4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[shan1841]

My budget FJ coil swap (question)

My budget FJ coil swap (questions)
Hi forum, i'm a newbie with only 3 weeks of 4runner ownership.

Purchased a 2005 4runner SE V6 4wd with 173K miles, noticed the xreas are very bouncy going over uneven roads, also have extreme nose dive even with soft braking. In short, truck handles like crap, so looking to do a xreas delete and install a new suspension on this old gal.

I want to run this combo by you experts and hopefully get a stamp of approval that this will work. Been reading hundreds of forum pages the passed few days before posting.

equipent using

- Coils, 2013 FJ (front and back) 80k miles ($75 picked up today)

- Shocks, 2020 tacoma TRD offroad bilsteins 3000 miles take offs with included stock UCA (do I use these or not?) (yellow ones, 4600 im assuming) , comes with front coils, but will not be using them. (ad listing $200, so not purchased yet),

-Energy Suspension 9.8108G 3/4" Hourglass Shock Eye for rear shock (amazon $14.33)

- spacers for driver lean??? not sure if I need them

Looking to gain 1" up front and 1/2" in the rear from what I have estimated. Right now I have 2" rake so that will cut the rake down to 1.5" which I am fine with. Would this suspension setup work or am I missing something? Thanks guys in advance.

Shan

 

[Bluesky 07]

[MENTION=621924]shan1841[/MENTION] The “X-REAS delete...” post linked in my sig should be helpful since I also did the Tacoma swap and the post will walk you through most of it. About your post, why not use the Tacoma front coils that have 7 years less time & surely far fewer miles? Just something to think about. I would also use the UCAs if they're suitable for your truck. I believe they are but will leave it to others who have installed one to verify.

Also highly recommended is this writeup by the venerable [MENTION=621924]J.A.[/MENTION] , where I found this outstanding advice about removing/installing the fronts that will greatly reduce the misery of that "unreachable" third bolt. You can get a set of socket caps at Harbor Freight for something like $3.99. I found this after doing my install but already bought the caps so I'm ready for the next one.
==
Remove the three 14mm upper strut tower nuts. I used an open ended wrench on a Socket Cap attached to a 14mm socket. By doing this you can make quick work of removing the rear nut which is impossible to use a ratchet on due to limited clearance, and also tough to use a wrench on as the turning radius is limited as well. You put the 14mm socket on the rear nut, then put the socket cap in the socket. Then using an open ended wrench becomes easier as the wrench is elevated above the center strut bolt but still has enough room below the wheel well to turn in a wide arc.
==

I got that bolt off and back on with an open-ended wrench. There's almost no room so there I sat turning it millimeter by millimeter for God knows how long. :doh:

Happy to answer any installation questions as best I can. Good luck & let us know how it turns out.

P.S. Where are you located?

 

[shan1841]

why Fjs?

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

Thank you Bluesky, I think I have read a lot of your forum postings while going through all these threads. Very good content and great advice that you give other newbies like myself. I live near Los Angeles Ca. btw.

"About your post, why not use the Tacoma front coils that have 7 years less time & surely far fewer miles? Just something to think about."

I am using my newly acquired truck as my fun car (small boat towing, maybe try some light duty offroading as I have never tried before) but it would also be my part time family vehicle as well. I had sold my minivan to get this and that by itself is a 4" lift if you know what i'm saying. I do not want add any more additonal lift so the litle ones are still able to climb aboard. Having said all that, as I recall the 5th gen toca stock springs will give my truck a 2.5"-3" up front. Then I have to buy spacers for the rear or springs to compensate for the extra front lift. Seems the FJs coils provide the lease amount lift while improving handling and ride quality, so that was the reasoning behind my decision to go with the FJs.

im still on the fence with the 2020 taco suspension, that's why I haven't purchase it yet. I might go with new bilsteins 5100s, I like the idea that it has the ability to adjust up front, not sure if that is worth paying double tho. I haven't pulled the trigger on the 5100s is because they are out of stock in most places and the ones that available are asking too much for them.

