$40,000 in Gas

[KCcarguy]

CO2 emissions issue is not debatable, besides if you like to discuss it, you are welcome to pm me and I will respectfully introduce myself and have a conversation.
As far as I know, Toyota plans to introduce 14 new hybrids by 2015. I am ignorant of car technology and its jargon of direct injection etc, but it seems the technology is catching up with the demands of reducing emissions.
Cheers

First of all, whose demanding it? Consumers or Big Brother? Secondly, I think your "not debatable" line is pretty ridiculous.....Can I pull that card any time I don't want to get into debate with someone and have to justify my position?

 

[phillyd2]

After a lesson at school last Dec. my kid was suddenly concerned about our carbon foot print so I turned the heat, lights and TV off for her. Within one hour she was no longer concerned.

All this reminds me of Al Gore taking a SUV from his mansion to a private plane to fly to a conference on global warming. :der:

 

[Thai]

Most SUVs that I researched regardless of whether it is a BOF or uni-body have mileage between 18-25mpg.. especially in the mid size SUV segment.

This is true...unless you want to get a 4-cyl engine such as Subaru Outback which gets 24/30 mpg (city/hwy) with the 2.5L 4-cyl.

All of the above is true regarding SUVs, practicality, etc..

BUT, the bigger question is...do you REALLY need a 4runner for what you use it for? Sure, some on this forum off-road...and fewer use it as a towing machine. Good reason for a 4runner. But, in reality, what percentage of 4runner owners take it off-road (or tow frequently)? (This forum makeup is far from reality in that perspective.) Why do 4runners have 2wd models?

To be honest, that was why I got rid of the G500...and have stayed away from that type of SUV (low-range capable). FOR ME, having a G500 was useless. I don't tow...and if I ever did, then it is far easier to rent something to tow it. Home Depot charges $30/day i believe. And with a growing family and city life, getting to an off-road park is painful. My G500 became more of a garage watchdog than a vehicle that I have a use for. Yeah, it was cool to have one...but it just sat there in my garage collecting dust and maintenance costs. And I promised myself that I will never buy a car as a status symbol.

Nowadays, as a replacement, I look for vehicles that has good AWD with decent ground clearance (all-weather travels), practical (cargo space and room for carseats), and safe. Modern 4-cyl has become perfectly acceptable to me...maybe because Prius is my other car! The newer 4-cyl are pretty nice and responsive. Fuel economy is important, not because of green crap, but because it hits my wallet directly. I will likely end up buying more Subaru Outback types than I will 4runner-types.

 

[Bitsphere]

First of all, whose demanding it? Consumers or Big Brother? Secondly, I think your "not debatable" line is pretty ridiculous.....Can I pull that card any time I don't want to get into debate with someone and have to justify my position?

KCcarguy, I don't want to address the dismissive tone in calling it offtopic and ridiculous, as it will really get offtopic, but will address it in an informative way for the benefit of others, just as I am benefitting from the spread of knowledge around here.
It has nothing to do with big brother. In fact big brother has the worst track record regarding this. Hard data provided and backed up by Scientists worldwide can hardly be ignored. I work in the building construction industry, which is the biggest contributor of GHG, and I design buildings that make a difference. Car manufacturers have similarly addressed building greener cars very aggressively, after resisting it for so long, in denying the facts and treating it as opinions.
For those of you who are Scientists or working in Scientific fields know well that opinions can be listened to, debated, and disputed, but do not count. Only factual data do.
Whether we like it or not, it is very likely if the 4Runner remains in production, will go through this and gets greener one way or another.

 

[JayceeP]

I find it odd that big supporters of the green movemnt don't see it as an infringement on their liberties. Anyway, think about what you might spend on, say, feeding your dog. Also, there are some claims that a small size dog consumes more resources than an SUV. Not so green now are we compact car driver?

To me, a vehicle is entertainment. I bought my Jeep because the top and doors came off, it was fun in the summer, and rugged. I bought the 4Runner because it's bigger, better on gas, and has all the bells and whistles my Jeep didn't have. I have wanted one since I got out of university.

