4runner thinks it's on before starting?

[nicolachel]

Won't start, 4runner thinks that it's on before starting?

Couldn't start it today and noticed something weird.

That is when I turn the key to the start position, only the navigation thing restarts and nothing else will happen, if I remembered it correctly, that's what it should be doing when you turn the key to the start position when the engine is running.

I also noticed that the CEL and the A/T OIL temp warning lights are not on. To my knowledge the CEL and A/T OIL temp lights should be on when the engine is not running?

Checked the battery voltage through the cig lighter and it's like 12.2v while key in On position and will drop to 0 while key in start position.

Update:

All the fuses under the dash seems to be okay.

Tried to jump it, volt meter confirmed a ~14V voltage between the terminals of jumping cable but it still won't do anything (No click, No turn, No sound).

So what do you guys think is wrong?

Thanks

 

[nicolachel]

bump for help

 

[mrpanic7]

bump for help

So does it crank?

 

[nicolachel]

So does it crank?

No it doesn't.

Even when it is connected to the jumping car.

 

[nicolachel]

Checked the EFI fuse and relay as well as some other fuses and all seem to be fine.

What's really weird is that the CEL never come on even when the "self-testing" is happening (it would turn on breifly before having the can't start issue)

 

[MICA4R]

bump for help

Starter or ECU is gone or electrical input to starter is fouled up somewhere.

Is there a way to send direct power to starter and by-pass ECU to test it?

 

[regulator213]

Yeah just use a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the starter. I would disconnect the factory starter wire when you do it though. On a similar note I would check for a good ground with a multimeter while you are doing that. I could be an ECU but typically when an ECU goes bad it will turn the CEL on yet there will be no fault codes not the other way around. Another thing you can do is test for voltage at the starter when turning the key to start. If theres no voltage then work your way back through the system till you get to the ECU. Do you have a mainteance manual?

 

[08T4R]

Don't blow your 120 Alternator fuse!!!!!!!!! - Tacoma World Forums

check that..have seen this before on camrys, and other yotas if not connected properly with jumper cables..

PS-Battery should have more than 12.2v. Thats low.

 

[nicolachel]

Yeah just use a jumper wire from the positive side of the battery to the starter. I would disconnect the factory starter wire when you do it though. On a similar note I would check for a good ground with a multimeter while you are doing that. I could be an ECU but typically when an ECU goes bad it will turn the CEL on yet there will be no fault codes not the other way around. Another thing you can do is test for voltage at the starter when turning the key to start. If theres no voltage then work your way back through the system till you get to the ECU. Do you have a mainteance manual?

Thanks a lot but it seems that the starter is buried deeply between the 2 cylinder banks? So is there a way to get to its contacts without taken the intake manifold out?

I have a pdf maintenance manual and it mentioned that a lot needs to be removed in order to get to the starter.

 

[nicolachel]

Starter or ECU is gone or electrical input to starter is fouled up somewhere.

Is there a way to send direct power to starter and by-pass ECU to test it?

Thanks, I'll try to see if I could reach the starter. It seems to be in an inconvenient place.

 

[nicolachel]

Don't blow your 120 Alternator fuse!!!!!!!!! - Tacoma World Forums

check that..have seen this before on camrys, and other yotas if not connected properly with jumper cables..

PS-Battery should have more than 12.2v. Thats low.

Checked it alternator fuse and it is okay...

 

[TRDCal]

Battery should have more than 12.2v. Thats low.

LOL...I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there. I'd say its pretty normal for a 12v battery to have 12v. Now when the engine is running, your correct it should have more like 14v.

@OP...Does you T4R have a remote starter, if so maybe theres a fault with it?? Try a different key, maybe the transponder is screwed up. You could also try putting it in neutral to see if that makes a difference, maybe the ecu is not sensing the shifter in park.

I don't know buts its little things to try before having to pay for tow truck to get it to a shop

Good Luck

 

[nicolachel]

LOL...I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there. I'd say its pretty normal for a 12v battery to have 12v. Now when the engine is running, your correct it should have more like 14v.

@OP...Does you T4R have a remote starter, if so maybe theres a fault with it?? Try a different key, maybe the transponder is screwed up. You could also try putting it in neutral to see if that makes a difference, maybe the ecu is not sensing the shifter in park.

I don't know buts its little things to try before having to pay for tow truck to get it to a shop

Good Luck

Thanks for the suggestions.

There's no remote starter on it and I tried all my 3 keys just now, in both N and P, but no luck:nono:

The symptom is actually quite similar with the one in this thread

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/109596-engine-electrical-problem.html

in that the CEL won't come on when the key is turned from ACC to ON, and truck won't crank if the key is then turned to Start.

But jcpaoli stated that "If it doesn´t i stop and wait, some times hours, until the service engine light turns on while turning the key so it will start." but for me service engine light never turn on so it never start.

And it's the first time that I've seen this problem, never happened before.

Also noticed that if I push the hill-descent in while in 4Hi, nothing happens (the hill-descent light should flash).

So I suspect that it is ECU related and checked fuses/relays as well as the wires that are readily accessible by taking the glove box off and they seem to be just fine.



