4runner down, need some advice

Not sure if this has been suggested, but have you checked the starter solenoid? You can try jumping the solenoid or securing the connections.
 
the kid said:
i dont think its the ignition, as its sending power to the starter... i still think the starter is just not getting good enough power(im thinking stubborn, i know)

can you walk us through the process of how you have tested things like battery, starter ect, pics of your connections could be helpful as well.

have you checked all the motor ground? made sure none of them broke or are lose?

you are deff getting power to the starter. have you made use that all the connections to the starter are plugged in(the little wire harness pig tail? and you are sure that the main power wire is not broken or the insulation on it is all intact and not shorting out someplace... ? what say you [MENTION=94888]EatonKyleH[/MENTION]... you have any thoughts on this dilemma, we all know you are the electrical guru in the 3rd gen section
Click to expand...

for battery i just tested voltage, not much testing on the battery, but i got another battery that's good.

i jump the starter straight from the battery, Neg on the base, Pos on the terminal, no dice, i might try to wire the solinold to the power wire to see if that helps.

Cleaned Alt power wire, engine block ground wire, battery terminals, Starter power wire.

did a continuity test on the starter relay, pin 1/2, 3/5 both reads 0, that could be the problem, even tho the relay clicks, gonna go grab a relay from a friend and give it a try.

last thing on the list is ignition, if that doesn't fix this idk what will
 
the kid said:
you are deff getting power to the starter. have you made use that all the connections to the starter are plugged in(the little wire harness pig tail? and you are sure that the main power wire is not broken or the insulation on it is all intact and not shorting out someplace... ? what say you [MENTION=94888]EatonKyleH[/MENTION]... you have any thoughts on this dilemma, we all know you are the electrical guru in the 3rd gen section
Click to expand...

Haha thanks Kid,
I guess I'll play and see if I can help out a bit.

We can simplify this quite a bit with a few things I haven't seen mentioned.

Here is your starter circuit wiring diagram:


Most of the diagram you can ignore but see there are 2 connections at the starter which you will need to have voltage on to get the click of the solenoid you are hearing. (I've marked them with the red and pink circles) To get it to operate correctly and actually engage/turn the engine over you'll need a full 12 or very close volts.

Because you are getting a click when attempting to crank the ignition switch is closing properly as is the neutral safety switch, etc to allow the starter relay to close sending power to the starter where marked in red. The pink is just 12 volts straight from the battery all the time.

There could however be excessive resistance in one of these above mentioned items causing a voltage drop before the starter. (we'll get to that)

Bench testing starters is extremely unreliable because there is no load on the starter on a bench. Many starters will test ok on the bench but due to internal electrical resistance be unable to turn the load of the engine.

____________________


Now you can test for 12 volts on both wires at the starter when cranking with a DVOM.....

Or we can keep it easier and rule out a bunch of stuff by simply doing the testing at the starter relay in the under hood fuse box.

We can absolutely rule out the ignition switch and everything on the control side of the circuit by jumping the relay.

I just made a little video for you so you don't think I'm crazy. You'll need a paper clip, cotter pin, piece of wire, or the like. The relay deals with very minimal current so there is no risk of damage.



This is now allowing power to take this direct path.



Seee!!! this bypasses the ignition switch, neutral safety and so on so if it still just clicks doing this then you know that it is none of those things and much more simple to now diagnose.

You should also test for 12 volts on pin 5 of the relay. If the voltage at the battery is 12 volts but is less than 12 volts at relay you have excessive resistance in the wiring or battery connections.

I know this is a lot to take in and I tried to keep it simple but really this is how we can diagnose it effectively and quickly without just throwing parts at it.

Also as mentioned before have you tried turning the engine with a breaker bar or the like?
 
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EraSevera said:
Did some digging....

The solenoid is attached to the starter, and it is very common for the contacts to go out. Replacement contacts can be purchased for ~$20.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/53422-starter-issues-3-4-a.html

2000 3.4L 4Runner Starter Solenoid - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Solenoid, relay or starter? - Tacoma World Forums
Click to expand...

he put a new starter in it... this is most likely not the issue as it is a remaned denso, and remaned denso's are top quality their criteria for a starter or any of their remaned products is; it has to be one of their originals, and they have to do the work. -i can tell its a reman, by the fact that its got the red denso sticker on it, red = reman, green denso stickers mean brand new.

thus highly unlikely that its a bad starter
 
EatonKyleH said:
Haha thanks Kid,
I guess I'll play and see if I can help out a bit.

We can simplify this quite a bit with a few things I haven't seen mentioned.

Here is your starter circuit wiring diagram:


Most of the diagram you can ignore but see there are 2 connections at the starter which you will need to have voltage on to get the click of the solenoid you are hearing. (I've marked them with the red and pink circles) To get it to operate correctly and actually engage/turn the engine over you'll need a full 12 or very close volts.

Because you are getting a click when attempting to crank the ignition switch is closing properly as is the neutral safety switch, etc to allow the starter relay to close sending power to the starter where marked in red. The pink is just 12 volts straight from the battery all the time.

There could however be excessive resistance in one of these above mentioned items causing a voltage drop before the starter. (we'll get to that)

Bench testing starters is extremely unreliable because there is no load on the starter on a bench. Many starters will test ok on the bench but due to internal electrical resistance be unable to turn the load of the engine.