Lastly, im not installing the suspensions. Already talked to a local mechanic who will do the Xreas delete and suspension install for $250, no alignment tho.

Sorry for the long thread.

 

[Bluesky 07]

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

Thank you Bluesky, I think I have read a lot of your forum postings while going through all these threads. Very good content and great advice that you give other newbies like myself. I live near Los Angeles Ca. btw.

"About your post, why not use the Tacoma front coils that have 7 years less time & surely far fewer miles? Just something to think about."

I am using my newly acquired truck as my fun car (small boat towing, maybe try some light duty offroading as I have never tried before) but it would also be my part time family vehicle as well. I had sold my minivan to get this and that by itself is a 4" lift if you know what i'm saying. I do not want add any more additonal lift so the litle ones are still able to climb aboard. Having said all that, as I recall the 5th gen toca stock springs will give my truck a 2.5"-3" up front. Then I have to buy spacers for the rear or springs to compensate for the extra front lift. Seems the FJs coils provide the lease amount lift while improving handling and ride quality, so that was the reasoning behind my decision to go with the FJs.

im still on the fence with the 2020 taco suspension, that's why I haven't purchase it yet. I might go with new bilsteins 5100s, I like the idea that it has the ability to adjust up front, not sure if that is worth paying double tho. I haven't pulled the trigger on the 5100s is because they are out of stock in most places and the ones that available are asking too much for them.

Lastly, im not installing the suspensions. Already talked to a local mechanic who will do the Xreas delete and suspension install for $250, no alignment tho.

Sorry for the long thread.

I appreciate both your kind words and thoughtful response. Makes perfect sense. Given what you said, I personally see no advantage to getting 5100s. Some will claim they're different (i.e., better) than the 4600s but my research indicated that any differences aside from the obvious ones - adjustable front height & silver color vs. yellow - are insignificant. Plus Bilstein says 5100s are designed for lifted trucks and 4600s for stock height. So if you don't want additional height, no need for 5100s.

I asked where you live in case it was close enough that you could see my setup and take a spin to see how you like the ride on 4600s. I've been very happy with the Tacoma setup (mine is from a '15 TRD Offroad) and to think it only cost me a total of $200 is just icing on the cake.

My shocks are getting up there in mileage and I want another 1" lift in front to level my 4R, so I'm currently trying to decide whether to go the same route again and add a spacer or get 5100s. Decisions, decisions.

 

[Bluesky 07]

Trying to find a definitive answer on something, with apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere: are 3rd Gen (2016-up) Tacoma UCAs plug-n-play on 4th Gen 4Runners? Has anyone here installed them, and if so, any issues with fitment or performance? (Yes, I've seen the Tacoma swap threads but few are for 3rd Gen Tacos, fewer still mention installing UCAs, and none that I've found nail down whether it's definitely a direct swap to the 4R.)

This also sparked an idea, but first things first - sincere thanks to [MENTION=44866]ARK_SWAMP_RIDER[/MENTION] for putting this terrific thread together and everyone who has contributed. So would it make sense to add more fitment/compatibility info to the first post? Similar to the first couple of bullets under the FJ section, and I suppose just adding similar sections covering the Tacoma & 5th Gen 4Runner would do the trick or there could be a Fitment/Compatibility section with everything together there.

Thoughts?

 

[jrm]

I bought my 06' SE with 107k and the suspension was shot..turns out that's why the original owner was selling....

So word from the wise.. budget for replacement suspension..if you can

 

[shan1841]

I bought my 06' SE with 107k and the suspension was shot..turns out that's why the original owner was selling....

So word from the wise.. budget for replacement suspension..if you can

@JRM

Depending on which direction you want to go as far as suspensions. If you are going with the 5100's, the best price I found was
$401.40 with either
10% off by entering in your email for subscription or
5% off by using code "saved5".
However, I think they are 4-6 weeks backordered.

https://www.offroadwarehouse.com/product/5100-series-2003-2009-toyota-4-runner-complete-set

If you need the FJ coils, when I posted my WTB post on the FJ forum, I had several responses, I chose to buy local, but another FJ member was offering his set 2013 FJ Trail with 25k miles for $100 shipped. If you are interested, PM me and I will give you his contact, perhaps you can work out something with him.