AAA could tow the truck for free but just wondering is it better to go directly to a dealership since they might have a much better knowledge in the electrical part of the truck or is it better to have a reputable 3rd party shop look at it since they probably also have their resources (on-line databases of diagrams and diagnostic manuals I guess? ) and might be much cheaper in a sense that it could be time-consuming to pin-point the actual problem?

 

[MICA4R]

Thanks for the suggestions.
AAA could tow the truck for free but just wondering is it better to go directly to a dealership since they might have a much better knowledge in the electrical part of the truck or is it better to have a reputable 3rd party shop look at it...

This is what I would do.

1) Check the starter with direct battery power if you have the know-how to do it. If the starter cranks take it to TOYOTA directly as is some "ecu electrical" thing.

2) If the starter doesn't turn with direct power take it to your local guy to swap out the starter.

This is my thought process and my $0.02

 

[nicolachel]

This is what I would do.

1) Check the starter with direct battery power if you have the know-how to do it. If the starter cranks take it to TOYOTA directly as is some "ecu electrical" thing.

2) If the starter doesn't turn with direct power take it to your local guy to swap out the starter.

This is my thought process and my $0.02

Thanks but I looked and didn't see how could I approach the starter which is under the intake manifold:shrug:

So still not sure about whether it's a bad starter or the ecu.

Which would you choose under such a situation? toyota or local guy?

 

[TRDCal]

So still not sure about whether it's a bad starter or the ecu.

Which would you choose under such a situation? toyota or local guy?

An easy way to see if its the starter or not would be to have your head under the hood near the fuse box and have someone try starting it. If you hear the starter relay click then you know the ECU is good and starter is bad. If you hear no click then its something with ECU. Some cars you can hear the relay click from inside and you wouldn't need two people but I'm not sure with the t4r because I haven't had any problems with mine....knock on wood.

Also, I would take it to the dealer because they have the right manuals and the experience working on these trucks, unless your 3rd party guy works on these alot.

 

[toyotatech84]

I think it would help if you told us if its a v6 or v8. if its a v8 good luck getting to the starter since its under the massive intake manifold. The v6 is a little easier to get to.

 

[08T4R]

Disagree if you wish, but "Checked the battery voltage through the cig lighter and it's like 12.2v while key in On position and will drop to 0 while key in start position." <--thats not quite normal.

LOL...I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there. I'd say its pretty normal for a 12v battery to have 12v. Now when the engine is running, your correct it should have more like 14v.

@OP...Does you T4R have a remote starter, if so maybe theres a fault with it?? Try a different key, maybe the transponder is screwed up. You could also try putting it in neutral to see if that makes a difference, maybe the ecu is not sensing the shifter in park.

I don't know buts its little things to try before having to pay for tow truck to get it to a shop

Good Luck

 

[nicolachel]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Towed it to a toyota dealership today, after spending a whole day on it, they called back and concluded that "the ECM is gone and needs replacement".

They also told me a part number which seems to be a remaned one (89666 35622) and say that "we looked and there's only one in the world, may take 1 week to ship it from Japan to here. " and they wanted ~1300 for it.

They also said that "there's no remaned ones since the ECM is non-repairable for both toyota and them".

Sounds very fishy since I searched and found that toyotapartsales.com is selling it (89666 35622) for $620 and the new one(89666 35621) for $1000. And there're some sellers on ebay selling used ones(they are also 89666 35621) for like $300.

So what do you guys think?

I probably won't pay the local dealership $1300 for a remaned one, but shall I give the cheapest used ones on eBay a try or shall I just go with the $620 remaned ones from toyotapartsales.com?

I really don't know if I should but I'm actually also suspecting their diagnostic result since if they have the guts to sell me a remaned ECM for more than twice as much, they might as well just claim that a good ECM is not working.
Has any one had the same issue before and fixed it by replacing the ECM? I'm asking this partly because that sites like toyotapartsales.com won't allow returns on electrical parts and if a replacement can't fix the problem then I would basically be pay $600 for nothing.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[TRDCal]

I don't want to argue or fill this thread with nonsense but here's my side of the story (see below).

Don't blow your 120 Alternator fuse!!!!!!!!! - Tacoma World Forums

check that..have seen this before on camrys, and other yotas if not connected properly with jumper cables..

PS-Battery should have more than 12.2v. Thats low.

Above is your exact unaltered post. You wrote and I quote "PS-Battery should have more than 12.2v. Thats low" with no reference to what position the key was in. Althought you didn't, if you meant to clearify more then I apologize for disagreeing but you have to agree that it seems like your just talking about battery voltage.

Disagree if you wish, but "Checked the battery voltage through the cig lighter and it's like 12.2v while key in On position and will drop to 0 while key in start position." <--thats not quite normal.

I agree with this but your first post didn't seem to be quoting that.

Sorry OP for getting off topic. If I were you I'd try and find an ECU at a wreckers or buy used. It's not very common that they failed and they don't really wear out (per se) so I'm sure you'd get plenty of miles out of a used one.