5th Gen 4Runner Safety
- Thread starter 1engineer
- Start date
BlackWorksInc
New member
The future of safety:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RnyhkBU1yaw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Also why I do not want a self-driving car...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RnyhkBU1yaw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Also why I do not want a self-driving car...
CatskillsRunner
New member
I went from a '95 Jeep Wrangler to a Prius once I found out I was pregnant. The Prius lasted a hot minute in my driveway, and was replaced by a 2008 4Runner and then with the 2010.
Heres what I like about it from a safety perspective...
It places me high up. The visibility is great.
Many accidents on the road I travel most involve fatalities. You can go 65 in many places, but drivers are often on their phones and it is only 2 lanes. I like that the 4Runner is taller than many vehicles out there. I have seen enough head on collisions on this road to make me feel much better out of that very-close-to-the-road Prius.
The biggest danger I face is deer. I had 3 close calls last fall and was very glad to be in the 4Runner, especially when I saw what happened to a Prius when a large doe came through its windshield. There was blood and matter lodged well into the interior of the car. The deer had come into the actual car.
A guy I recently met swung into the post office with his 80 series to talk about our trucks. He said his wife hit a deer with his truck and he merely had the hose the ARB off. I liked that idea but I have become too nervous to get a bumper, even after drooling over the one [MENTION=47340]Titanpat57[/MENTION] has on his a few weeks ago at OEX. I like all the engineering that went into my factory bumper, even if the front overlap test wasn't exactly impressive. I would feel differently if I was the only one who rode in it, but I have to have a safe vehicle for my daughter.
I know that the ARB has gone through testing, but there are so many variables in accidents to begin with that it just scares me too much to do that mod. I have to know that those airbags will deploy when they need to.
Heres what I like about it from a safety perspective...
It places me high up. The visibility is great.
Many accidents on the road I travel most involve fatalities. You can go 65 in many places, but drivers are often on their phones and it is only 2 lanes. I like that the 4Runner is taller than many vehicles out there. I have seen enough head on collisions on this road to make me feel much better out of that very-close-to-the-road Prius.
The biggest danger I face is deer. I had 3 close calls last fall and was very glad to be in the 4Runner, especially when I saw what happened to a Prius when a large doe came through its windshield. There was blood and matter lodged well into the interior of the car. The deer had come into the actual car.
A guy I recently met swung into the post office with his 80 series to talk about our trucks. He said his wife hit a deer with his truck and he merely had the hose the ARB off. I liked that idea but I have become too nervous to get a bumper, even after drooling over the one [MENTION=47340]Titanpat57[/MENTION] has on his a few weeks ago at OEX. I like all the engineering that went into my factory bumper, even if the front overlap test wasn't exactly impressive. I would feel differently if I was the only one who rode in it, but I have to have a safe vehicle for my daughter.
I know that the ARB has gone through testing, but there are so many variables in accidents to begin with that it just scares me too much to do that mod. I have to know that those airbags will deploy when they need to.
1engineer
Moderator
Here ya go http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/179822-maybe-end-mebe4runnings-reign-4.html and that is a preview for what I am working on now.
CatskillsRunner
New member
Yep, I remember it.
TravelWest01
New member
Battering Ram
I do believe that safety (specifically MY safety) is important, which is why I like my ARB bumper. Based on how sturdy it is compared to the OEM bumper, I think it is reasonable to think that I will crush anyone I rear end! Additionally, since it is high, I may just go right up over them and keep going....
I do believe that safety (specifically MY safety) is important, which is why I like my ARB bumper. Based on how sturdy it is compared to the OEM bumper, I think it is reasonable to think that I will crush anyone I rear end! Additionally, since it is high, I may just go right up over them and keep going....
2014 Warthog
New member
Overall the 5th gen 4runner is a pretty safe vehicle.
As others have said though modding it can make it less safe, and in the end, modded or not it is a heavy SUV and it can be a handful in a panic situation on and offroad.
I like racing around in the desert but man you have to allow for a long braking distance in the wash or you'll be kissing the wall of a canyon in no time.
