5th Gen sales up 54.7% over 4th Gen

[BrianLSU]

Jed, you need to run for public office. I have never seen someone use so many logic loops in one conversation, my hats off to you sir, bravo.:hatsoff:

 

[rook]

With a new Grand Cherokee and the Explorer just around the corner, we will see if the 5th gen has any staying power.

At least some competition will require Toyota to make some improvements during a mid-cycle refresh.

 

[Jed]

If anything they have to let go, the Landcruiser has to go first, Look at the sale volumes for Aug 2010, The Landcruiser sold far less than the T4R, but Toyota continue to Produce them. I think the T4R will continue for decade to come.

That's a good point, but I'm not sure that Toyota will continue the 4Runner if it ever falls to Land Cruiser sales numbers. The 4Runner is supposed to be much more of a volume seller. Look at the FJ for example---it hasn't sold as well as the 4Runner, so it's due to get the axe. Toyota did well with a large line of SUVs for years now, but I'm not so sure how long they can afford to produce lower volume sellers.

 

[Jed]

This thread was started to counter all the crap 4th Gen owners were spewing about the lack of V8, the part-time 4WD, the styling, the antenna, the lack of a burger tray, and the subsequent predictions of demise.

Well, even you have to admit that starting a thread about all the sales success of the 5th gen was a bad idea and very premature. The ONLY thing in your favor is a direct comparison between the 2009 and 2010 model years. Any other way of comparing the 4th and 5th generation illustrates that the 5th gen isn't selling as well.

You champion their cause. You are emotionally invested in the idea that the 5th Gen will never be as popular as the 4th, while trying to claim that you really want the 5th Gen to be a success. I don't believe you.

Okay, great. I'm glad you think you have me figured out. I got news for you though---I'm a fan of the 4Runner in general. I've owned more than one. Do I like the 5th gen? Nope. I think they messed up the styling big time. But if you truly like it, my opinion shouldn't matter to you. I've heard 3rd gen owners say they think the 4th gen is ugly and it has never bothered me. That's because I like the 4th gen styling and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. You should think the same way instead of getting bothered enough by 4th gen owners to post in a thread like this one.

Every post you make on the subject leads one to believe that you want the 5th Gen to fail and you seem to take pleasure in decrying any success. You completely ignore the continued sales increases of the new model in relation to the old, arguing on one hand that bad times impacted the 2009, while completely ignoring that the circumstances haven't changed in 2010.

I've said over and over again that the 5th gen needs to be successful in order for us to have any chance at a 6th gen. I'm glad that the 5th hasn't been a total flop, but I still don't see how you think it's a raging sales success because it outsold the 2009 model. Like I said, 2009 was an anomaly. You asked me why I say that and I'll just point you to the numbers. The drop from 2008 to 2009 was unlike any other year in any generation. That in itself should help you understand that outselling the 2009 model year isn't anything to brag about. Sure, times are still bad, but times were bad in 2008 too. Gas prices were very high and the economy was already in the tank. Yet the 2008 4Runner still sold relatively well, especially considering it was in its 6th year of the generation.

Let me Jed this down for you: 2009 sucked, 2010 sucks, 2011 is gonna suck, too. 2007 was the last year that consumption was fueled by easy credit and mortgage equity and comparing the two eras side-by-side is monumentally stupid. In like circumstances, the 5th Gen is winning back buyers. In percentage terms, the 5th Gen is beating both the 3rd and 4th generation launches by a large margin which is only MORE impressive in bad times because logic tells us that the numbers should be down like the rest of the models from Toyota. But it's the one shining gem on the balance sheet and anyone with any intellectual honesty can see it.

So how does that explain 2008 then? And what do you mean when you say the 5th gen is beating both the 3rd and 4th gens in percentage? What numbers are you using to determine that? 25,000 units isn't going to do it.

Don't bother to reply, I'm done reading anything you post.