Just paying it fwd since this forum has helped me so much.


Edit: Didn't realize JRM is a senior memeber here (excuse my ignorance)...LOL. I thought he had just picked up 06 with super low miles. My mistake.

 

[Bluesky 07]

@JRM

Depending on which direction you want to go as far as suspensions. If you are going with the 5100's, the best price I found was
$401.40 with either
10% off by entering in your email for subscription or
5% off by using code "saved5".
However, I think they are 4-6 weeks backordered.

https://www.offroadwarehouse.com/product/5100-series-2003-2009-toyota-4-runner-complete-set

If you need the FJ coils, when I posted my WTB post on the FJ forum, I had several responses, I chose to buy local, but another FJ member was offering his set 2013 FJ Trail with 25k miles for $100 shipped. If you are interested, PM me and I will give you his contact, perhaps you can work out something with him.

Just paying it fwd since this forum has helped me so much.

Thanks for this. I was curious so I signed up (they request your email & mobile number) & have this set in my cart for $361 shipped. Shows out of stock at their locations but says the product will come straight from the manufacturer. Very tempting since I can’t imagine finding a full set for much less even with Black Friday sales & best I had found previously was $389 shipped.

 

[shan1841]

Trying to find a definitive answer on something, with apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere: are 3rd Gen (2016-up) Tacoma UCAs plug-n-play on 4th Gen 4Runners? Has anyone here installed them, and if so, any issues with fitment or performance? (Yes, I've seen the Tacoma swap threads but few are for 3rd Gen Tacos, fewer still mention installing UCAs, and none that I've found nail down whether it's definitely a direct swap to the 4R.)

This also sparked an idea, but first things first - sincere thanks to [MENTION=44866]ARK_SWAMP_RIDER[/MENTION] for putting this terrific thread together and everyone who has contributed. So would it make sense to add more fitment/compatibility info to the first post? Similar to the first couple of bullets under the FJ section, and I suppose just adding similar sections covering the Tacoma & 5th Gen 4Runner would do the trick or there could be a Fitment/Compatibility section with everything together there.

Thoughts?

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

"Trying to find a definitive answer on something, with apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere: are 3rd Gen (2016-up) Tacoma UCAs plug-n-play on 4th Gen 4Runners?"

I'm trying to find the answer but not able to get a direct answer. I read,

3rd gen taco UCA fits 2nd gen tacos, and
2nd gen Tacos UCA fit 4th gen 4runner,
so by association 3rd gen tacos should fit 4th gen 4runner, but that's just speculation on my part.

If you find the answer please let me know, gonna pull the trigger on the 2020 suspension w/UCA possibly tomorrow. Thanks

 

[Bluesky 07]

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

"Trying to find a definitive answer on something, with apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere: are 3rd Gen (2016-up) Tacoma UCAs plug-n-play on 4th Gen 4Runners?"

I'm trying to find the answer but not able to get a direct answer. I read,

3rd gen taco UCA fits 2nd gen tacos, and
2nd gen Tacos UCA fit 4th gen 4runner,
so by association 3rd gen tacos should fit 4th gen 4runner, but that's just speculation on my part.

If you find the answer please let me know, gonna pull the trigger on the 2020 suspension w/UCA possibly tomorrow. Thanks

That "if-then" logic took me right back to geometry proofs. Makes sense. I'm going to create a thread with the question to try for a faster answer.

 

[shan1841]

better rear shock bottom bushing option?

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]


I thought I was all set as far as materials needed for the 3rd gen Taco suspension swap to 4th gen 4runner, UNTIL.....