This... not sure if this is safe IMHO. I had to stomp on the breaks on the freeway at speed as some clown drifted quickly into my lane. At the same time I veered away from him to avoid being hit and the combination of the swerve and hard breaking had the nose diving to the drivers corner to an alarming degree with a surprising amount of breaking force. Had I disconnected the front sway bar like a lot of people do I probably would have rolled.
TL : DR 4Runner has made good strides in safety in the later years, but still a big heavy SUV and when modded even more prone to the problems that big heavy cars/trucks have. So you do need to purposely drive safely!
As others have said though modding it can make it less safe, and in the end, modded or not it is a heavy SUV and it can be a handful in a panic situation on and offroad.
I like racing around in the desert but man you have to allow for a long braking distance in the wash or you'll be kissing the wall of a canyon in no time.
This... not sure if this is safe IMHO. I had to stomp on the breaks on the freeway at speed as some clown drifted quickly into my lane. At the same time I veered away from him to avoid being hit and the combination of the swerve and hard breaking had the nose diving to the drivers corner to an alarming degree with a surprising amount of breaking force. Had I disconnected the front sway bar like a lot of people do I probably would have rolled.
TL : DR 4Runner has made good strides in safety in the later years, but still a big heavy SUV and when modded even more prone to the problems that big heavy cars/trucks have. So you do need to purposely drive safely!
I have been talking to a radio shop about this, a guy that does surveillance systems had a FILR PTZ camera hidden in front and back of his car and it is wifi so he links up to it with any wifi device. Kind of cool I am sure I can find a use for it.
KidVermicious
New member
You shush. Windshields are a safety feature, you know, it's got those. :laugh:
1engineer
Moderator
Why Elevators Have Doors
Alright. First I need to put some disclaimers up front:
1. This post is in no shape, way or form directed specifically at any one or group of people. Don't come back and post your indignant (read: butthurt) replies thinking this post was somehow directed at you. Don't flatter yourself. I have been wanting to do a post like this since end of last year when Ollie wrapped his 4Runner around a tree. These 4Runners are your property and you can do what you want. It's not up to me or anyone else to judge. Got it? If you don't like what I am about to say simply put me on your "ignore" list along with the others who have already done so. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here but I probably will because the truth and facts usually go against someone's beliefs.
2. For the purpose of this article I want to classify "safety" into two separate categories: (A) Proactive Safety and (B) Reactive Safety. What's the difference?
Proactive safety, in the context of this article, is everything that can be done to PREVENT an accident. Your braking system, your reaction time, your tires, road conditions, greenhouse visibility, etc. would be examples of proactive safety. This article WILL NOT be discussing these conditions or situations as they are different and have a high variability rate depending on the operator and conditions.
Reactive safety is everything else. Airbags, safety belts, crumple zones, OEM armor, ABS, VSC and all the electronic devices designed to help in an accident. THIS is what I will be discussing today. Ready?
Back in the day when I was doing heavy mods to vehicles, the biggest new safety feature was the addition of shoulder belts to augment the lap belts. That and the new hoods that had a notch built into the underside hood structure that would allow a hood to buckle on impact, instead of being driven back through the windshield and acting as a decapitation device. That's all. Nothing else. No electronics suite, no crumple zones or anything else in my Chevy trucks that I had to worry about. When we lifted, cut, welded, tucked and increased performance it was easy as we had nothing else to restrict our actions. ECU? No such thing. Airbags? Only the stupid friends sitting in the passenger seat. OK, enough about the old days. Suffice to say it was easy to mod!
Now I want to get a few things off my chest before going into 4Runner safety:
* To the guy who was questioning (and making fun of) why they would run a crash test with the head restraints removed: Because it was a front end crash and they needed a clear path view to film the dummy movement. Watch the links below.
* To the guy(s) who decide they are smarter than the engineers who designed this vehicle: Get real. Individually you might know something that one of the Toyota engineers don't but do not fool yourselves into thinking you know more than the entire engineering team about anything as it pertains to the 4Runner. When you change something, anything, it usually is only an improvement in your mind. That's fine of course because it's your vehicle to do with what you wish. Just don't come here touting what you did to be an overall improvement. Any design is a compromise. Changing it more only makes it more of a compromise. You don’t model and you don’t test so you don’t have a clue until something breaks or fails.
