4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[y=mx+b]

Postin this in a couple areas to get advice before I can make my own thread. Any advice appreciated!

Problem: Getting bad rubbing during turns on rear of front wheel well and on body mounts. Want to clear rubbing and make this thing at least somewhat capable on and offroad. Red area in pic.

Setup:
2006 4Runner V8 Limited 4WD
Coastal Steel front bumper (~120lbs I think)
Bilstein 5100's front (2.5" lift) and rear (unsure of lift setting)
Bilstein coils / springs in the back (B12 heavy springs)
OEM coils / springs up front
285/70/17 tires (32.8" diameter)
FJ 17" Wheels with 1.25" Spidertrax spacers
JBA High Caster Upper Control Arms

Questions: What can fix this?

Would OME 886 coils in front on 0" Bilsteins achieve more lift to help this? I went to alignment shop and asked for as close to 4° caster as they could give me but they basically lowered them both I'm at 3.3°L/2.77°R and getting pretty bad rubbing. Was hoping to make this thing at least somewhat capable offroad, and at least driveable on the road lol. What else can I do, or do I just need new / smaller tires?

Increasing positive Caster at the UCA reduces clearance at the body mount, since you're bringing the top of the spindle backwards. Increasing positive caster from the LCA increases clearance at the body mount, since you're bringing the bottom of the spindle forwards.

With the JBAs, you get the ease of alignment and no fiddling with both UCA and LCA positions, but sometimes the fixed caster increase at the UCA causes rubbing issues at the body mount

With SPC UCAs, or really any adjustable UCA, you can kinda ride the line between overall caster and tire fitment. For maximum clearance at the body mount with SPCs, set the LCA to a maximum caster setting and the UCAs to a minimal caster setting. This brings both the LCA and UCA forward, but sacrifices overall caster. Depending on tire size, you can work the alignment/handling and fitment to balance to your liking

Suspension lifts only fit bigger tires at ride height, so changing the springs won't really help. When you stuff the tire in the wheel well, anything over stock size going to need some tweaking.

Lots of people chop the body mount close to the bushings to help with clearance there

I believe those Trail Edition / FJ wheels I'm running have a +15mm (1.5") offset, but with the Spidertrax 1.25" spacers I believe that is reduced to about a +6mm offset (is that correct?) Wouldn't a -10 offset make for a pretty damn wide stance?

You are correct, those wheels you have are +15mm. However, SpiderTrax 1.25" spacers are like adding -31.75mm offset to your wheels. So with SpiderTrax spacers on your wheels, you're looking at about 15mm - 31.75mm = -16.75mm offset

 

[Flesh Eater]

Does anyone know off hand if there are any current build threads using the 2" OME lift set up, and using their Runner for camping/traveling mainly?

Just bought a super clean, like-new 08' Runner...and I feel like I'm late to the party. Most of the searches I've done are to members' pages that have moved on to 5th gen Runners.

My main interest is gauging the proper front and rear coils for a vehicle that will be used 99% of the time for traveling/camping with a load for a week or two of gear. Also kind of wondering if 885 up front and 896 or 897 in the rear will retain the factory rake, which is what I need, for sure.

Thanks!

 

[blakkbox]

Increasing positive Caster at the UCA reduces clearance at the body mount, since you're bringing the top of the spindle backwards. Increasing positive caster from the LCA increases clearance at the body mount, since you're bringing the bottom of the spindle forwards.

With the JBAs, you get the ease of alignment and no fiddling with both UCA and LCA positions, but sometimes the fixed caster increase at the UCA causes rubbing issues at the body mount

With SPC UCAs, or really any adjustable UCA, you can kinda ride the line between overall caster and tire fitment. For maximum clearance at the body mount with SPCs, set the LCA to a maximum caster setting and the UCAs to a minimal caster setting. This brings both the LCA and UCA forward, but sacrifices overall caster. Depending on tire size, you can work the alignment/handling and fitment to balance to your liking

Suspension lifts only fit bigger tires at ride height, so changing the springs won't really help. When you stuff the tire in the wheel well, anything over stock size going to need some tweaking.

