5th Gen 4Runner w/ a Supercharger or 2025 4Runner Hybrid?

[trainman605]

So the new 2024 Tacoma is not selling, is it the new higher price, or the 4 cylinder engine that people don't want. I watched several videos on YouTube on the new Tacoma and in most cases the re-design and turbo engine have not been totally accepted by the Toyota buying public, they want their V6 back. Since the new 2025 4 Runner is going to be pretty much the same as the new Tacoma mechanically and body shape, shouldn't the results be pretty much the same.

 

[thatoneguy]

So the new 2024 Tacoma is not selling, is it the new higher price, or the 4 cylinder engine that people don't want. I watched several videos on YouTube on the new Tacoma and in most cases the re-design and turbo engine have not been totally accepted by the Toyota buying public, they want their V6 back. Since the new 2025 4 Runner is going to be pretty much the same as the new Tacoma mechanically and body shape, shouldn't the results be pretty much the same.

Toyota sold 18,600 Tacomas in July, compared with 20,100 last July. That's a 7-8% drop on a brand new platform that's still ramping up all the offerings like the hybrid. Doesn't seem like they've delivered too many absolute base models yet.

Falling the sky is not. The lack of a V6 does not kill sales when the newer powertrain is better in every way. Most of these "no 4cyl" people will eventually buy one after they've gotten used to the idea for several years.

Considering the economic times we're in, I think the new Tacoma is selling fairly well. It would be selling even better if they didn't crank up the prices. I hope Toyota decides they want full volume back and holds pricing flat for model year 2025. I would love a slight drop in MSRPs but that's too wishful of thinking.

 

[trainman605]

Toyota sold 18,600 Tacomas in July, compared with 20,100 last July. That's a 7-8% drop on a brand new platform that's still ramping up all the offerings like the hybrid. Doesn't seem like they've delivered too many absolute base models yet.

Falling the sky is not. The lack of a V6 does not kill sales when the newer powertrain is better in every way. Most of these "no 4cyl" people will eventually buy one after they've gotten used to the idea for several years.

Considering the economic times we're in, I think the new Tacoma is selling fairly well. It would be selling even better if they didn't crank up the prices. I hope Toyota decides they want full volume back and holds pricing flat for model year 2025. I would love a slight drop in MSRPs but that's too wishful of thinking.

Toyota will come around in time, I plan to keep owning Toyota's and Lexus in the future. I saw adds for the Toyota Tacoma and Tundra with big discounts and special finance rates, this may help sales, but as the U S economy is somewhat questionable and where it's going, who know where vehicle sales will be. With the introduction of the new Land Cruiser and the re-design 4 Runner at a time when money is tight and vehicles going up in price, who knows where it's all going.

 

[Turfboy]

I’ve had my URD supercharger for a couple of years now. I’ve kept my foot off the gas and am averaging 18 in the city. I have not felt it makes much difference when I am off-road as my speed is much slower. (Forrest service roads) The biggest changes are merging, passing and towing. I am very happy with the setup as I get both the mpg and have the power when I want it. 5k oil changes should keep it going for another 20 years.

 

[thatoneguy]

Hey, since the thread got dug up five months later, we now know where Tacoma sales went. 193k sold for 2024, compared with 235k for 2023 and 216k for 2022. Not a bad showing at all for a slow ramp-up year. Discounts are typical now, though, and they barely touched pricing at all on 2025 models.

The LC250 and GX550 also sold about 30k each.

People seem pretty pumped for the 6th gens hitting port recently.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Could always buy a car if you want car acceleration. Yes, a 2024 4Runner does a pretty much identical 0-60 of a 1994 Honda Accord EX.

My 5th gen is way, way faster than my 3.4L V6 3rd gen was. It's also much, much slower than my 2003 Accord V6 6MT was. It's a truck.

If I'm bent on power, I'll skip the bandaids and go electric.

Hey, 1994 Honda Accord was the first new (not used) vehicle to me. 2005 Honda Accord with 2.4L and 5 spd manual was my second purchased new and I’m still driving it.

My wife gets the new vehicles and she now has a 2014 4Runner with 374K miles and a 2023 4Runner with 49K miles. People have inquired about the 2014, but she ain’t giving it up.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I guess my point was that there are plenty of comparable gas SUVs with 0 to 60 times in the 6 second range or lower. The GX550 has been clocked in the low 6s. The Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe is clocked in the mid 5s. The Defender 110 is in the high 5s.

0 to 60 times in the 8 second or higher range can be a liability for merging and over taking at high speed. If I'm going to pull out to pass a tractor trailer on a rural 2 lane in Arizona (with a speed limit typically of 65), I don't want to feel like my car is going to explode before crashing into oncoming traffic. That was my point .