Safety equipment in vehicles is a relatively new concept. I believe it was the late '50's or early '60's before anyone really cared what happened to people in an accident. Seat belts, crumple zones, airbags and electronic aids have now become a major design element (and selling feature) of vehicles. Oh, and they work. Even as vehicle sales increase, the number of accidents, injuries and deaths are decreasing, all because of these safety features.
Even though safety features in vehicles is relatively new, engineered safety in product design is not. It has been going on for hundreds of years. We use a term in engineering called a "Safety Factor." Certain products are regulated to include a certain safety factor. Elevators, for example, I think have around a 10:1 safety factor. Even when a product is not regulated engineers always design in some type of safety factor. Why? Because consumers are not very smart that’s why! Why do elevators have doors? Why does there need to be a warning label on a ladder telling you not to stand on the top rung? Why do coffee cups say “Caution: Hot!” Because people right?
Vehicles have all these safety features because the majority of people are not adept enough to operate a vehicle consistently in a safe manner. Now you can tell me how good you are [MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] but you can’t control that lady texting on the phone driving next to you nor can you even control something as simple as when you sneeze at a critical moment like a lane change. How about that loud noise that causes you to turn your head? Yes, nobody, no matter how good a driver they THINK they are, is good enough to control everyone and everything around them. This is why we have safety components in a vehicle, well, and the people who are just plain terrible at driving.
Actually though, the 4Runner is not as safe as it could be. Why? Stupid people again of course. If I wanted to make the 4Runner as safe as possible I would weld in a full cage, mount a 5 point harness, wear a helmet and HANS device, install auto fire suppression and kill switch and everything else. Of course we all know that would be terribly uncomfortable and inconvenient and nobody would ever buy a 4Runner if it had those features. It would be the safest vehicle on the road though. Basically engineers do their best to design a safe product within specific parameters and that is why we have the features we do. We can’t change human nature though.
In comparison to other passenger vehicles the 4Runner is pretty safe. First and foremost the mass is larger than the average. In 2012 the average weight of passenger vehicles on the road was around 3,400 lbs compared to the 4Runner of around 4,200 lbs. That extra 800 lbs means a lot in an accident. Why? (this is a key point) If both vehicles are designed to dissipate their kinetic energy in a crash at a specific speed without hurting the occupants then if they ran head first into each other the heavier vehicle will always win. Always. That’s not to say the 4Runner is not without fault. While I think the small offset crash test focuses on a very specific crash that is statistically small it still can happen. Note the video links below and see that the 4Runner does not perform very well. Otherwise? In stock form it does just fine.
So how does the 4Runner do in a modified state? Is it safe? Is it as safe as a stock 4Runner? Unless you add the cage and helmet and harness then the answer is an unequivocal “I don’t know!” I cannot tell you with any certainty that the wicked cool new steel bumper you added is any better, or worse than a stock bumper as far as safety in an accident is concerned. Will it slow down the actuation of the airbag a critical microsecond? Will the change in deceleration be enough that it will snap your passenger’s collarbone? I just don’t know and neither do any of you doing these mods. Here is a testament to the 4Runner in a crash though http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/179822-maybe-end-mebe4runnings-reign-4.html I can’t tell you that cutting the front body mounts all the way back to the bolt (adding a piece of curved steel back on only helps with appearance – sorry) will or will not help keep the tire, wheel and rotor from pushing into the floor of the cabin. I just don’t know. I have no tests, data or modelling to tell me otherwise. You don’t either.