I read a post by [MENTION=25058]ChildrenOfBodom[/MENTION]

link How To Press Shock Bushings In and Out


"I see folks using the 9.8108 which is a 1.125 OD hourglass... it's really not recommended that someone use hourglass bushings in straight eyes. The bushings werent made for that, they are meant for hourglass shaped eyes.

Take, for example, most OE replacement rear shocks, the lower eye... those are almost always hourglass shaped. For those, 9.8143 is a perfect fit for OE Toyota shocks and most OE style replacement brands.

Source: I work for Energy Suspension and am completely familiar with these products"

and then posted later

"Bingo bango, Energy Suspension part # 9.8140 fits the bill. Fits standard straight eye (as the Bilstein has), .750" ID, 1.5625 overall length.
"

Here are the demensions I found

9-8108G = 1.438 in. Long, .750 in. I.D., 1.0/1.125 in. O.D.
and
9-8140G = 1.563 in. Long, .750 in. I.D., 1.063 in. O.D.

I know Bulesky, you have been useing the 9-8108G (hour glass style) with no issues so far, so why change, correct? But in terms of longevity is the 9-8140G something to consider?

I'm tempted to purchase both since they are relatively cheap, first try with the flat bushing, if it doesn't work out then go with the hr glass one. What are your thoughts?

Shan

 

[Bluesky 07]

Very interesting. What that poster says makes perfect sense. I remember pressing them in and thinking that the shape was odd b/c it didn’t really seem made for the straight eye. But that’s what everyone else was using so I just shrugged it off. I looked at the recommended part on Amazon & my only concern is the lip on each side. As long as the lip is outside the eye on each side, that one seems perfect.

Good catch & thanks for answering the question I was asking myself about whether to try reusing my current bushings or buying new with the 2020 Tacoma setup I’m getting. I will be ordering the straight bushings.

 

[crobinson926]

The Bilstein 5100s let you adjust the front ride height. 4 settings, stock, .85", 1.75", and 2.5". This is done by adjusting the bottom spring perch. In reality this is putting a pre-load on the spring by compressing it, similar to some spacer lifts (when the spacer I'd on the spring inside the strut vs top spacer).

Hope that helps.

Anyone know if Bilstein 6112's follow the same height adjustments? Looking at 6112s as a potential option in fronts..

 

[PNWLivin]

I'm hoping someone can add some insight to my situation.

I'm looking to lift 2-2.5" in the front. I am looking at the Ironman4x4 kit as it's a good deal right now.

Their performance springs advertised as 2" lift for 4runner:
Material Diameter 18mm
Free Height 375mm
End I/D 66/76mm
Spring Rate 145(N/mm)
Spring Rate 827(lbf/in)

Comfort springs advertised as a 1.25" lift for FJ:
Free Height 380mm
End I/D 66/76mm
Spring Rate 106(N/mm)
Spring Rate 606(lbf/in)

The spring rate for the performance coils is way higher and I don't have any additional weight in front or plan on adding any. Since the free height is slightly taller on the comfort coils can I expect to get around 2" out of them? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Does anyone know the free height of the stock coils?

 

[andreylights]

I'm hoping someone can add some insight to my situation.

I'm looking to lift 2-2.5" in the front. I am looking at the Ironman4x4 kit as it's a good deal right now.

Their performance springs advertised as 2" lift for 4runner:
Material Diameter 18mm
Free Height 375mm
End I/D 66/76mm
Spring Rate 145(N/mm)
Spring Rate 827(lbf/in)

Comfort springs advertised as a 1.25" lift for FJ:
Free Height 380mm
End I/D 66/76mm
Spring Rate 106(N/mm)
Spring Rate 606(lbf/in)

The spring rate for the performance coils is way higher and I don't have any additional weight in front or plan on adding any. Since the free height is slightly taller on the comfort coils can I expect to get around 2" out of them? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Does anyone know the free height of the stock coils?

