4H Difference in '04 and '16 SR5 4WD

Salvo Jimmy

Member
I tried several times to get a straight answer from Toyota on this question.

The owners manual for the '04 said 4H was fine for dry pavement. The owners manual for the '16 says not. Why the difference? All I could get from Toyota was basically "that is what we recommend". I could get nothing definitive.

Any thoughts on this???
 
Register to hide this ad
SR5 & Trail & Pro = No Center Diff
Limited = Center Diff

To expand on this:

Part-time 4WD will provide a 50/50 power split to the front/rear wheels when 4WD is engaged. This means that if you are on dry pavement, the only safe way to have 4WD engaged is in a straight line. Once you start turning on a high traction surface you will feel it is difficult to do so. This is intended and is a sign you are causing lots strain/binding (don't do it).

AWD vehicles have a center differential that is unlocked on the street to allow for uneven distribution of power and is what allows turns on high traction surfaces without any difficulty or possibility of damage to the vehicle. When the center diff is locked, the power distribution is even just like a part-time with 4WD engaged would be.
 
So the difference is the '04 had a center diff and '16 does not. ?

How could you not know what type of 4WD system your '04 had?

Some (most) of the 4th gen 4Runners had full time 4WD that has a center differential. Some had part time 4WD.

The 5th gen SR5, TE and TRD Pro all have part time 4WD. The LE has full time 4WD with a center differential.

If you go here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...ner-owner-need-help-searching-start-here.html you can learn all about the different 4WD systems and a lot about the 4Runner in general.
 
I know exactly what the '04 had. Was just not that familiar with this new '16 yet.

Sorry I asked. Interesting that 4 tries with Toyota was no help.

Did you talk to Toyota proper or a Toyota dealer? Two entirely different worlds. The dealer's job is to sell you a vehicle. That's all.

Don't be sorry. Ask away! Just maybe put a bit more info in your OP so people can help.
 
I know exactly what the '04 had. Was just not that familiar with this new '16 yet.

Sorry I asked. Interesting that 4 tries with Toyota was no help.

Typical dealer. I bought a new FJ in 07 At the first service I asked what the propeller shaft was. The Service Manager had no idea what I was talking about. Pretty scary. In December 16, shopping at Toyota of Greenville (SC) I asked what the KDSS actually did. The rep told me I should google it!
 
To the OP. Don't be afraid to put it in 4Hi on pavement sometimes. This is good to keep the transfer case shifter, actuator and front axle mechanism from binding down the road. It also helps keep the system lubed. Don't go doing parking lot donuts in it, but you'll be fine with some turning. I've been on miles of slickrock with incredible traction in Moab and the tires are barking and slipping through every turn and no damage to the transfer case.
 
Did you talk to Toyota proper or a Toyota dealer? Two entirely different worlds. The dealer's job is to sell you a vehicle. That's all.

Don't be sorry. Ask away! Just maybe put a bit more info in your OP so people can help.

I did multiple emails over days with Toyota proper. I knew better than try a dealer.
 
Typical dealer. I bought a new FJ in 07 At the first service I asked what the propeller shaft was. The Service Manager had no idea what I was talking about. Pretty scary. In December 16, shopping at Toyota of Greenville (SC) I asked what the KDSS actually did. The rep told me I should google it!

I was at a dealer last weekend and had to explain what kdss was to the sales rep. The guy had never heard of it before.
 
To the OP. Don't be afraid to put it in 4Hi on pavement sometimes. This is good to keep the transfer case shifter, actuator and front axle mechanism from binding down the road. It also helps keep the system lubed. Don't go doing parking lot donuts in it, but you'll be fine with some turning. I've been on miles of slickrock with incredible traction in Moab and the tires are barking and slipping through every turn and no damage to the transfer case.

Exactly why I was quizzing Toyota proper. With the '04 I would run 10 or so miles couple times a month on pavement in 4H and then go to a big nearly empty parking lot and exercise 4H and 4LO with center diff locked in straight lines. And the transfer case on the '04 failed at 150K miles last Oct. Hence why a '16.

