5th Gen - KDSS Compatible Lower Control Arms!
- Thread starter TOTAL CHAOS
- Start date
Jeremy556
New member
What is shown in the video is the flexibility of the LCA bushing as designed, they have not failed. Toyota uses rubber bushings for NVH reasons, it would actually be easier for them to use poly and have little flex.Here is that video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyfNoxhx2cA
This is only in a parking lot. Imagine while driving off-road or at freeway speeds. Unfortunately this customer just replaced the lowers 1 year earlier. He decided to upgrade instead of replacing again:
My OEM bushings are only now starting to crack at 220k miles, so I am glad to see a quality aftermarket option that retains KDSS. I have had zero issue with my TC UCAs that have 200k miles. They are pricey, though.
Mick1
New member
It looks like the price for the single shock and dual shock are the same. Why would anyone buy the single shock LCA even if they only initially planned to run one shock? Why not get the option to run two.
Its like buying a 38 revolver instead of a 357....
Or am i thinking about this wrong?
Its like buying a 38 revolver instead of a 357....
Or am i thinking about this wrong?
TOTAL CHAOS
Member
Some customers don't need the bypass or don't want to deal with the required 1.25" wheel spacers.
TOTAL CHAOS
WWW.CHAOSFAB.COM
MTN4RNR
New member
Interesting as I have too noticed that the bushings are rubber instead of a harder material. The first time I looked at them they looked more like engine mounts than suspension bushings. I can only imagine that with a poly bushing reducing that play the front end would feel much more responsive on and off-road. I have read other threads where people have noticed a change in feel after upgrading LCA's.
Jeremy556
New member
It will be much more responsive, no doubt, for better and for worse.
MTN4RNR
New member
I mean for the majority of the guys that put LT E rated tires on these 4R's, a little extra vibration isn't a big deal, ha! I think I'd rather have a tighter feeling front end, personally.
TOTAL CHAOS
Member
Non-KDSS Race Series Lowers shown. If you're attending FJ Summit in CO, stop on by the TOTAL CHAOS booth. We will be all setup later this week 
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WWW.CHAOSFAB.COM
TOTAL CHAOS
WWW.CHAOSFAB.COM
Jetboy
New member
There's a difference between a static tow strap and a snatch strap that stretches. The same thing applies here. By switching to poly bushings you're increasing forces both on all of the joints as well as the drive train up front. It's neither good or bad - but it is different and you're making a trade off for firmer suspension joints that also means less durability.
The biggest downside to rubber is that OEM style rubber bushings is that they have a limited range of motion. The rubber flexes, they do not act as a friction bushing like poly that is actually sliding around the mounting point. So the rubber is limited by the flexibility of the rubber where the poly bushing has a universal range of rotation. The rubber bushings don't like to travel a lot further than the OEM suspension angles.
The biggest downside to rubber is that OEM style rubber bushings is that they have a limited range of motion. The rubber flexes, they do not act as a friction bushing like poly that is actually sliding around the mounting point. So the rubber is limited by the flexibility of the rubber where the poly bushing has a universal range of rotation. The rubber bushings don't like to travel a lot further than the OEM suspension angles.
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Jetboy
New member
That sounds great... until you're spinning a wheel and it hits a rock and grabs, the rubber bushing that would have provided enough cushion to dissipate that energy and not blow a front CV isn't there and now you're replacing a CV where you'd have just kept going. That's where it matters. That's why Toyota uses rubber.
TOTAL CHAOS
Member
Stop on by our booth at FJ summit for an event T-Shirt!
We are here to talk about any TOTAL CHAOS products including our Lower Control Arms. First 150 people in the booth Thursday get a shirt!
We are here to talk about any TOTAL CHAOS products including our Lower Control Arms. First 150 people in the booth Thursday get a shirt!
Spaulding Metals
New member
We just installed the stock length racing lowers on my 2016 TRD pro and have some rubbing at full lock right behind the uniball on the bottom. How much is normal?
Thanks
Josh
Thanks
Josh
MTN4RNR
New member
Good point, I hadn't thought about that scenario with the OEM style bushings. Seems to be give and take for all of these aftermarket parts depending on individual terrain and driving style. I would take the potential increased risk of breaking a CV with the TC LCA's for the benefits they offer over stock. But I wouldn't install a front locker :juggle:
Spaulding Metals
New member
[MENTION=99702]jrandom[/MENTION] Sorry about that. Total Chaos is closed on Fridays thought I would post here to maybe get a response. From what I understand the regular stock arms don't need spacers. Wheel doesn't hit, the knuckle under the uniball hits on the lower part of the arm even after cutting off what was recommended. you can see a small dent right after the uniball joint on the arm. The instructions do say some rubbing might happen just wondering what's normal and acceptable.Stock length Racing require a 1.25" spacer. Do you have a 1.25" spacer?
Curious, since this is about the release of a KDSS compatible LCA, why are you posting this non-thread related item here? Why not PM [MENTION=236676]TOTAL CHAOS[/MENTION] or email or better call them on the phone for a direct answer?
Cheers
Josh
Jetboy
New member
It's certainly a tradeoff. I don't know what the benefits of the stock length LCA are over a stock one other than tabs for a second shock. Frankly I don't know why people put skid plates on the LCAs either - I don't think I've ever heard of or seen anyone do damage to one of them. Toyota ran the baja 1000 on them without issue. But I guess if it's not broken... fix it??
What would make a lot more sense to me would be a replacement LCA that relocates the ball joint forward by about 1 inch to clear larger tires from the fender corner/body mount.
Spaulding Metals
New member
Sneaky, I didn't know they were closed on Fridays, good on them for taking long weekends.
You first posted you had Stock Length Racing LCA's. They look like it in your photo too. If they are indeed stock length racing you do need a spacer according to TC. Can you confirm which you have?
[MENTION=99702]jrandom[/MENTION] I do have stock length racing LCA (non Kdss). Post number 4 by Total Chaos says single shock you do not need spacer. I have no tire or wheel rubbing just the metal “knuckle” that bolts to the bottom of the uniball contacting the control arm at full lock. I would assume this is the same on all the racing lowers with the uniball.
jrandom
New member
Ah okay, so it is only the dual tab, for whatever reason I thought I saw that non-kdss stock length race required a spacer. Sorry for my confusion!
EDIT:cleaning up my extra posts
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MTN4RNR
New member
A few benefits that I know of over OEM are that you can service the poly bushings and the LBJ without having to replace the whole arm which is what the dealer will do with any excessive bushing wear, or lower ball joint failure. That and they'll play friendlier with the angles when lifted over stock, allowing more free movement and higher clearance at the LCA bottom. I like the fact that if you have a LBJ issue with these on the trail, you can easily have parts for a replacement versus needing to carry an entire OEM LCA because you cannot service the stock LBJ.
TOTAL CHAOS
Member
We just installed the stock length racing lowers on my 2016 TRD pro and have some rubbing at full lock right behind the uniball on the bottom. How much is normal?
Thanks
Josh
Thanks for posting up. That is a normal amount. Per our Installation Instructions, there may be some contact at full lock
TOTAL CHAOS
WWW.CHAOSFAB.COM
