5th Gen: 4WD shift lever grinding getting out of 4L

[konstant10]

Hi guys.
I have a 2015 4Runner and actually I rarely use 4LO. From what I read in manual, I can shift from 4H to 4L only if I on full stop and break pedal is pressed, otherwise the system will prevent shifting. Is it correct?
Today my wife drove the track and I got a call from her when she got stuck with dashboard full of xmas lights. She switched from 4H to 2H while driving 20 miles speed and something went wrong. When I arrived to help her, I noticed that 4LO can be easily shifted while driving and the system does not prevent me from shifting from 4H to 4L which is very strange...unless I do not understand something. I believe the system should be idiot proof and any attempt to shift to 4LO should be successful without full stop and break pedal pressed.
Can somebody confirm it please?
Many thanks.

 

[17KT4R]

Hi guys.
I have a 2015 4Runner and actually I rarely use 4LO. From what I read in manual, I can shift from 4H to 4L only if I on full stop and break pedal is pressed, otherwise the system will prevent shifting. Is it correct?
Today my wife drove the track and I got a call from her when she got stuck with dashboard full of xmas lights. She switched from 4H to 2H while driving 20 miles speed and something went wrong. When I arrived to help her, I noticed that 4LO can be easily shifted while driving and the system does not prevent me from shifting from 4H to 4L which is very strange...unless I do not understand something. I believe the system should be idiot proof and any attempt to shift to 4LO should be successful without full stop and break pedal pressed.
Can somebody confirm it please?
Many thanks.

The gear ratios are significantly different between H4 and L4. You should only be able to move the lever up into L4 when the vehicle is in neutral. Going from H4 back up to H2 or from H2 down to H4 can be accomplished while moving yes, but seems to be easier to move the lever down to H4 while at the stop lights in my opinion (vehicle in Drive) and allow it to engage as the truck moves forward.

Maybe read this over:
4wheel systems.pdf - Google Drive

Watch this video may help: YouTube

No idea why she had a bunch of lights come on but systems are disengaged while the transfer case is engaged with L4 and there will be lights to show same.

 

[konstant10]

Thanks.
Today I checked it one more time and here is what I noticed.
While on full stop ,with break pressed, but transmission on D, system locks the transfer case handle and does not let me move it from 4H to 4L until I switch to neutral. BUT
WHEN I STARTED MOVING, SHIFTED FROM 4H TO 2H AND BACK TO 4H, THE SYSTEM AALOWED ME TO MOVE TRANSFER CASE HANDLE TO "N" AND EVEN TO 4L.... I did not move to 4L while driving though, I just gently pushed it to make sure it is moving, to prevent damage. As soon as I start feeling rattling I stopped moving the handle and stopped the track.
So, it looks like and an issue, no?
Btw, the indication I got was: check engine, Track Off amber constantly, and Multiterrain indication green flashing constantly.
My expectation from the system was it should not have allowed me to move TC handle to 2L until all conditions fulfilled (full stop, break pushed, Nutral). Is my expectation too high?

 

[17KT4R]

Thanks.
Today I checked it one more time and here is what I noticed.
While on full stop ,with break pressed, but transmission on D, system locks the transfer case handle and does not let me move it from 4H to 4L until I switch to neutral. BUT
WHEN I STARTED MOVING, SHIFTED FROM 4H TO 2H AND BACK TO 4H, THE SYSTEM AALOWED ME TO MOVE TRANSFER CASE HANDLE TO "N" AND EVEN TO 4L.... I did not move to 4L while driving though, I just gently pushed it to make sure it is moving, to prevent damage. As soon as I start feeling rattling I stopped moving the handle and stopped the track.
So, it looks like and an issue, no?
Btw, the indication I got was: check engine, Track Off amber constantly, and Multiterrain indication green flashing constantly.
My expectation from the system was it should not have allowed me to move TC handle to 2L until all conditions fulfilled (full stop, break pushed, Nutral). Is my expectation too high?

You use the term transfer case so I presume you know what this equipment is there to achieve, but you may not understand the concepts of what you're doing with the handle? You are manually performing these tasks selecting 4WD ratios, nothing is automatically happening here, there is no fail safe system in these functions so your expectations don't compute, there is a proper way to use the transfer case to avoid damage to things turning in there similar to you shouldn't expect the transmission to do something magical if you select reverse at highway speed. You certainly heard the difference in gear ratios lightly pushing on the handle toward L4 from N while the vehicle was moving, would have been a rather tragic result if you slammed it in there.

Things you are describing on the dash sound normal for transfer case handle positioning. I encourage you to read the owners manual a few more times and perhaps just stick with going between H2 and H4 when needed for now? Or here's another good video to kill some time:

YouTube

Good diagram here too YouTube

 

[konstant10]

I really do not ha e time to kill and I have no issue understanding the OEM user manuals. I visited a dealership yesterday, and the guys took an action to talk to Toyota engineering as they did not have any answer to my question. Still hope to get some more useful info on whether or not the system is designed such way that any inadvertant engagement of 4L is blocked.
Thanks

 

[Whippersnapper02]

I noticed that shifting slowly from low range into high will cause grinding. There is no grinding if your swift with it. Yes, I'm in neutral.