Lots of people chop the body mount close to the bushings to help with clearance there


You are correct, those wheels you have are +15mm. However, SpiderTrax 1.25" spacers are like adding -31.75mm offset to your wheels. So with SpiderTrax spacers on your wheels, you're looking at about 15mm - 31.75mm = -16.75mm offset

Thanks for the reply, and correcting my thinking there. So, it sounds like I need to get caster as high as possible at the LCA's, but may not really be able to get around a BMC with these size tires? Unless perhaps increasing my offset to get close to 0 would help? I linked to a guy above with the exact same wheel / tire setup as me with seemingly no issues (diff springs and shocks, but similar) and am wondering what it is that's making such a difference on my setup. Seems most ppl here think further lift isn't gonna help though, so I'll take that into consideration.

One thing I don't fully understand that you said: wouldn't bringing the top of the spindle backwards sort of increase the forward angle overall? If the top went backward, and the bottom forward, that would give the highest overall caster / forward placement of wheels, right? Sorry if I sound dumb lol.

One final thing regarding BMC's: while I do get a slight rub on the body mounts, what do y'all do about the rub on the wheel well plastic for that inch or two right before it gets to the body mounts (i.e. during turning when outside corner of tire rubs)? Just let that slide?

 

[y=mx+b]

Thanks for the reply, and correcting my thinking there. So, it sounds like I need to get caster as high as possible at the LCA's, but may not really be able to get around a BMC with these size tires? Unless perhaps increasing my offset to get close to 0 would help? I linked to a guy above with the exact same wheel / tire setup as me with seemingly no issues (diff springs and shocks, but similar) and am wondering what it is that's making such a difference on my setup. Seems most ppl here think further lift isn't gonna help though, so I'll take that into consideration.

One thing I don't fully understand that you said: wouldn't bringing the top of the spindle backwards sort of increase the forward angle overall? If the top went backward, and the bottom forward, that would give the highest overall caster / forward placement of wheels, right? Sorry if I sound dumb lol.

One final thing regarding BMC's: while I do get a slight rub on the body mounts, what do y'all do about the rub on the wheel well plastic for that inch or two right before it gets to the body mounts (i.e. during turning when outside corner of tire rubs)? Just let that slide?

The slight issue with a non-adjustable UCA is that don't have much play in the alignment. You get overall higher caster, which is better for road handling, but when you mess with one variable, like caster, you may throw camber off. This is the reason SPC has the sliding UBJ to fix camber after everything else is dialed. However, SPCs aren't as easy to align and many shops won't touch them.

Another difficulty, is that usually we're trying to communicate these alignment specs to a tech that may not understand why we want these specific numbers, so they may be more inclined to just set to 3*, since thats the spec. They might not know the UCAs have changed the 4runner specific alignment/fitment geometry. You could also look into aligning yourself. Its a tad complicated but if you mess up, could always take it back for a lifetime alignment at Firestone or somewhere. Most of the alignment can be done with a digital angle finder and some string. Heres one link: How to do an Alignment at Home | Tacoma World and Donut Media Money Pit did a good video on home alignment as well.

The BMC is kind of a necessary evil. Yeah its a pain to hack up part of your frame and makes it questionably less safe, but you can gain a lot of clearance by putting it on weight wachers

For the fender liners, stretch them like this and you'll gain about an 1" of room up front:

Before and After


Stock Hole Position vs New Hole. I only used one clip. I know some people drill the bumper cover, but I'm still a weenie and didn't want to mess it up. I know its on the bottom, like I said, I'm a weenie. Drilling the liner worked just as well


And this is the driver side from the bottom


The passenger side is very similar, although it has 3 clips between the liner and bumper vs the 2 on the driver side. I used 2/3 clips on this side

 

[blakkbox]

The slight issue with a non-adjustable UCA is that don't have much play in the alignment. You get overall higher caster, which is better for road handling, but when you mess with one variable, like caster, you may throw camber off. This is the reason SPC has the sliding UBJ to fix camber after everything else is dialed. However, SPCs aren't as easy to align and many shops won't touch them.