So I guess I'll just do the parking lot for all 4WD exercising on the '16. No biggy since that is only needed infrequently as I get plenty of sand miles most of the year.
 
To be clear here, the guys are referring to the Torsen T3 Center Differential that is absent in all 5th gens save for the Limited. It's a "torque-sensing" type that diverts power front to rear. This made the 4th gens handle very well in 4Hi on the pavement and didn't result in as much binding up as other Part-Time/Full-Time 4WD systems.
 
I was at a dealer last weekend and had to explain what kdss was to the sales rep. The guy had never heard of it before.

LOL reading theses things make me both sad and feel funny. I switched from my dealer where I got the truck cause the dumb tech is a d$%& and the mechanics seem to be clueless also.

This new place closer to my house are a lot more friendly and seem to know more about their product. So I will be going there from now on. ( they did the front and alignment of my lift ) Was very happy with the work and costumer care. Would have liked to go to the place they did the brakes and the rear lift but they were booked for the next 2 weeks so... there you go. Toyota dealer was a bit more expensive but overall they did a great job with my Toyota so I guess all is good :)

Sorry if I went off topic here. :lookout:
 
BTW part of my confusion is the 04 had a so called "multi mode" 4WD and the dash light symbol when in 4H with ctr diff not locked was the same as the 16 "part time "in 4H ( a single line between axles with no X) so I took it as the same.

Quite frankly I never paid much attention to what mfg's call their 4WDs, just always try to delve into the functions to understand capabilities and limitations.

Now I usually drove in the sand in 4LO with ctr diff locked in the 04. Will also use 4LO in the 16. BUT I don't yet get the A-TRAC function available in 4LO with the 16.

Would appreciate thoughts on that in deep soft sand, on or off???
 
BTW part of my confusion is the 04 had a so called "multi mode" 4WD and the dash light symbol when in 4H with ctr diff not locked was the same as the 16 "part time "in 4H ( a single line between axles with no X) so I took it as the same.

Quite frankly I never paid much attention to what mfg's call their 4WDs, just always try to delve into the functions to understand capabilities and limitations.

Now I usually drove in the sand in 4LO with ctr diff locked in the 04. Will also use 4LO in the 16. BUT I don't yet get the A-TRAC function available in 4LO with the 16.

Would appreciate thoughts on that in deep soft sand, on or off???

There's a thread about A-TRAC with a lot a different opinions about it. I'll just share my experience with it. Last year at ramp 44, right by the Hatteras Light House (I know you know where that is) I hit some real deep soft sand. I was in 4hi with KDDS in the sand/loose rock setting. I got stuck so I went to 4lo, got going a little but was still struggling. So I decided to play with the gadgets on the truck, hit the rear locker and that was a little better but still was pretty bogged, I had movement but it wasn't getting up and out like I wanted, so I stopped, disengaged the locker and tried A-TRAC and it was like night and day, she immediately came up and out with no problem. For the rest of that trip I intentionally would find the deep soft stuff just to see if I could stick it and every time A-TRAC shined for me. Since then I've used A-TRAC in mud and snow with good results. That's just my experience. I've read a lot of different things about it here, some good some bad.
 
BTW part of my confusion is the 04 had a so called "multi mode" 4WD and the dash light symbol when in 4H with ctr diff not locked was the same as the 16 "part time "in 4H ( a single line between axles with no X) so I took it as the same.

Quite frankly I never paid much attention to what mfg's call their 4WDs, just always try to delve into the functions to understand capabilities and limitations.

Now I usually drove in the sand in 4LO with ctr diff locked in the 04. Will also use 4LO in the 16. BUT I don't yet get the A-TRAC function available in 4LO with the 16.

Would appreciate thoughts on that in deep soft sand, on or off???