Sorry, but I'm obviously replying....you're not the only one who reads this and this isn't a PM sent to just you. But if you don't want to read this or reply, that's fine with me. My questions were mostly rhetorical anyway.

 

[Jed]

Jed, you need to run for public office. I have never seen someone use so many logic loops in one conversation, my hats off to you sir, bravo.:hatsoff:

Thanks, but when you use logic, the truth becomes obvious. So it's not that big of a deal.... :guitar2:

 

[Jed]

With a new Grand Cherokee and the Explorer just around the corner, we will see if the 5th gen has any staying power.

At least some competition will require Toyota to make some improvements during a mid-cycle refresh.

I agree somewhat. But then again the new Explorer seems to be even more of a crossover now. I think the Grand Cherokee is better as a direct competitor, but even it has now gone to IRS and as always it's basically a unibody design.

In a way, I think it was smart of Toyota to keep the 4Runner body-on-frame and live axle rear. With everyone else abandoning those attributes in the midsize SUV segment, people who really want/need it will definitely look toward the 4Runner. I think that definitely helps the 5th gen get even more sales.

 

[rook]

I agree that Toyota is smart to keep the body on frame model.

Future 4Runner sales will be in a niche market much like it was before the SUV boom of the '90's. The majority of 4th gen owners do not use the truck to its potential. With the 5th gen, that proportion will increase. Sales numbers will obviously be lower - there are a number of market and economical (and even social) factors on both a global and domestic scale responsible for that. Just look at how the dollar has dropped (nearly 30%) vs. the yen since the 4th gen unveiled.

Toyota did what they had to do in order to bring the 4runner to market and maintain a respectable profit margin. Sure, there are some features that would be nice to have, but in the end, the 150 platform is a solidly built descendant of the 120. In the body on frame market, there is nothing close... period.

 

[Jed]

I agree that Toyota is smart to keep the body on frame model.

Future 4Runner sales will be in a niche market much like it was before the SUV boom of the '90's. The majority of 4th gen owners do not use the truck to its potential. With the 5th gen, that proportion will increase. Sales numbers will obviously be lower - there are a number of market and economical (and even social) factors on both a global and domestic scale responsible for that. Just look at how the dollar has dropped (nearly 30%) vs. the yen since the 4th gen unveiled.

Toyota did what they had to do in order to bring the 4runner to market and maintain a respectable profit margin. Sure, there are some features that would be nice to have, but in the end, the 150 platform is a solidly built descendant of the 120. In the body on frame market, there is nothing close... period.

And that's another reason why I think they'll eventually bring the V8 back....the same people who tow tend to look for solid axles, ladder frames, and a V8 engine. People can always move up in size and still find all of that, but in midsize SUVs it's nearly impossible these days.

 

[rook]

Originally Posted by SeattleMike
This thread was started to counter all the crap 4th Gen owners were spewing about the lack of V8, the part-time 4WD, the styling, the antenna, the lack of a burger tray, and the subsequent predictions of demise.

c'mon mike.... don't accuse others of being emotionally invested and then post this

:redbrick:

So far, we have had largely a urea based1 contest about sales figures. Year over year comparisons will not work. Its obvious - because we've got a hundred posts in this thread and little more than yellow hands at this point.

During the 4th gen cycle Toyota had some volume to move and used incentives to do so. Rebates and 0% financing were consistently available from '04 -on. It was part of Toyota's plan - compete with the big boys for market share. With the launch of the 5th gen in 2010, the incentives, at least in my area are as dry as an old ladies kitty.

What we can compare is the percentage of 4Runner sales to total midsize SUV sales year over year. Or we could compare the 4R to a select sample, such as the Jeep, Nissan, Ford. If you wanted to look at the total market, throw in the crossovers.

If you want to feel really good, compare it to the Touareg





1 Car and Driver Sept 2010

 

[JB.]