Another difficulty, is that usually we're trying to communicate these alignment specs to a tech that may not understand why we want these specific numbers, so they may be more inclined to just set to 3*, since thats the spec. They might not know the UCAs have changed the 4runner specific alignment/fitment geometry. You could also look into aligning yourself. Its a tad complicated but if you mess up, could always take it back for a lifetime alignment at Firestone or somewhere. Most of the alignment can be done with a digital angle finder and some string. Heres one link: How to do an Alignment at Home | Tacoma World and Donut Media Money Pit did a good video on home alignment as well.

The BMC is kind of a necessary evil. Yeah its a pain to hack up part of your frame and makes it questionably less safe, but you can gain a lot of clearance by putting it on weight wachers

For the fender liners, stretch them like this and you'll gain about an 1" of room up front:

Before and After


Stock Hole Position vs New Hole. I only used one clip. I know some people drill the bumper cover, but I'm still a weenie and didn't want to mess it up. I know its on the bottom, like I said, I'm a weenie. Drilling the liner worked just as well


And this is the driver side from the bottom


The passenger side is very similar, although it has 3 clips between the liner and bumper vs the 2 on the driver side. I used 2/3 clips on this side

My camber is in-spec at around .3 on both sides, same with toe at .1 on both sides. Thanks for the link about how to align these yourself, that may come in useful! I would imagine most of the stuff about front bumper clearance doesn't apply to me as I have a Coastal Offroad front bumper installed!

 

[Recove]

5th gen suspension fits on 4th gen?

 

[Recove]

the front shocks will fit but if you want to lift your vehicle get some actual shocks and you can use the 5th gen coils, the 5th gen shocks will fit the rear but you have to modify the frame. I used the stock 4th gen coils with bilstein 5100s on the front set to 2.5” and stock 5th gen coils on the rear with bilstien 5100s it pretty much leveled the vehicle out and gave it about 3” of lift and it’s a lot smoother. You get get a full set of 5100s for around $450 and it’s well worth it if you want more than 3” of lift you’ll have to get different UCAs (not stock)


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You know if 5th gen front coils fits on 4th gen? And how high it would be?

 

[y=mx+b]

My camber is in-spec at around .3 on both sides, same with toe at .1 on both sides. Thanks for the link about how to align these yourself, that may come in useful! I would imagine most of the stuff about front bumper clearance doesn't apply to me as I have a Coastal Offroad front bumper installed!

Gotcha, sorry I missed the coastal mention and rubbing on plastic sent me right to stretching fender liners. I see you mean rear plastic now. That rubbing is likely a function of wheel offset and camber from UCA. A little trimming of the liner and BMC would solve all of your rubbing issues. If you really don't want to trim or BMC, then might be time to switch to SPCs or something else adjustable. It sucks, to cut up some good truck, but is a necessary evil to get clearance throughout the whole range of suspension travel

 

[matphat]

Cram them in

So, my 2008 v8 has been really capable with a OME 2/1" lift and 265/70R17 for the last 6 years, but I'm feeling like its time to rework it a bit.

I was originally going to go with a 3" lift upgrade and 33s but then started thinking that some other upgrades for the money might be better.
I was thinking I might try and cram some 32s under that lift and then spend the extra money on some armor.

So the question is, what would it take to safely put something like a 275/70R17 under there or even possibly a 285/70R17? Can it be done on this 2/1" lift? Or do I need to bite the bullet and just go with a new 3" lift?

 

[timbird1219]

You know if 5th gen front coils fits on 4th gen? And how high it would be?

The 5th gen coils fit the ride height shouldn’t really be affected all that much maybe a inch to half a inch at most I would assume. I plan on putting 5th gen coils on my bilsteins instead of the stock coils


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[Bluesky 07]

I highly recommend 3rd Gen Tacoma (2016-up) front coilovers for a good stance. Not quite perfectly level but very close. The angle here makes the front look a bit higher than it is but will give a sense of what to expect with the 3rd Gen Tacoma front setup. Tires are stock size & I have Spidertrax spacers.

Ride is terrific too.

 

[cKarcz]

Suspension Options

I have a 2003 4.7 4wd w/out xreas. I picked up a set of 5160’s for the rear but I’m struggling to make a decision about the rest of my lift. I’m currently at stock weight and I don’t plan on adding bumpers anytime soon as they’re not in my budget lmao. I’m aiming for 2-3” of lift front and back any suggestions?