____________________


Now you can test for 12 volts on both wires at the starter when cranking with a DVOM.....

Or we can keep it easier and rule out a bunch of stuff by simply doing the testing at the starter relay in the under hood fuse box.

We can absolutely rule out the ignition switch and everything on the control side of the circuit by jumping the relay.

I just made a little video for you so you don't think I'm crazy. You'll need a paper clip, cotter pin, piece of wire, or the like. The relay deals with very minimal current so there is no risk of damage.



This is now allowing power to take this direct path.



Seee!!! this bypasses the ignition switch, neutral safety and so on so if it still just clicks doing this then you know that it is none of those things and much more simple to now diagnose.

You should also test for 12 volts on pin 5 of the relay. If the voltage at the battery is 12 volts but is less than 12 volts at relay you have excessive resistance in the wiring or battery connections.

I know this is a lot to take in and I tried to keep it simple but really this is how we can diagnose it effectively and quickly without just throwing parts at it.

Also as mentioned before have you tried turning the engine with a breaker bar or the like?
Click to expand...
Oh my god, that has made so much sense. i will test the relay right away.


And yes, the engine turns with a breaker bar.
 
IT JUST STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i just put the key to start position, jumper wire in hand touched 3 and 5 on the relay and boom! DAR SHE CRANKS! and then i tested the voltage on 5 and it reads 12.54v.

And then i put the relay back, hopped in the truck and crank the key and the truck starts. i have no idea what's going on. im happy and confused at the same time.

i have no idea what was wrong. and what i did to make it start. kinda overwhelmed at the moment.
 
t4r4life said:
IT JUST STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i just put the key to start position, jumper wire in hand touched 3 and 5 on the relay and boom! DAR SHE CRANKS! and then i tested the voltage on 5 and it reads 12.54v.

And then i put the relay back, hopped in the truck and crank the key and the truck starts. i have no idea what's going on. im happy and confused at the same time.

i have no idea what was wrong. and what i did to make it start. kinda overwhelmed at the moment.
Click to expand...

Fantastic!

You most likely have high resistance across the relay contacts in the relay.
Replace the relay and you should be fine and dandy.

Here's why:
When you took it out and put it back it was enough to disturb the wee little contacts to allow them to get a better connection than they had. Much like the effect of tapping the starter/solenoid to get a failing starter to work.

And it started jumping the relay because well we took out the bad piece of the puzzle and created a path with the jumper that did not have resistance in it like that failing relay.

I'm glad this made sense and we got her solved.
 
t4r4life said:
IT JUST STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i just put the key to start position, jumper wire in hand touched 3 and 5 on the relay and boom! DAR SHE CRANKS! and then i tested the voltage on 5 and it reads 12.54v.

And then i put the relay back, hopped in the truck and crank the key and the truck starts. i have no idea what's going on. im happy and confused at the same time.

i have no idea what was wrong. and what i did to make it start. kinda overwhelmed at the moment.
Click to expand...

That's how I feel after sex.
Congrats on gettin' your rig running.
 
EatonKyleH said:
Fantastic!

You most likely have high resistance across the relay contacts in the relay.
Replace the relay and you should be fine and dandy.

Here's why:
When you took it out and put it back it was enough to disturb the wee little contacts to allow them to get a better connection than they had. Much like the effect of tapping the starter/solenoid to get a failing starter to work.

And it started jumping the relay because well we took out the bad piece of the puzzle and created a path with the jumper that did not have resistance in it like that failing relay.

I'm glad this made sense and we got her solved.
Click to expand...

Thank you man and [MENTION=60147]the kid[/MENTION] for hollering you over lol i'm glad it was something simple.
 
Glad it worked.

Thanks for the KID and EatonKyleH. I like the video.

I'll be in Sacramento and San Jose in late December- early January... if you are free... perhaps we can meet and greet. I would also like to meet fellow members in that area. Any possibility?
 
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Perseverance paid off and glad you got it running. I had an issue with a stump grinder over the summer but my problem was much simpler I just didn't realize it. after replacing the starter I put the wires back (constant 12v from battery, wire to solenoid, and the ignition wire but it would not crank. I switched out the key switch and triple checked everything. In the end (after a couple hours of banging my head) I figured out I put the key switch wire on the same pole as the constant power instead of the solenoid pole. :doh:
 
MASTER@EatonKyleH !!!!
it happened again tonight, after i got out of class tonight, i went to start the truck and the sound of click and not starting almost gave me a panic attack. The truck finally started after i crank the ignition super fast like 20 times. could this be the ignition have bad connection?
 
I realize the problem has been solved, and this is different than your issue, but I had the same problem a few months back. Parked my 4runner in a barn to take a picture before heading to a car show, and tried to start it back up and everything went dead. Wiggled the battery cable a bit, and she started up. A few weeks back, same thing. Went to start it, had radio and such, then the starter clicked, and that was it. Cycled the key a few times, occasionally I'd get power back to the radio, but every time I tried to start it she'd click, until about the fifth try and it would start. Happened again a few days later, so I cranked down the positive battery cable, works fine now. the bolt that clamps down my cable on the terminal doesn't like to stay tight. Just an FYI for anyone that stumbles across the thread.
 
i ordered a new set of battery terminals along with my big 3 upgrade stuff, that should help, planning on doing it next week.
 
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