STOCK v6 coils 16mm x 100mm/115mm x 345mm - 7.75 coils - 3.7kg - 580lb/in

 

[shan1841]

xreas delete - fj coils - tacoma bilstein 4600

Very interesting. What that poster says makes perfect sense. I remember pressing them in and thinking that the shape was odd b/c it didn’t really seem made for the straight eye. But that’s what everyone else was using so I just shrugged it off. I looked at the recommended part on Amazon & my only concern is the lip on each side. As long as the lip is outside the eye on each side, that one seems perfect.

Good catch & thanks for answering the question I was asking myself about whether to try reusing my current bushings or buying new with the 2020 Tacoma setup I’m getting. I will be ordering the straight bushings.

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

Just a quick update on my suspension upgrade

- xreas delete

- 2013 FJs coils front and back
- 2020 tacoma bilstein 4600 shocks with ( Energy Suspension 9.8140G Shock Bushing Set)
- 2020 tacoma UCAs (plug and play, fits perfect)
- Prothane greasable sway bar bushing front and back
- energy 98105G sway bar link bushing
- KYB SM5640 strut mount top hat

lift (messured from center hub to wheel well)

before:
FL - 19", FR -19"
RL - 21 1/8", RR - 21 1/2"

after (basically 2" up front and 1" in the back)
FL - 21", FR -21"
RL - 22 1/8", RR - 22 1/2"

Ride and steering control has improved significantly. No more bouncing around like a boat when hitting uneven roads. Almost no nosedive when coming to stops. Much less lean while turning corners.

Very happy with the results. Thank you T4R forum, couldn't have done this without you guys.

P.S. have not gotten a alignment yet...not sure if I should drive it and let it settle a bit first or align it right away. Thoughts?


-

 

[Dan6789]

Hello, I am looking at a take off set of springs and shocks from a 2020 5th gen TRD off-road. Does anyone know if these shocks are twin tube or monotube? I am trying to decide if it's worth it to pick up this set or just wait until I can upgrade to 5100's and OME springs.

 

[nlau87]

Bilstein 5100 FTW

I got Bilstein 5100’s 4 years ago because my shocks were blown. No regrets!

 

[Bluesky 07]

[MENTION=114846]Bluesky 07[/MENTION]

Just a quick update on my suspension upgrade

- xreas delete

- 2013 FJs coils front and back
- 2020 tacoma bilstein 4600 shocks with ( Energy Suspension 9.8140G Shock Bushing Set)
- 2020 tacoma UCAs (plug and play, fits perfect)
- Prothane greasable sway bar bushing front and back
- energy 98105G sway bar link bushing
- KYB SM5640 strut mount top hat

lift (messured from center hub to wheel well)

before:
FL - 19", FR -19"
RL - 21 1/8", RR - 21 1/2"

after (basically 2" up front and 1" in the back)
FL - 21", FR -21"
RL - 22 1/8", RR - 22 1/2"

Ride and steering control has improved significantly. No more bouncing around like a boat when hitting uneven roads. Almost no nosedive when coming to stops. Much less lean while turning corners.

Very happy with the results. Thank you T4R forum, couldn't have done this without you guys.

P.S. have not gotten a alignment yet...not sure if I should drive it and let it settle a bit first or align it right away. Thoughts?


-

Nice! Glad that worked out. I got my 2020 Tacoma gear and am working up to the install. Just got the old bushings out. I got the straight replacements and while they're not in just yet, they definitely look like a better way to go than the hourglass. Thanks again for that tip.

About the alignment, I'm not only no expert, I don't know much about such things but my gut says get it done sooner rather than later. With that said, if someone knows differently, I love to learn! ;-)

 

[sammage]

Nice! Glad that worked out. I got my 2020 Tacoma gear and am working up to the install. Just got the old bushings out. I got the straight replacements and while they're not in just yet, they definitely look like a better way to go than the hourglass. Thanks again for that tip.

About the alignment, I'm not only no expert, I don't know much about such things but my gut says get it done sooner rather than later. With that said, if someone knows differently, I love to learn! ;-)

What method did you use for removing the old bushings? Haven't tried all of them yet, but looking at renting a pitman puller.