4runner Custom Lower Links !

I have been thinking of getting my screen name changed, I may do that.
Once our design is fully worked out id be happy to build a few sets.

and John Your buddies website seems to have good prices on the dom. It was a few bucks cheaper than what i paid. Your friends site was $5.50 per foot I paid $7. shipping my be hefty tho
 
J-money$$$ said:
I have been thinking of getting my screen name changed, I may do that.
Once our design is fully worked out id be happy to build a few sets.

and John Your buddies website seems to have good prices on the dom. It was a few bucks cheaper than what i paid. Your friends site was $5.50 per foot I paid $7. shipping my be hefty tho
Click to expand...
Not everyone is able to find places that will sell cuts though. That's what makes Red 9 affordable even with shipping.

Are you guys selling these?
 
Heim joint to heim joint got pretty loud and clunky after a couple of months. The heims wear in and must get flat spots because you can hear play in them over time and we made sure it's not the mounting holes. They'd be fine for a rock crawler, but for a DD we need to make them a little more driveable. We'll post pics of the new improved links soon!!

John,
We aren't selling them yet, but once we dial them in and we're confident that people will be happy with them, I think we'll make them to order. They are strong as hell though. I split about a 1.5' boulder in 1/2 with mine, lol. And the flex you get with these things is pretty incredible.
 
ill keep watch for updates. i plan to copy your design but longer for a new mount up closer to my frame. thanks for all the detailed info and blazing the path!
 
brian2sun said:
Heim joint to heim joint got pretty loud and clunky after a couple of months. The heims wear in and must get flat spots because you can hear play in them over time and we made sure it's not the mounting holes. They'd be fine for a rock crawler, but for a DD we need to make them a little more driveable. We'll post pics of the new improved links soon!!

John,
We aren't selling them yet, but once we dial them in and we're confident that people will be happy with them, I think we'll make them to order. They are strong as hell though. I split about a 1.5' boulder in 1/2 with mine, lol. And the flex you get with these things is pretty incredible.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of throwing a set together not using heims though. We are crazy busy right now so I doubt I'll be able the get to my LCA's any time soon. I've also got all the parts for a manual hub conversion sitting in the corner staring at me.
 
The reason we used heims is because the degree of travel is more than twice as much as a rubber joint and we get a couple more inches of travel than any other LCAs out there right now will allow. We'll be keeping a heim on one end. My uppers are already finished - heim on axle side, poly bushing on frame side and they have been working wonderfully so far and don't make any noise.

Troy,
You're local so if you want to check mine out to see our idea before you start making yours, hit me up. I'd like to go wheeling with you too!
 
Major update 2-2-11

well I said the design was going to change, and I finally got my parts in the mail this week so here we go::


The clunking from dual heim joint ends was getting pretty bad, and i noticed that the holes the bolts went through were slowly turning into slots. The reason? with heims you dont get any shock absorption in the links. So energy and noise is transfered right through them. WIth a bushing you have some flex in it so it lessens the noise and absorbs vibrations/shocks

so i set out to rebuild the links.

For the uppers i got a bushing and welded some High Grade All thread to it so it would thread into my upper links. They have 2 passes on the shaft, and a plug weld from the back. They seem super strong.
0202111218.jpg~original



And here is the final product:



0202111223.jpg~original





As for the lowers I did not want to sacrifice any strength so I remade them. I Used 1.5" .250 wall dom for the link, and then got bushings made with 5/8" bores. The bushings press into a piece of 2" .250 wall dom.

I also used ballistic fab hex bungs so tightening the jam nut would be easier.

On my set of links they ended up about 1/4" shorter than expected. So the get the right length the heim only had about an inch of threads in the bung. I had some extra jam nuts so I welded an extra jam nut to the link. Im sure it didnt sacrifice any strength, and i feel just a little more comfortable with the extra threads. I do not have a pic of what I did, but i will add one

here are the pics


PURDY WELDS THIS TIME!
0202111100.jpg~original



0202111001a.jpg~original



Allmost done
0202111001.jpg~original
 
J-money$$$ said:
well I said the design was going to change, and I finally got my parts in the mail this week so here we go::


The clunking from dual heim joint ends was getting pretty bad, and i noticed that the holes the bolts went through were slowly turning into slots. The reason? with heims you dont get any shock absorption in the links. So energy and noise is transfered right through them. WIth a bushing you have some flex in it so it lessens the noise and absorbs vibrations/shocks

so i set out to rebuild the links.