 

[jhguth]

I really do not ha e time to kill and I have no issue understanding the OEM user manuals. I visited a dealership yesterday, and the guys took an action to talk to Toyota engineering as they did not have any answer to my question. Still hope to get some more useful info on whether or not the system is designed such way that any inadvertant engagement of 4L is blocked.
Thanks

just read the manual, they describe the proper way to put it into 4hi and 4lo, to go into 4lo you should be in N. what you described is normal

the transfer case is just a gear shift, nothing is preventing you from going into gear just the same as in a manual transmission nothing prevents you from going into 1st when you meant reverse or 3rd.

 

[konstant10]

Ok. What do you know about Camaro manual transmission? Are you aware there are some locks in the system? If not, just Google Camaro 1-4 shifting locks. I still believe similar features can be present in Toyota TC by design.
Again - SIMILAR, NOT THE SAME.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

Ok. What do you know about Camaro manual transmission? Are you aware there are some locks in the system? If not, just Google Camaro 1-4 shifting locks. I still believe similar features can be present in Toyota TC by design.
Again - SIMILAR, NOT THE SAME.

My GTO has the same skip shift but no the Runner does not. Selecting low range isn't super easy. If you have a driver that is constantly reaching for the wrong shifter, it's time for that driver to stop driving.

 

[MossJenks]

Good lord. A lot of stupid conversations take place on here but this one takes the cake! There's nothing preventing you from driving the thing into a freakin' wall. You want a button to help you with that too? The Toyota transfer case design is simple, robust and literally "battle tested". Failures are extremely rare to the point of being statistically near-zero. We get lots of failed TC actuators on here but hardly ever a failed "manual" TC. I've been around Toyotas for 40 years and I've never heard of someone breaking a TC by grabbing 4Lo while speeding down the highway.

 

[Whippersnapper02]

Good lord. A lot of stupid conversations take place on here but this one takes the cake! There's nothing preventing you from driving the thing into a freakin' wall. You want a button to help you with that too? The Toyota transfer case design is simple, robust and literally "battle tested". Failures are extremely rare to the point of being statistically near-zero. We get lots of failed TC actuators on here but hardly ever a failed "manual" TC. I've been around Toyotas for 40 years and I've never heard of someone breaking a TC by grabbing 4Lo while speeding down the highway.

Wow I had no idea this was what the guy was asking about.

Not sure how shifting into low range is super easy when you have to come down, move over right and go back up.

 

[17KT4R]

Good lord. A lot of stupid conversations take place on here but this one takes the cake! There's nothing preventing you from driving the thing into a freakin' wall. You want a button to help you with that too? The Toyota transfer case design is simple, robust and literally "battle tested". Failures are extremely rare to the point of being statistically near-zero. We get lots of failed TC actuators on here but hardly ever a failed "manual" TC. I've been around Toyotas for 40 years and I've never heard of someone breaking a TC by grabbing 4Lo while speeding down the highway.

Believe he's trying to explain that he's getting grinding when trying to move the tcase lever into L4 from H4 while driving down the road at speed. You may not be able to break it by pushing at it at highway speed but I don't think you mean that it can be done. He is presuming that the component is designed in such a way that you cannot cause damage although the audible results should be a sign.

Now that he explains the Camaro 1st gear lockout he's talking transmissions not transfer case but anyway, find 'em or grind 'em eventually it will get sorted, or understood.

 

[MTN4RNR]

 

[MossJenks]

Believe he's trying to explain that he's getting grinding when trying to move the tcase lever into L4 from H4 while driving down the road at speed. You may not be able to break it by pushing at it at highway speed but I don't think you mean that it can be done. He is presuming that the component is designed in such a way that you cannot cause damage although the audible results should be a sign.

Oof. I guess I should've clarified that I've never heard of anyone accidentally trying to shift to 4Lo. On purpose though? I guess if you really try hard to break it you might. I hadn't considered someone actually trying to shift from low to high or vice versa while moving. That's just plain stupid.

Edit: I guess I completely blew past the part where he said he wants it to be idiot proof. Very few things in life that are truly idiot proof are worth having. Good lord.

 

[jhguth]

Toyota actually has a feature that makes it impossible to move the tc into 4lo while driving: 2wd - he should trade his in so he doesnt need to worry about it

 

[usdashworks]

you have to shift it like a boss, dont stop on the "N"

 

[downshift]

I've been noticing some grinding when shifting between 4lo and 4hi, searched, and found a ton of threads. Based on that, it seems it's at least somewhat normal, at least for some trucks.

But my question is, what is grinding? When shifting between 4lo and 4hi and back, I'm stopped and in N. Nothing should be moving. The front and rear drive shafts are stationary. The only thing I can think of is that the transmission output shaft, even while in N, isn't completely stationary.

I followed the advice above and tried shifting while in P. No grinding. That is more evidence that the transmission shaft is spinning a little even when in N. Sure, there's a torque converter, but in N the flywheel and the transmission output shaft are disconnected.

Can someone confirm this? Does the transmission shaft spin even when in neutral?

 

[tls3601]

Grind…

It can grind when going out of 4 LOW even if you do it as per manual. I have been around 4WD’s for over 15 years and also presently own 2 FJ 40’s, neither of them have EVER ground following proper procedure. Don’t give the guy a rough time, it can and does happen. Not perfect and temperamental, not a quality that is appealing to me in an off-road vehicle. Mine is a ‘19 TRD Pro with the manual engagement lever.