As long as you commit to saving some of your money off the top (payroll deductions) why should it matter whether you spend 40k on gas in 10 years, 20k feeding a dog, or thousands more movie theatres. As long as you are spending your money (or the bank's) on what you want- that's all that matters.

 

[Thai]

Also, there are some claims that a small size dog consumes more resources than an SUV. Not so green now are we compact car driver?

I like the rest of your post...but this statement is kinda funky. You're comparing a living best friend (to some) to a car. Ok. If someone is crazy about dogs, then they don't have much alternative...is there a "hybrid" dog that runs on batteries? There are alternatives to SUVs that are more economical. As I wrote above, YES, for those that off-road or tow, 4runners are great. But, there are plenty of folks out there that buy 4runners simply to look cool, to avoid wagon insults, to feel that they are manly, etc.. To THESE folks, I say...whatever floats your boat, but don't complain about it when your wallet gets lighter due to your ego.

BTW, "AWD" is kinda odd to use to describe 4runner's 4wd system...kinda insulting!

 

[scanny]

CO2 emissions issue is not debatable, besides if you like to discuss it, you are welcome to pm me and I will respectfully introduce myself and have a conversation.
As far as I know, Toyota plans to introduce 14 new hybrids by 2015. I am ignorant of car technology and its jargon of direct injection etc, but it seems the technology is catching up with the demands of reducing emissions.
Cheers

There is no such thing as not debatable issue.

I hope that Hybrid or EV technology will advance in the future, but it's not there yet for use other than in mild climates in the city traffic. IMHO of course.

 

[agjake01]

I want to take my 4runner to 200k, and just realized that at current prices that's around $40k on gas. Probably much higher if prices keep going up. At least it's a Toyota so should save a lot of money in repairs and not needing to upgrade as soon - but does anyone else feel weird about that too? That's a whole second 4Runner spent just on gas!

Life offers no guarantee that any of us will be here to see $40k spent on gas or 200k reflected on the OD. You can't take it with you. So I say enjoy what you have, strive for what you want, and keep things in perspective!

 

[1engineer]

KCcarguy, I don't want to address the dismissive tone in calling it offtopic and ridiculous, as it will really get offtopic, but will address it in an informative way for the benefit of others, just as I am benefitting from the spread of knowledge around here.
It has nothing to do with big brother. In fact big brother has the worst track record regarding this. Hard data provided and backed up by Scientists worldwide can hardly be ignored. I work in the building construction industry, which is the biggest contributor of GHG, and I design buildings that make a difference. Car manufacturers have similarly addressed building greener cars very aggressively, after resisting it for so long, in denying the facts and treating it as opinions.
For those of you who are Scientists or working in Scientific fields know well that opinions can be listened to, debated, and disputed, but do not count. Only factual data do.
Whether we like it or not, it is very likely if the 4Runner remains in production, will go through this and gets greener one way or another.

The CO2 debate has no place in this thread period. I told you to start a thread in the "Off Topic" section of this website because it has nothing to do with a 5th gen 4Runner specifically. I did not "dismiss" you or the topic, but I am growing weary of both because 99% of you cannot get beyond the four or five talking points of Michael Manns or Al Gore. Again: start a thread in the "Off Topic" section and let the unwinnable debate begin.

Back on topic shall we?

 

[Thai]

I think that a reasonably priced 4-cyl diesel 4runner would help with this financial topic.... (Hint: Jeep sucks for pricing the diesel well beyond logic!)

 

[JayceeP]

I like the rest of your post...but this statement is kinda funky. You're comparing a living best friend (to some) to a car. Ok. If someone is crazy about dogs, then they don't have much alternative...is there a "hybrid" dog that runs on batteries? There are alternatives to SUVs that are more economical. As I wrote above, YES, for those that off-road or tow, 4runners are great. But, there are plenty of folks out there that buy 4runners simply to look cool, to avoid wagon insults, to feel that they are manly, etc.. To THESE folks, I say...whatever floats your boat, but don't complain about it when your wallet gets lighter due to your ego.

BTW, "AWD" is kinda odd to use to describe 4runner's 4wd system...kinda insulting!