For the uppers i got a bushing and welded some High Grade All thread to it so it would thread into my upper links. They have 2 passes on the shaft, and a plug weld from the back. They seem super strong.
0202111218.jpg~original



And here is the final product:



0202111223.jpg~original
Click to expand...
The bushing end looks a little spooky. Let us know how it holds up. I like where you guys are going with it and no doubt it's a good upgrade. Could it have been done for pretty much the same price in the end had you started with whatever flavor of Johnny Joint and been done with it?
 
The cost of the materials and the final price will be significantly cheaper now that we've figured out the best design. And the heims provide that extra flex that we haven't seen from any of the links on the market currently. Look at your stock arms and how those bushing are attached, I think you'll agree those are much spookier. I will say without a doubt that the way the bushings are attached is much stronger between the multiple pass welds and the much thicker and larger diameter tubing (which means a larger surface area to weld). And of course the .250 wall DOM will not deform under any normal circumstances.
 
Big John said:
The bushing end looks a little spooky. Let us know how it holds up. I like where you guys are going with it and no doubt it's a good upgrade. Could it have been done for pretty much the same price in the end had you started with whatever flavor of Johnny Joint and been done with it?
Click to expand...

Just got home from wheeling in Johnson valley. Ran most of bullfrog and cakewalk, and the new links seem to be good. The bushing ends will be fine. Look at the stock uppers! these have a bigger shaft, better material, 2 passes of welds and a plug weld. I know the penetration was crazy because after pass two the entire dom sleeve was red and the shaft was glowing.

and the deal with johnny joints: Id have to say no because they dont absorb shocks any better than heim joints.i would have the same issues. Now for someone to build a set you can get the bushings with sleeves ($40), and a pair of heims with jam nuts and bungs $60) for about $100 total.


compared to A pair of johnny joints ($70) Bungs ($20) jam nuts ($10) and a pair of bushings ($40) with a total of $140. Im cool running Heims for $40 less. The biggest thing is to always keep one side with a bushings, unless you completely re-do the suspension (3link or 4link)

But heck if you build something similar you can just pass on the cost of whatever the buyer wants. they would be the same to make.


I trust my jankey upper bushings.... we will see how they are doing after a few months of wheeling. I just remember my stock uppers being 1/2 solid bar welded to the bushings. And the factory welds looked pitiful
 
Good to hear it's working. I certainly wasn't questioning your technique. Putting the plug weld in told me that you were paying attention to detail. I certainly don't know what I would have done to make it any better Now that you guys have the bugs worked out I may have to copy you if I ever get time. I'll probably get it done right after my hub conversion in 2016:lmao:
 
Big John said:
Good to hear it's working. I certainly wasn't questioning your technique. Putting the plug weld in told me that you were paying attention to detail. I certainly don't know what I would have done to make it any better Now that you guys have the bugs worked out I may have to copy you if I ever get time. I'll probably get it done right after my hub conversion in 2016:lmao:
Click to expand...

I could have just re-made the uppers completely, but the shaft idea was worth a shot, And be my guest if you would like to make some, at least I can feel that I helped in the R&D :)

And my 2016 these links will be long gone off my 4runner. Im hoping for a SAS in a year or so
 
Alright so after lots of testing i think these links are basically trouble free. There have been small things like the link mount holes, but after plating them it seems that The links are really good. I bent one of my current lowers just a little. I didnt think that 1.5" .250 wall dom with such a short link would bend. Its just a little off so no worries there.

I built a set of upper links for Driffter33. These links turned out great. They are the best design for noise and flex. One side has a welded on bushing ans the other has a 3/4 heim. the specs are

1.25" .120 wall dom tubing,

3/4 ruff stuff heims, jam nuts, bungs and stainless steel misaligment spacers with 1/2" bore

WFO Concepts bushings (They come 3" wide and i cut them down to the proper width). 1 7/8 .187 wall dom outer sleeve, 3/4 .120 wall inner dom sleeve

They should be pretty strong, All welds are double passed and i used 6010 rod with the lincoln 220v stick welder i use for everything.

Welds are getting better. I have been trying to learn some new things
0810111233.jpg~original


Heim and bushing. I like the thick inner inserts
0810111231.jpg~original


Bushing sides
0810111230a.jpg~original


Final product
0810111230.jpg~original
 
Those look great!
I've been thinking about some links just like that. I have already broken two upper links.
 
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