SFA and the 89 is IFS. Unless you going to do some heavy duty offroading, IFS will be fine. And even then you can do a lot of wheeling with IFS if you know whay you're doing.

The 84 is carbed (no EFI in 84) and the 89 is EFI. Both are great engines, and contrary to what some think, carbs can work at extreme angles :biggrin2: But the EFI does have more HP.

Any Runner you find that you like and is in good shape and running well should be good. Even a V6 model would have had any HG issues addressed by this time.

 

[slisdexia]

I guess I'm really not all that worried about electrics, but I had a Subaru that I had to put thousands of dollars into, and a Ranger with 4wd problems that were both related to electrics. Sounds like IFS vs solid isn't an issue either. Just how bad is the working room with a v6 though? If they are so reliable wouldn't that be a non-issue? I'm looking at an 89 right now that's everything I want, the only sticking point so far I guess would be the v6.

 

[slisdexia]

also, how would I go about finding it a potential victim has all the Aisin equipment? sounds like the type of truck I could drive

 

[ovrrdrive]

Originally posted by slisdexia
I'm posing a question to everyone who has any answers
I'm looking to buy a 1st generation 4Runner.


1. IFS vs solid axle and why

Impossible to answer without knowing where you want to wheel and how you drive. I can tell you though that IFS is fine for 99% of all wheeling. When you're ready for SFA you'll know it.

2. Rebuilt engine or not and why

Rebuilt engines suck. Period.

The quality of the aftermarket parts is no where near the OEM stuff, and I'm a firm believer that even if you rebuild one with OEM you will never have an engine that is as reliable as the original was. If you can go 200k on the original motor, plan on 50-100k on a rebuild. Less if you use the aftermarket.

I'm on my 3rd motor.

3. 22r vs 3.0 V6 and why

I'm going to have to say 22RE here even though I haven't had what I would say was great luck with it. The 3VZE just has too bad of a reputation for blowing head gaskets, and the repair costs for new ones will cost more than buying a completely rebuilt engine and dropping it in. And then you have a rebuilt motor and I already stated my views on that...

 

[the_dingman]

I'm no expert, but from most of what I've heard, the power difference between the 3VZE and the 22R is so small that the reliability and ease of repair far outweighs the minor performance increase.

I also must say that I enjoy how easy it is to find parts for cheap for the 22RE, as it was a pretty common engine for Toyota, I don't think the 3VZE was made for very long.

 

[rafal_c]

was the head gasket recall for the 3VZE world wide? or just in the states? whats the oil sludge problem you're talking about?

and i agree with fourwd1's comments, but i'm hella happy with my 3vze, i recommend them to anyone that enjoys offroading semi-regularily, i wouldnt recommend it as purely a city car though!!!

 

[kahuna00]

Having had a few different Yotas, the 22R is my preference due to ease of maintenance, parts, and dependability. If you plan on doing suspension mods the solid front axle is a must, but the IFS works just fine as well. I presently have an 88 V6 4runner with k177 miles and it has been solid, no sludge or other problems to date ......

 

[slisdexia]

The 4Runner got my feet wet in off roading, met two friends who had them down in Moab one spring, so that's two good counts for the Runner. Well make that like 5 or 6 but as far as me off roading with it, I have no plans per se. I've always just takin whatever vehicle I had off road whether it was one of my Rangers or my 95 pile of I mean Subaru. Within reason of course, I know you can't ford streams with the Suby. I would just be starting in the off road world if/when I decide to do anything to the Toyota.

 

[Sidney]

was the head gasket recall for the 3VZE world wide? or just in the states? whats the oil sludge problem you're talking about?

and i agree with fourwd1's comments, but i'm hella happy with my 3vze, i recommend them to anyone that enjoys offroading semi-regularily, i wouldnt recommend it as purely a city car though!!!

I don't know if the headgasket recall on the 3VZE engine (used in some of the 1988-95 Toyota 4-Runners & pickups) is recalled worldwide,but the sites below have the actual documents and more insight into the headgasket and oil slude recalls.