Here’s what I do know: Back in the day people would replace their stock steering wheel with a way cool chrome chain steering wheel. Back then there were no air bags. Nowadays, replacing a collapsible wheel containing an air bag with a piece of welded chain does not sound like too good an idea. Personally I wouldn’t do it. I also wouldn’t rip my air bags out. I also wouldn’t do a body mount chop. I also wouldn’t bolt on a heavy gauge steel bumper. Sounds like I am a safety nut right? Actually, no, no I’m not. Let me explain: If it is only about me and no one else, especially my family or loved ones, I am definitely not a safe guy. I ride mountain bikes. I used to hang glide. I have jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. I run with scissors and sharp sticks. I understand physics. If I can only harm myself and nobody else I take risks and that’s my point. Don’t start the argument that “If you get killed then who will take care of the children” because that is a topic for another thread. Besides, I am worth far more in the ground than I am standing on it. When my children were little I wanted to wrap them in bubble wrap because I was afraid I would drop them. I made sure they were buckled in my minivan (super safe) in the middle seats with proper car seats. I was playing catch with my daughter (softball) once. The ball bounced out of her glove, hit her nose and moved it to the side of her face. It hurt me much more and longer than it ever hurt her. Basically I try my best to take care of others and vehicle safety is a big part of it. Me? Not so much.
Again, I’m not here to berate any specific person. If you think this applies to an individual then you are wrong. I am just a guy on the internet fellas. It’s all good. Last point: Remember that discussion above about ignorant people? Well, a lot of them show up here and they want to have a cool looking truck just like yours. Unfortunately many won’t have thought about any of the safety concerns or the ramifications of any of these mods so please, if you think that a guy who is asking you questions is clueless about this subject then take a minute and explain it to him. You can say that “he’s a big boy” and can make his own decision but you know everyone is not the same. You guys are making an “acceptable risk” judgement and that’s fine with me. Some people can’t or won’t without help though. That’s why we have doors on elevators.
Here are some links you may not have seen yet. Notice the running clock in some of them. Yeah, it happens that fast. Good luck, hopefully most of you know I wrote this to help someone and not hurt anyone and thanks for reading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0i048kS7aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek8ZbJB6p8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJaKxjb7Fw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXcbklGsSs
Alright. First I need to put some disclaimers up front:
1. This post is in no shape, way or form directed specifically at any one or group of people. Don't come back and post your indignant (read: butthurt) replies thinking this post was somehow directed at you. Don't flatter yourself. I have been wanting to do a post like this since end of last year when Ollie wrapped his 4Runner around a tree. These 4Runners are your property and you can do what you want. It's not up to me or anyone else to judge. Got it? If you don't like what I am about to say simply put me on your "ignore" list along with the others who have already done so. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here but I probably will because the truth and facts usually go against someone's beliefs.
2. For the purpose of this article I want to classify "safety" into two separate categories: (A) Proactive Safety and (B) Reactive Safety. What's the difference?
Proactive safety, in the context of this article, is everything that can be done to PREVENT an accident. Your braking system, your reaction time, your tires, road conditions, greenhouse visibility, etc. would be examples of proactive safety. This article WILL NOT be discussing these conditions or situations as they are different and have a high variability rate depending on the operator and conditions.
Reactive safety is everything else. Airbags, safety belts, crumple zones, OEM armor, ABS, VSC and all the electronic devices designed to help in an accident. THIS is what I will be discussing today. Ready?
Back in the day when I was doing heavy mods to vehicles, the biggest new safety feature was the addition of shoulder belts to augment the lap belts. That and the new hoods that had a notch built into the underside hood structure that would allow a hood to buckle on impact, instead of being driven back through the windshield and acting as a decapitation device. That's all. Nothing else. No electronics suite, no crumple zones or anything else in my Chevy trucks that I had to worry about. When we lifted, cut, welded, tucked and increased performance it was easy as we had nothing else to restrict our actions. ECU? No such thing. Airbags? Only the stupid friends sitting in the passenger seat. OK, enough about the old days. Suffice to say it was easy to mod!
Now I want to get a few things off my chest before going into 4Runner safety:
* To the guy who was questioning (and making fun of) why they would run a crash test with the head restraints removed: Because it was a front end crash and they needed a clear path view to film the dummy movement. Watch the links below.