 

[Tironeous]

I have a 2003 4.7 4wd w/out xreas. I picked up a set of 5160’s for the rear but I’m struggling to make a decision about the rest of my lift. I’m currently at stock weight and I don’t plan on adding bumpers anytime soon as they’re not in my budget lmao. I’m aiming for 2-3” of lift front and back any suggestions?

What springs are you putting in the rear to go with your 5160s? If you got 5160s you might as well get 6112 for the front. I debated on stock 600lb springs or upgraded 650lb springs to compensate for the added weight of the V8. I don’t have skids or any other added weight. I landed up the 650lb springs after reading some posts by @%1;
I haven’t received them yet so can’t provide input on how they perform.

For the rear I went with Icon 2” springs.


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[cKarcz]

What springs are you putting in the rear to go with your 5160s? If you got 5160s you might as well get 6112 for the front. I debated on stock 600lb springs or upgraded 650lb springs to compensate for the added weight of the V8. I don’t have skids or any other added weight. I landed up the 650lb springs after reading some posts by @%1;
I haven’t received them yet so can’t provide input on how they perform.

For the rear I went with Icon 2” springs.


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I was debating between the icon 2” and toytec’s 2” for the rear. The 6112’s are what I’m leaning toward for the front. Some 8112’s would be great just not great on my wallet. The only added weight I will have soon is a drawer system which will probably add another 200 pounds give or take

 

[OlBillyFreckleFace]

V8 Lift Options @ 140K

I have an '04 with a 2.5"/1.5" Daystar kit and XREAS. Since the XREAS seems to be on its way out, am considering options to get a 3", level lift.

I added a Daystar kit a few years ago, but the clearance is much lower than I wanted and MUCH stiffer. I just picked up stock-size tires for a steal, so the tires will be the stock until I get new ones at some point.

Would Bilstein 5100's, set to 2.5" with 0.5" spacers, be noticeably taller and softer than XREAS + Daystar? Would a 3.5" be too much given the stock tire setup? Is there a way to get something that rides higher on stock tires, but can be adjusted if I later get bigger tires?

For 3" lift, would it be advisable to also have UCA's installed at the same time? I found a Skyjacker set online that's almost half the price of major brands, but I'm leery of shoddy equipment.

Also, what kind of springs would anyone recommend?

Some posts talk about moving the sway bars, but I don't think I would need one yet, or am I wrong if I'm deleting the XREAS and adding a lift?

 

[WyEast-08]

I am getting ready to my 2.5" Dobinson lift but still am struggling with
tires and potential wheels.
I have a 2008 V8 with 265/65/18 right now and considering the following;
265/70/17 SL 47Lbs
275/70/17 C 57lbs
275/65/18 SL 47lbs

Most of what we do is local driving but we do a bit of camping and fishing, forest and gravel roads. Maybe looking into light overlanding. We do pull a small 5x8' trailer with camping gear and raft.

Im concerned that that the 265/70/17 will look small with the lift and the 275/70/17 at 57lbs each may be a gas eater.
Other than potential price and availability is there any other reason to stay away from 18 wheels, like shorter sidewall?

 

[cKarcz]

Is there anyway possible you can fit 3rd gen rear coil springs on a 4th gen? Someone in my area is selling toytec 3” lift springs for a steal and I’m not sure if they would fit.


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[JBend]

Anyone have any experience with the dobinson MRR 3 way adjustable suspension for our cars?

 

[Bluesky 07]

I highly recommend 3rd Gen Tacoma (2016-up) front coilovers for a good stance. Not quite perfectly level but very close. The angle here makes the front look a bit higher than it is but will give a sense of what to expect with the 3rd Gen Tacoma front setup. Tires are stock size & I have Spidertrax spacers.

Ride is terrific too.

Here is a side profile pic that more accurately depicts the slightly rear-high stance with my current setup:

 

[Heffernan]

Here is a side profile pic that more accurately depicts the slightly rear-high stance with my current setup:

Did you need aftermarket UCAs?