Story (rumor) as to why 3VZE headgaskets failed was that Toyota due to outside pressure no longer wanted to expose assambly line employees in the Japan location factories to asbesto type headgaskets so they tried a new non asbesto type.

22 Toyota head gasket & oil sludge recall sites:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216122
http://www.brian894x4.com/V6headgasketrecall.html
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/4runner/topqs.html
http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/4runner_faq.htm
http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/Toyota_Truck.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/60/94601650.html
http://www.yotarepair.com/Campaigns.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer/3.4v6_headgasket.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/t100/3.4v6_headgasket.htm
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/special-service-campaign-90-95-4runners-89-95-trucks-93-98-t100s-66901/
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/5SFECoolantLeaksTB.pdf
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Toyota Sludge
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2002/04/03-1-consumer.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskettsb.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskets.msnw
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic100052.htm
http://www.autosite.com/content/own/service/index.cfm/action/recalls
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9241475/

Sidney

 

[peter78]

I clicked on a few of those sites and it seems to show the newer 2.2 and 3.0 liter engines had the sludge problem. Mainly the engines found in the Camry and other cars and mini-vans, not the truck engines.

I am sure older engines could have sludge but the newer engines after 97 had the problems even without abuse.

 

[rafal_c]

I don't know if the headgasket recall on the 3VZE engine (used in some of the 1988-95 Toyota 4-Runners & pickups) is recalled worldwide,but the sites below have the actual documents and more insight into the headgasket and oil slude recalls.

Story (rumor) as to why 3VZE headgaskets failed was that Toyota due to outside pressure no longer wanted to expose assambly line employees in the Japan location factories to asbesto type headgaskets so they tried a new non asbesto type.

22 Toyota head gasket & oil sludge recall sites:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216122
http://www.brian894x4.com/V6headgasketrecall.html
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/4runner/topqs.html
http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/4runner_faq.htm
http://www.alldata.com/recall/make/Toyota_Truck.html
http://www.alldata.com/TSB/60/94601650.html
http://www.yotarepair.com/Campaigns.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.off-road.com/~bibelheimer/3.4v6_headgasket.html (3.4L,V6,headgasket recall)
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/t100/3.4v6_headgasket.htm
http://www.yotatech.com/f116/special-service-campaign-90-95-4runners-89-95-trucks-93-98-t100s-66901/
http://www.jasperengines.com/pdf/5SFECoolantLeaksTB.pdf
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Toyota Sludge
http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2002/04/03-1-consumer.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm
http://www.petitiononline.com/TMC2003/petition.html
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskettsb.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/headgaskets.msnw
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic100052.htm
http://www.autosite.com/content/own/service/index.cfm/action/recalls
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9241475/

Sidney

 

[tlcruiser66]

My opinion is buy this:

1985 Toyota 4-Runner with 4 cyl (22R-E=fuel injected engine), W56 Aisin (gear/shaft driven) tranny (very strong 5 speed manual tranny, this trany is for Aisin manual locking hubs or as Toyota calls it "free wheeling hubs"). I agree with you to purchase one with everything being manual (tranny, windows, mirrors, hubs).

Thats exactly what I just picked up

Anyways,

1. It all depends on what you'll be using it for IFS is much nicer if you're only looking for a DD, if you want to wheel and have more fun, get the 84 or 85. Or you could get whatever you want and just do a SAS on it.

2. It all depends on who's doing the rebuild, a good rebuilder can build an engine that'll last 500K, a crappy rebuild will break as soon as you start it.

3. No question here, the 22RE is the only choice, the 3.0s are garbage, the HP and Torque gains you'll see just aren't worth the added headache of having to constantly repair it.

Hope this helps

 

[jrs2]

22RE for sure. When I bought my 90 new I test drove both the 4 and 6 cyl. Could not see where the 6 was that much better than the 4 plus it was almost $3K difference (in 1990 dollars) in price. Then years later when the 6 cyl had problems I was really glad I made that choice.