Alright Ted, first lesson of this forum: Do your research!
The quote below is from someone who I am sure is trying to help you with his experience right? Unfortunately, he has his terminology messed up and that will only confuse. In addition to that he has a vehicle that has options that your vehicle does not have. Let's fix his post first:
He has a Trail Edition 4Runner, not a SR5 like you. They have, in addition to rear e locker (which you don't have either) a multi mode setting that is like cruise control for off road. The KDSS he mentions that he has turned on is in reality a suspension component that has no on or off button. It's always active. You don't have that either on the SR5.

You kinda need to know the difference between part and full time 4WD as it pertains to the 4Runner. In addition to that you need to know exactly what your vehicle has in terms of options, otherwise there will be posts like the one below that, while trying to help, will only confuse.

Your signature line says SR5. The SR5 4Runner only has part time 4WD with a two speed transfer case. It also has ATRAC. It has VSC (little button near the sunroof with the car skidding symbol) and that's it as far as 4WD functions and things that can help get you through the sand, snow and mud.

Beach Driving
The number one thing you can do is buy some decent tires. There are a million different ones and a million different opinions on which one is best. My opinion is get a decent set of AT tires.

Leave it in Drive! Don't shift into 1st or 2nd and leave it there, especially for long beach drives. That's a sure fire way to heat the transmission.

Next is air down! Everyone will agree this is the second best thing (or best thing) you can do to get through the sand. 15-18 psi works well with the 4Runner.

After airing down you need to be in 4HI. This locks the front and rear axle together (no center diff like your old one had). 4LO is not necessary in normal beach driving as you don't need the extra torque, unless you just want to spin a deeper hole.

Now, in 4HI the VSC (vehicle stability control) is active, just like in 2HI. When I am in sand I turn it off. Why? Because leaving it on won't allow your wheels to spin at a different rate. It uses the ABS to control wheel spin and will also r e t a r d your throttle if you do start spinning. This is bad, especially when getting started from a stop in loose sand.

Now we get to ATRAC. ATRAC (which now would be a really good time to research this on your own - just google it) works by using ABS on all four wheels to control wheel spin. Remember VSC from above? Like that only it takes the throttle r e t a r d away. ATRAC is a very good thing as it mimics having lockers on front and rear. It works best when moving but will work from a standstill.


There are many people here that do a lot of beach driving and hopefully they will chime in. I have done my fair share and to recap:
Get good tires.
Air DOWN
Use 4HI
Leave it in Drive.
Turn off VSC
Use common sense and don't go where you don't need to be.

And that is how I drive around the barrier islands. No drama, no spinning, no excess heat in transmission, no nothing.

Now, if you do get stuck...
1. Collapsible shovel
2. Max Trax

Hope this helps.




There's a thread about A-TRAC with a lot a different opinions about it. I'll just share my experience with it. Last year at ramp 44, right by the Hatteras Light House (I know you know where that is) I hit some real deep soft sand. I was in 4hi with KDDS in the sand/loose rock setting. I got stuck so I went to 4lo, got going a little but was still struggling. So I decided to play with the gadgets on the truck, hit the rear locker and that was a little better but still was pretty bogged, I had movement but it wasn't getting up and out like I wanted, so I stopped, disengaged the locker and tried A-TRAC and it was like night and day, she immediately came up and out with no problem. For the rest of that trip I intentionally would find the deep soft stuff just to see if I could stick it and every time A-TRAC shined for me. Since then I've used A-TRAC in mud and snow with good results. That's just my experience. I've read a lot of different things about it here, some good some bad.
 
Do pardon my incorrect terminology, I suppose I could have relayed my point more concisely. Bottom line is I had a very positive experience using A-TRAC in the very same sand you have driven in and will likely drive in on future occasions.
 
Do pardon my incorrect terminology, I suppose I could have relayed my point more concisely. Bottom line is I had a very positive experience using A-TRAC in the very same sand you have driven in and will likely drive in on future occasions.

No worries. I just wanted him to understand there are a lot of differences between the 4WD on the different models of 4Runners.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
278,312
Messages
3,554,083
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top