* To the guy(s) who decide they are smarter than the engineers who designed this vehicle: Get real. Individually you might know something that one of the Toyota engineers don't but do not fool yourselves into thinking you know more than the entire engineering team about anything as it pertains to the 4Runner. When you change something, anything, it usually is only an improvement in your mind. That's fine of course because it's your vehicle to do with what you wish. Just don't come here touting what you did to be an overall improvement. Any design is a compromise. Changing it more only makes it more of a compromise. You don’t model and you don’t test so you don’t have a clue until something breaks or fails.
Safety equipment in vehicles is a relatively new concept. I believe it was the late '50's or early '60's before anyone really cared what happened to people in an accident. Seat belts, crumple zones, airbags and electronic aids have now become a major design element (and selling feature) of vehicles. Oh, and they work. Even as vehicle sales increase, the number of accidents, injuries and deaths are decreasing, all because of these safety features.
Even though safety features in vehicles is relatively new, engineered safety in product design is not. It has been going on for hundreds of years. We use a term in engineering called a "Safety Factor." Certain products are regulated to include a certain safety factor. Elevators, for example, I think have around a 10:1 safety factor. Even when a product is not regulated engineers always design in some type of safety factor. Why? Because consumers are not very smart that’s why! Why do elevators have doors? Why does there need to be a warning label on a ladder telling you not to stand on the top rung? Why do coffee cups say “Caution: Hot!” Because people right?
Vehicles have all these safety features because the majority of people are not adept enough to operate a vehicle consistently in a safe manner. Now you can tell me how good you are [MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION] but you can’t control that lady texting on the phone driving next to you nor can you even control something as simple as when you sneeze at a critical moment like a lane change. How about that loud noise that causes you to turn your head? Yes, nobody, no matter how good a driver they THINK they are, is good enough to control everyone and everything around them. This is why we have safety components in a vehicle, well, and the people who are just plain terrible at driving.
Actually though, the 4Runner is not as safe as it could be. Why? Stupid people again of course. If I wanted to make the 4Runner as safe as possible I would weld in a full cage, mount a 5 point harness, wear a helmet and HANS device, install auto fire suppression and kill switch and everything else. Of course we all know that would be terribly uncomfortable and inconvenient and nobody would ever buy a 4Runner if it had those features. It would be the safest vehicle on the road though. Basically engineers do their best to design a safe product within specific parameters and that is why we have the features we do. We can’t change human nature though.
In comparison to other passenger vehicles the 4Runner is pretty safe. First and foremost the mass is larger than the average. In 2012 the average weight of passenger vehicles on the road was around 3,400 lbs compared to the 4Runner of around 4,200 lbs. That extra 800 lbs means a lot in an accident. Why? (this is a key point) If both vehicles are designed to dissipate their kinetic energy in a crash at a specific speed without hurting the occupants then if they ran head first into each other the heavier vehicle will always win. Always. That’s not to say the 4Runner is not without fault. While I think the small offset crash test focuses on a very specific crash that is statistically small it still can happen. Note the video links below and see that the 4Runner does not perform very well. Otherwise? In stock form it does just fine.
So how does the 4Runner do in a modified state? Is it safe? Is it as safe as a stock 4Runner? Unless you add the cage and helmet and harness then the answer is an unequivocal “I don’t know!” I cannot tell you with any certainty that the wicked cool new steel bumper you added is any better, or worse than a stock bumper as far as safety in an accident is concerned. Will it slow down the actuation of the airbag a critical microsecond? Will the change in deceleration be enough that it will snap your passenger’s collarbone? I just don’t know and neither do any of you doing these mods. Here is a testament to the 4Runner in a crash though http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/179822-maybe-end-mebe4runnings-reign-4.html I can’t tell you that cutting the front body mounts all the way back to the bolt (adding a piece of curved steel back on only helps with appearance – sorry) will or will not help keep the tire, wheel and rotor from pushing into the floor of the cabin. I just don’t know. I have no tests, data or modelling to tell me otherwise. You don’t either.