I don't think it's about alternatives, it's about choices. Someone who is "green" because they care about the enviornment and own a Kia but also owns a dog may not be any greener than the solo guy driving a 4Runner or any other SUV. The argument for this derives from the fact that pet food is resource and land intensive as they are primarily a meat based diet. Raising cattle or any other animal requires significant amounts of deforested land, water, food, etc etc. Anyway- I thought it was an interesting argument. I am not a scientist nor pretend to be so I am not saying this claim is 100% accurate but when you think about it I feel there would be SOME legitimacy to it. Food for thought I guess!

I bought a 4Runner out of pure choice. I don't need one, nor does any one else here for that matter- honestly you don't. Just because you "haul" stuff doesn't mean you need one. You haul stuff out of choice. You go to the woods out of choice. You need a 4Runner because you choose to need it.

Also, I suppose I didn't really give much thought about the proper terminology for my full-time 4wd. Rookie mistake. I will correct.

 

[flyrv9]

It will take at least 20 years for me to drive 200K miles - probably longer. By then I'll be old enough not to care. I'll be happy to know who I am and what planet I'm on! We didn't get our 4runner for the mileage anyway.

 

[LI4runner]

Some folks in this thread seem enthusiastic about their ROI. I'm a car enthusiast...it's one of my vices and I consider fuel prices a just an admission fee to enjoy what I drive. My trucks see beach driving and my cars see track days.

No one that enjoys the 4 runner experience will be swayed that their trips to 7-Eleven for coffee will be just as enjoyable in a Prius. And I can't imagine my inlaw's would trade their Prius in for a Raptor if I suggested it is safer since they are higher up on the road.

I do see a point being made in here through. If you cringe every time you fill up the tank and don't use the truck for anything other than groceries, maybe it was the wrong purchase. But now I'm contradicting myself. Hmmm, well....a 4 Runner will get you more chicks than a Prius! Wooo :guitar2:

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I want to take my 4runner to 200k, and just realized that at current prices that's around $40k on gas. Probably much higher if prices keep going up. At least it's a Toyota so should save a lot of money in repairs and not needing to upgrade as soon - but does anyone else feel weird about that too? That's a whole second 4Runner spent just on gas!

If it makes you feel any better... this is basing your bill on current gas prices I'm assuming and doesn't take into account that prices may increase :bounce:

On the flip side if you were driving a 6.2 Ford Raptor, assuming gas was $3.50, you would spend: $63,636.36... at 11 mpg combined.

 

[KCcarguy]

Whether we like it or not, it is very likely if the 4Runner remains in production, will go through this and gets greener one way or another.

I sincerely hope it does get "greener", so long as it retains its capability. Otherwise, what's the point?

This is true...unless you want to get a 4-cyl engine such as Subaru Outback which gets 24/30 mpg (city/hwy) with the 2.5L 4-cyl.

All of the above is true regarding SUVs, practicality, etc..

BUT, the bigger question is...do you REALLY need a 4runner for what you use it for? Sure, some on this forum off-road...and fewer use it as a towing machine. Good reason for a 4runner. But, in reality, what percentage of 4runner owners take it off-road (or tow frequently)? (This forum makeup is far from reality in that perspective.) Why do 4runners have 2wd models?

To be honest, that was why I got rid of the G500...and have stayed away from that type of SUV (low-range capable). FOR ME, having a G500 was useless. I don't tow...and if I ever did, then it is far easier to rent something to tow it. Home Depot charges $30/day i believe. And with a growing family and city life, getting to an off-road park is painful. My G500 became more of a garage watchdog than a vehicle that I have a use for. Yeah, it was cool to have one...but it just sat there in my garage collecting dust and maintenance costs. And I promised myself that I will never buy a car as a status symbol.

Nowadays, as a replacement, I look for vehicles that has good AWD with decent ground clearance (all-weather travels), practical (cargo space and room for carseats), and safe. Modern 4-cyl has become perfectly acceptable to me...maybe because Prius is my other car! The newer 4-cyl are pretty nice and responsive. Fuel economy is important, not because of green crap, but because it hits my wallet directly. I will likely end up buying more Subaru Outback types than I will 4runner-types.