My 2005 Honda Accord with 2.4L and 5 spd manual is spec’d at 160 hp and does 0-60 in 8.2 seconds. For comparison, a 1984 Porsche 911 SC is spec’d at 180 hp and does 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. It’s not a huge difference and you do not need 6 second 0-60 to merge into traffic. Chill out and try to enjoy the ride instead of killing people.

 

[Daisy L.]

Great discussion on powertrain options! Having test-driven both the Tundra i-FORCE and Lexus GX550, I’ll throw in my two cents:

The turbocharged 4-cylinder (likely the T24A-FTS from the Tacoma) makes perfect sense as the base engine - it’s surprisingly peppy in the new Tacoma, and the 278HP/317lb-ft would be a nice bump over the current V6. That said, the hybrid system in the Land Cruiser (326 combined HP) has me intrigued for the 4Runner, especially if Toyota offers:

Battery Placement: Underbody like the LC would preserve cargo space

Low-End Torque: Instant electric torque could be game-changing for rock crawling

Fuel Economy: Even 24-26MPG highway would be revolutionary for this platform

Concern: Will the hybrid system add too much weight for serious off-roaders? The Land Cruiser gained nearly 300lbs.

Wildcard Wish: A plug-in hybrid variant with 30+ miles electric range for overlanders who want silent camping mode.

What’s everyone’s ideal powertrain setup? Would you sacrifice some aftermarket simplicity for hybrid benefits?

 

[thatoneguy]

Great discussion on powertrain options! Having test-driven both the Tundra i-FORCE and Lexus GX550, I’ll throw in my two cents:

The turbocharged 4-cylinder (likely the T24A-FTS from the Tacoma) makes perfect sense as the base engine - it’s surprisingly peppy in the new Tacoma, and the 278HP/317lb-ft would be a nice bump over the current V6. That said, the hybrid system in the Land Cruiser (326 combined HP) has me intrigued for the 4Runner, especially if Toyota offers:

Battery Placement: Underbody like the LC would preserve cargo space

Low-End Torque: Instant electric torque could be game-changing for rock crawling

Fuel Economy: Even 24-26MPG highway would be revolutionary for this platform

Concern: Will the hybrid system add too much weight for serious off-roaders? The Land Cruiser gained nearly 300lbs.

Wildcard Wish: A plug-in hybrid variant with 30+ miles electric range for overlanders who want silent camping mode.

What’s everyone’s ideal powertrain setup? Would you sacrifice some aftermarket simplicity for hybrid benefits?

It's the same hybrid offered in the 2025 4Runner. It also robs about 4" of cargo area space, and you can't have it with the third row option at the same time. It adds about 300 lbs just like the Land Cruiser, which is what, 6% of the vehicle weight of this already heavy SUV?

Per EPA, the hybrid model actually does about 1mpg worse on highway mpg than the nonhybrid.

I do not think they will humor underbody battery moving forward, nor should they. Battery prices have dropped dramatically, but they still cost roughly as much as an engine to replace, you don't want to dent one offroad.

I personally hate plug-in PHEV's (worst of all worlds to me), no praise there.

If I were buying a new Toyota 4x4 I'd get the nonhybrid 4Runner. I'd be fine to save the purchase price money, and I don't need the extra city mpg of the hybrid, and the nonhybrid 4cyl is already plenty fast for me, much more useful torque than the 4.0L.

If Toyota ends up selling the nonhybrid Land Cruiser 250 in the US, like they do elsewhere, I'm buying it.

 

[NotMy4Runner!]

SC all the way. I understand Toyota does it pretty well, but these hybrid electrics are terrible to work on. Even if you don't do it yourself, expect increased labor hour charges to have it serviced.

 

[thatoneguy]

SC all the way. I understand Toyota does it pretty well, but these hybrid electrics are terrible to work on. Even if you don't do it yourself, expect increased labor hour charges to have it serviced.

Horrible take in my opinion

I would expect a brand new Nth generation Toyota Hybrid to be more reliable than their old supercharger systems. Generally they're damned near lifetime systems at this point. You miiiight touch the batteries once. For $1,500. At 250k miles. Or you could have a worse-driving 4.0L S/C truck that burns several thousand additional dollars of gas, in addition to the cost of S/C and install, if you really like that. And then wonder if the S/C will last as long as their hybrid systems without failure/maintenance.

Toyota hybrids certainly do NOT have a higher total cost of ownership than their parallel non-hybrid products. They wouldn't sell millions per year if they did.

 

[88Center]

Horrible take in my opinion

I would expect a brand new Nth generation Toyota Hybrid to be more reliable than their old supercharger systems. Generally they're damned near lifetime systems at this point. You miiiight touch the batteries once. For $1,500. At 250k miles. Or you could have a worse-driving 4.0L S/C truck that burns several thousand additional dollars of gas, in addition to the cost of S/C and install, if you really like that. And then wonder if the S/C will last as long as their hybrid systems without failure/maintenance.