Here’s what I do know: Back in the day people would replace their stock steering wheel with a way cool chrome chain steering wheel. Back then there were no air bags. Nowadays, replacing a collapsible wheel containing an air bag with a piece of welded chain does not sound like too good an idea. Personally I wouldn’t do it. I also wouldn’t rip my air bags out. I also wouldn’t do a body mount chop. I also wouldn’t bolt on a heavy gauge steel bumper. Sounds like I am a safety nut right? Actually, no, no I’m not. Let me explain: If it is only about me and no one else, especially my family or loved ones, I am definitely not a safe guy. I ride mountain bikes. I used to hang glide. I have jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. I run with scissors and sharp sticks. I understand physics. If I can only harm myself and nobody else I take risks and that’s my point. Don’t start the argument that “If you get killed then who will take care of the children” because that is a topic for another thread. Besides, I am worth far more in the ground than I am standing on it. When my children were little I wanted to wrap them in bubble wrap because I was afraid I would drop them. I made sure they were buckled in my minivan (super safe) in the middle seats with proper car seats. I was playing catch with my daughter (softball) once. The ball bounced out of her glove, hit her nose and moved it to the side of her face. It hurt me much more and longer than it ever hurt her. Basically I try my best to take care of others and vehicle safety is a big part of it. Me? Not so much.
Again, I’m not here to berate any specific person. If you think this applies to an individual then you are wrong. I am just a guy on the internet fellas. It’s all good. Last point: Remember that discussion above about ignorant people? Well, a lot of them show up here and they want to have a cool looking truck just like yours. Unfortunately many won’t have thought about any of the safety concerns or the ramifications of any of these mods so please, if you think that a guy who is asking you questions is clueless about this subject then take a minute and explain it to him. You can say that “he’s a big boy” and can make his own decision but you know everyone is not the same. You guys are making an “acceptable risk” judgement and that’s fine with me. Some people can’t or won’t without help though. That’s why we have doors on elevators.
Here are some links you may not have seen yet. Notice the running clock in some of them. Yeah, it happens that fast. Good luck, hopefully most of you know I wrote this to help someone and not hurt anyone and thanks for reading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0i048kS7aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek8ZbJB6p8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJaKxjb7Fw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVXcbklGsSs
dubveeT4R
New member
You can enter a destination into the navigation unit through Entune/Bing/Voice search while driving.
Why I purchased a 4Runner
I always drove with the mindset that I could avoid most car accidents by paying attention and proactively avoiding potential causes of accidents (mostly inattentive drivers). Last Christmas morning, I was driving my Mazda3 up to the local ski hill with my best friend. It was a sunny day after a good storm, and the snow on the road had largely melted, except around this blind corner that was in the shade. As I approached the corner, a suburban was sliding sideways downhill into oncoming traffic (me) at about 35 mph. I was under complete control of my vehicle (solid snow tires) as I looked to the right and saw the cement barricade to prevent cars from going over the cliff; looked to the left and realized I wouldn't have time to avoid being smashed. By the time the suburban hit me, I was almost completely stopped. The driver was able to straighten out a little just before hitting me head-on at the front left of my car. The suburban rammed through the top part of my hood/engine compartment and almost reached the windshield/cabin on my side. Both of the airbags went off but absent some minor whiplash, both my friend and I were ok. Based on the empty beer cans and the smell of alcohol on his breath, the driver probably had a morning of moderate boozing. He gave me his insurance information and a videotapped admission of guilt, but for some reason he didn't want to stick around for the cops to get there (at least he called his insurance that day and admitted fault). That same week, I bought my 4Runner. Sometimes I wonder if I would have been ok if the Suburban had a lift or bumper.