I absolutely agree Thai. But knowing you, I would also guess that you support a person having the freedom to choose their own vehicle rather than be effectively forced to buy something.

I really don't need all the capability my 4runner has 90% of the time. That's why mine will eventually be retired as a DD. Fact is, most of us only have one vehicle (or can only afford one payment) and we need one that can do all the things our personal lifestyles require....even if it is a rare occurance. Until "green" technology can reliably provide such a vehicle, we have to do what we have to do.

 

[JayG]

I don't care for how hybrids drive. My good friend wanted a 4runner, but he has no sack and his wife made him get a hybrid Highlander that he affectionately calls "the golf cart". I have ridden in it and it does remind me of a golf cart....albeit a $40k golf cart.

 

[Thai]

As I wrote above, YES, for those that off-road or tow, 4runners are great. But, there are plenty of folks out there that buy 4runners simply to look cool, to avoid wagon insults, to feel that they are manly, etc.. To THESE folks, I say...whatever floats your boat, but don't complain about it when your wallet gets lighter due to your ego.

I absolutely agree Thai. But knowing you, I would also guess that you support a person having the freedom to choose their own vehicle rather than be effectively forced to buy something.

Until "green" technology can reliably provide such a vehicle, we have to do what we have to do.

KC, most definitely! See my quote above from earlier post. I don't care WHAT you drive...just don't complain to me about it when gas prices go up. Oh no, I am not being a jerk because I HAVE been down that road (see 4runner, G500, etc. that I have owned)...but it is something that I have learned.

I don't care for how hybrids drive. My good friend wanted a 4runner, but he has no sack and his wife made him get a hybrid Highlander that he affectionately calls "the golf cart". I have ridden in it and it does remind me of a golf cart....albeit a $40k golf cart.

Huh? Hybrids nowadays drive just like a regular car. Maybe you (and your friend) just don't like HIGHLANDER as a vehicle.

 

[JayG]

KC, most definitely! See my quote above from earlier post. I don't care WHAT you drive...just don't complain to me about it when gas prices go up. Oh no, I am not being a jerk because I HAVE been down that road (see 4runner, G500, etc. that I have owned)...but it is something that I have learned.



Huh? Hybrids nowadays drive just like a regular car. Maybe you (and your friend) just don't like HIGHLANDER as a vehicle.

We can agree to disagree. When he first made the golf cart comment to me I laughed. Then I took a ride in it and I understood where he was coming from. It did remind me of a golf cart as did the Prius. Not saying they are not a good vehicle, but that is what it reminded me of. I'm used to higher performance cars though so I'm biased. Coming form a 2010 SS Camaro it even took me awhile to get used to the 4runner.

 

[Thai]

We can agree to disagree. When he first made the golf cart comment to me I laughed. Then I took a ride in it and I understood where he was coming from. It did remind me of a golf cart as did the Prius. Not saying they are not a good vehicle, but that is what it reminded me of. I'm used to higher performance cars though so I'm biased. Coming form a 2010 SS Camaro it even took me awhile to get used to the 4runner.

I understand...but a modern hybrid highlander drives just like a regular highlander. That's my point. Coming from a Camaro, I understand your point...but I am not sure that hybrid technology had anything to do with your perspective. I believe that the Highlander hybrid comes with V6 + hybrid tech...so, it ain't underpowered in its class. In fact, I think that Highlander Hybrid is faster than the gas Highlander.

 

[Bitsphere]

I sincerely hope it does get "greener", so long as it retains its capability. Otherwise, what's the point?

Being green is not limited to emissions, but glad to hear your point nonetheless.
Here is what it means to be green in building construction, and I think it is the same in car manufacturing.
Being green means:
1. Efficiency
2. Durability
3. Low embodied energy
4. Lower environmental impact
5. Less or no air-borne pollutants

In cars, I am not an expert, but it probably is easy to see where that may apply. Better fuel consumption, lower emissions, longer vehicle life, environmentally friendly finishing material, more power for less energy, higher safety standards, etc..
What to hate about that?