Toyota hybrids certainly do NOT have a higher total cost of ownership than their parallel non-hybrid products. They wouldn't sell millions per year if they did.

Factor in higher cost to buy hybrid
Factor in higher cost to insure
Factor in higher costs to register (in some states)

 

[thatoneguy]

Factor in higher cost to buy hybrid
Factor in higher cost to insure
Factor in higher costs to register (in some states)

1. Noted. About $2,800 in the case of 2025 4Runners, and similar for more typical hybrids like a Rav4. I should also factor in the higher resale values, right? Fair is fair.
2. Noted. Most people see a very small increase, we're talking $10-20 more a month.
3. Are there really states that charge more for yearly registration on gasoline hybrid vehicles? I know a few junk states hit full battery electric (BEV) vehicles with higher reg, but do any do it for merely gas hybrids? Which ones, and approximately how much more per year?

 

[02SE]

Horrible take in my opinion

I would expect a brand new Nth generation Toyota Hybrid to be more reliable than their old supercharger systems. Generally they're damned near lifetime systems at this point. You miiiight touch the batteries once. For $1,500. At 250k miles. Or you could have a worse-driving 4.0L S/C truck that burns several thousand additional dollars of gas, in addition to the cost of S/C and install, if you really like that. And then wonder if the S/C will last as long as their hybrid systems without failure/maintenance.

Toyota hybrids certainly do NOT have a higher total cost of ownership than their parallel non-hybrid products. They wouldn't sell millions per year if they did.

I know several people with '24-'25 250 series Landcruisers. Five couples in my immediate area. I've asked, and they are averaging right around 18 mpg.

I know two couples with new 6th gen 4Runners. One just the IForce TRD ORP, and the other an IForceMax Trailhunter. They are averaging about the same.

That's about what I average with my 5th gen TRD ORP. So much for that huge increase in MPG with the IForce and IForceMax engines mated to the 8-speed...

Maybe the MPG might be better in ideal driving for economy conditions, or trying to pass the specific EPA fuel economy tests. But just driving normally day in and day out, there's not much difference.

 

[88Center]

3. Are there really states that charge more for yearly registration on gasoline hybrid vehicles? I know a few junk states hit full battery electric (BEV) vehicles with higher reg, but do any do it for merely gas hybrids? Which ones, and approximately how much more per year?

Unfortunately yes. California and several others charge registration fees which are significantly based on the value of the vehicle. Given the hybrid versions cost quite a bit more than than the non-hybrids, it adds more to registration fees every year.

For California, online calculator for fees.

Calculate My Fees - California DMV

New Trailhunter has ridiculous price of 75,689 (includes 5k 'dealer adjustment'). Probably should have grabbed a lower model for comparison but don't have time this morning.

Add Tax and reg fees for first year, and total cost is over 80k. Lolz

 

[thatoneguy]

I know several people with '24-'25 250 series Landcruisers. Five couples in my immediate area. I've asked, and they are averaging right around 18 mpg.

I know two couples with new 6th gen 4Runners. One just the IForce TRD ORP, and the other an IForceMax Trailhunter. They are averaging about the same.

That's about what I average with my 5th gen TRD ORP. So much for that huge increase in MPG with the IForce and IForceMax engines mated to the 8-speed...

Maybe the MPG might be better in ideal driving for economy conditions, or trying to pass the specific EPA fuel economy tests. But just driving normally day in and day out, there's not much difference.

Everyone's driving situation is different. The only real measure is testing one person's personal driving situation, unchanged, from one vehicle to another.

Lots of 5th gen people get 15mpg. I reliably get an astounding 25mpg on the highway. I am not typical, and my case should not be used to imply that 5th gens are inherently fuel efficient. Similarly, I won't use faceless internet people getting 18mpg the way they drive their 6th gen to be representative of them, at all.

Also, to nitpick, the 6th gen Offroad/TH/PRO fuel economy gains happened in combination with a 1" larger tire size. And I think it's likely that people with new 4Runners throwing down 465 lb-ft of torque at 1700rpm are using or perhaps happily abusing that torque.

 

[thatoneguy]

Unfortunately yes. California and several others charge registration fees which are significantly based on the value of the vehicle. Given the hybrid versions cost quite a bit more than than the non-hybrids, it adds more to registration fees every year.

For California, online calculator for fees.

Calculate My Fees - California DMV

New Trailhunter has ridiculous price of 75,689 (includes 5k 'dealer adjustment'). Probably should have grabbed a lower model for comparison but don't have time this morning.

Add Tax and reg fees for first year, and total cost is over 80k. Lolz

If I'm reading this correct, is an alternative fuel vehicle a whopping $11 more per year? As far as percent of vehicle value, I suppose we're talking say 5-8% more fees if the hybrid vehicle is worth 5-8% more than the nonhybrid.