Here are some after crash pics of both vehicles:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFVG9EZng0Vnp3RFU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFUzh0N1MyWXlNMFE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFUjNIS3ZVWWROMmc/view?usp=sharing
I always drove with the mindset that I could avoid most car accidents by paying attention and proactively avoiding potential causes of accidents (mostly inattentive drivers). Last Christmas morning, I was driving my Mazda3 up to the local ski hill with my best friend. It was a sunny day after a good storm, and the snow on the road had largely melted, except around this blind corner that was in the shade. As I approached the corner, a suburban was sliding sideways downhill into oncoming traffic (me) at about 35 mph. I was under complete control of my vehicle (solid snow tires) as I looked to the right and saw the cement barricade to prevent cars from going over the cliff; looked to the left and realized I wouldn't have time to avoid being smashed. By the time the suburban hit me, I was almost completely stopped. The driver was able to straighten out a little just before hitting me head-on at the front left of my car. The suburban rammed through the top part of my hood/engine compartment and almost reached the windshield/cabin on my side. Both of the airbags went off but absent some minor whiplash, both my friend and I were ok. Based on the empty beer cans and the smell of alcohol on his breath, the driver probably had a morning of moderate boozing. He gave me his insurance information and a videotapped admission of guilt, but for some reason he didn't want to stick around for the cops to get there (at least he called his insurance that day and admitted fault). That same week, I bought my 4Runner. Sometimes I wonder if I would have been ok if the Suburban had a lift or bumper.
Here are some after crash pics of both vehicles:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFVG9EZng0Vnp3RFU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFUzh0N1MyWXlNMFE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6nngK1IhkPFUjNIS3ZVWWROMmc/view?usp=sharing
Friggin Idiot
Senior Member
If you're going to comment on someone's post, you should try reading the whole thing first.
KidVermicious
New member
I figured this was where you're coming from, Greg, and I hear you, but this bit:
It's impossible to control everything, you're exactly right, and I don't try. It's also impossible to remove all risk from daily life, no matter how hard we try. I think that the current zeitgeist in Western culture demanding that we do our best anyway is a Bad Idea. We are having more and more options removed from us by government and industry in the name of keeping us "safer" (and I'm not just talking about cars here), the logical conclusion of which is all of us having all our decisions made for us and being taken care of by robots and never leaving the house. Obviously that's ridiculous, it'll never get that far. The pendulum will swing the other way eventually, if not in our lifetime. My point is that I choose to be as unencumbered by that ongoing process as possible. When I say "I am my own safety", I mean exactly that. I am responsible for my own well being, nobody else, and if I make a conscious decision to bypass a safety feature on a truck in order to increase my enjoyment of it, that's a decision I've made with open eyes after weighing the pros and cons, and I won't be berated for it.
I appreciate your post, I think it's good to raise awareness of the fact that mods like lifts and bumpers and body chops and such make a vehicle less safe. I'm sure lots of guys don't think about that sort of thing before they start in. But parts of your post lean towards scolding those of us who have chosen to make those mods anyway, or it seems that way to me, and to the extent that you might have intended that, I object.
It's impossible to control everything, you're exactly right, and I don't try. It's also impossible to remove all risk from daily life, no matter how hard we try. I think that the current zeitgeist in Western culture demanding that we do our best anyway is a Bad Idea. We are having more and more options removed from us by government and industry in the name of keeping us "safer" (and I'm not just talking about cars here), the logical conclusion of which is all of us having all our decisions made for us and being taken care of by robots and never leaving the house. Obviously that's ridiculous, it'll never get that far. The pendulum will swing the other way eventually, if not in our lifetime. My point is that I choose to be as unencumbered by that ongoing process as possible. When I say "I am my own safety", I mean exactly that. I am responsible for my own well being, nobody else, and if I make a conscious decision to bypass a safety feature on a truck in order to increase my enjoyment of it, that's a decision I've made with open eyes after weighing the pros and cons, and I won't be berated for it.
I appreciate your post, I think it's good to raise awareness of the fact that mods like lifts and bumpers and body chops and such make a vehicle less safe. I'm sure lots of guys don't think about that sort of thing before they start in. But parts of your post lean towards scolding those of us who have chosen to make those mods anyway, or it seems that way to me, and to the extent that you might have intended that, I object.
1engineer
Moderator
Thank you for a decent, measured reply. I didn't think I would get that lol. I only "scold" as you put it, when someone makes a conscious or unconscious decision to endanger someone (child, spouse, other drivers, etc) who is unaware or has no voice. I thought I had that covered in there but must have missed the mark. For yourself? Have at it man because I sure do!
Hellamatic
New member
I think Newton just rolled over in his grave.