The new Trailhunters and PROs are BONKERS priced. When I bought my '23 ORP for $46k, I found it absolutely mental that PROs at the time were in the high 50's... which is where "well equipped" 2025 ORPs now live.... no thanks.

 

[02SE]

Everyone's driving situation is different. The only real measure is testing one person's personal driving situation, unchanged, from one vehicle to another.

Lots of 5th gen people get 15mpg. I reliably get an astounding 25mpg on the highway. I am not typical, and my case should not be used to imply that 5th gens are inherently fuel efficient. Similarly, I won't use faceless internet people getting 18mpg the way they drive their 6th gen to be representative of them, at all.

Also, to nitpick, the 6th gen Offroad/TH/PRO fuel economy gains happened in combination with a 1" larger tire size. And I think it's likely that people with new 4Runners throwing down 465 lb-ft of torque at 1700rpm are using or perhaps happily abusing that torque.

I'm just giving an example of people I know, and their real-world experiences. If you can manage 25 mpg in the exact same model that I own (minus the KDSS), you could likely manage similar numbers in a 6th gen 4Runner.

Incidentally, 3 of the landcruisers owned by the people I know, are rolling on the stock very mild highway tread 245/70R18 tires. They are the same diameter as the stock tires our 4Runners came with, but 20mm narrower in cross section.

The other two are on optional 265/70R18 tires which are an inch larger in diameter, and the same width as what we had stock, but still very light P-rated construction, and very mild highway tread.

The 6th gen 4Runners are on the stock, light, P-rated tires they came with. Falken Wildpeaks on the TRD ORP, and Toyo AT3 on the Trailhunter.

I could do better MPG wise, but I have larger than stock tires with an A/T tread, and they are load range E, for the much stronger tire casing. Which is important on the 4wd trails my 4Runner is driven on. Being larger, more aggressive, and much heavier than the stock tires, it is understandable that my MPG would drop. But I knew that would be the case before I switched the tires.

I feel pretty good knowing that my old, antiquated 5th gen, is getting comparable MPG to the latest Landcruisers and 4Runners. Which are driving in the same area, but I'm running much heavier and more aggressive tires than they currently are.

Having owned numerous Toyota trucks and SUV's over the years, and even having worked on them at the dealer level at one time, I was excited about these new models. Having driven them, seeing how they are made, and what they are capable of in the real world, I am no longer all that excited about the new models.

My hope is that the new powertrains prove reliable, AND that Toyota improves the material quality and fit and finish. Because there are some REALLY CHEAP aspects of these new models which are just sad, and an insult to long-time Toyota owners.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Everyone's driving situation is different. The only real measure is testing one person's personal driving situation, unchanged, from one vehicle to another.

Lots of 5th gen people get 15mpg. I reliably get an astounding 25mpg on the highway. I am not typical, and my case should not be used to imply that 5th gens are inherently fuel efficient. Similarly, I won't use faceless internet people getting 18mpg the way they drive their 6th gen to be representative of them, at all.

Also, to nitpick, the 6th gen Offroad/TH/PRO fuel economy gains happened in combination with a 1" larger tire size. And I think it's likely that people with new 4Runners throwing down 465 lb-ft of torque at 1700rpm are using or perhaps happily abusing that torque.

The 6gen hybrid also weighs anywhere from 420 to 1100 lbs more than the 5th gen’s!!! It’s a pig.

I also get 23-25 mpg regularly on the highway. Just set cruise to the speed limit and if really hilly I’ll use the down to gain a little extra speed and then lightly bleed speed going up.

 

[thatoneguy]

The 6gen hybrid also weighs anywhere from 420 to 1100 lbs more than the 5th gen’s!!! It’s a pig.

I also get 23-25 mpg regularly on the highway. Just set cruise to the speed limit and if really hilly I’ll use the down to gain a little extra speed and then lightly bleed speed going up.

The hybrids and super laden trims weigh much more, but otherwise the weight gain isn't anywhere near that dramatic.

5th gens range from 4400 to 4800 lbs. Nonhybrid 6th gens are from 4455 to 4970 lbs. So yes, 170 lbs on the heavy end (Limited etc trims), but only 55 lbs on the lower SR5-level end, just over 1% heavier than before. Probably wouldn't have gone up at all on the light end if they didn't make it pointlessly longer and wider than before (and longer than the LC250).

I'd like to think of myself as a competent 5th gen hypermiler lol. I absolutely take running shots up to big hills and then bleed speed slowly, rather than letting it scream in third gear. And in a typical highway situation, I cruise about 70-72mph in it. It's just peaceful, quiet, and relaxing at those speeds, in a way that it is not at 80mph+.

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