Nissan Xterra Living on Borrowed Time | AutoGuide.com News

Nissan Xterra Living on Borrowed Time
Aug 30, 2010 - 12:10 PM - by AutoGuide.com

The Nissan Xterra may not have long to live hints Nissan product boss Larry Dominique. In a recent interview with Ward's, Dominique commented that Xterra segment is, "falling apart."

According to Ward's internal data, the mid-size SUV category....totaled just 211,042 vehicles last year, compared to an all-time high of 1.65 million in 2000. Back then Nissan sold 88,578 Xterra models, while so far this year it has managed to move just 12,186. Surprisingly, however, there seems to be a mini-boom in the SUV segment as of late with that number up 42% over a year ago.

 

[Jed]

Nissan Xterra Living on Borrowed Time

Well, that's not good news for the segment, although one less competitor probably means more 4Runner sales. Still though, I've always liked the Xterra for its simplicity, low cost, and offroad abilities.

 

[JB.]

I wouldn't be thrilled to see Xterra disappear either but it was, specifically, the reference to SUV market conditions that I thought made it relevant to this thread.

 

[Koz]

The fact is the WHOLE truck market is dying a slow death! Between the cost of gas, losing jobs and the economy. The 5th gen did pretty good but its not what it would have done if times were like they were when the 4th gen came out. Most people are afraid of a V6. Why do you think the V8 was replaced with the 4 cylinder? The mistake Toyota made was they didn’t realize the market is now left to the truck enthusiast and they want decent power.

As soon as the price of gas started going down, truck sales started going up. If gas goes up above $3 you could see many trucks disappear. The only truck that will survive will be the work pickup.

Koz

 

[Jed]

The fact is the WHOLE truck market is dying a slow death! Between the cost of gas, losing jobs and the economy. The 5th gen did pretty good but its not what it would have done if times were like they were when the 4th gen came out. Most people are afraid of a V6. Why do you think the V8 was replaced with the 4 cylinder? The mistake Toyota made was they didn’t realize the market is now left to the truck enthusiast and they want decent power.

As soon as the price of gas started going down, truck sales started going up. If gas goes up above $3 you could see many trucks disappear. The only truck that will survive will be the work pickup.

Koz

I think it depends how you define a truck. I mean, we've seen a migration towards crossover SUVs and small cute 'utes for many years now. The masses have discovered that they don't really need a rugged vehicle and a lighter-duty vehicle with better comfort and economy would suit them just fine. So in that sense, vehicles like the 4Runner have been heading down a lonely road for years now.

And that's obvious by the number of direct competitors that have moved closer and closer towards the crossover side. Personally, I don't want a pick-up. I'd much rather have an SUV, but I want (although probably don't really NEED) a more heavy-duty vehicle. I tend to use my 4Runner for stuff that I wouldn't otherwise use it for if it wasn't a boxed ladder frame and live rear axle vehicle. For example, I've pulled fairly large stumps out of the ground using 4wd low and a heavy strap. I don't think I'd try that in a Pathfinder....

Still though, I think it's smart of Toyota to keep the 4Runner a true SUV and not move it closer to crossover territory. The question in my mind is how long can they keep that up? If sales are strong (relatively speaking), then I think there's hope. If sales aren't strong, my guess is that the 4Runner either turns into something like the Highlander or dies out all together. After all, they don't need a Highlander and a 4Runner if they're both unibody & IRS cars....so in all likelihood, one of them would get the axe.

 

[volrus7]

What is most striking about this is that Cash for Clunkers was going on last year at this time and Toyota only sold 1004 4th gens. Contrast that to this year, when Toyota's overall sales are down 31.4% YoY but the 5th Gen is selling 3 times as many cars as the 4th gen did last year when you could get a subsidized bonus on your trade.

Actually, I doubt the 4runner did well due to the requirement that the cash for clunkers program required you to improve the gas mileage by a certain amount over your trade in or something like that...didn't it? So I don't know that this argument is relevant. I could be wrong, just seems I recall somehthing like that.

 

[volrus7]

It would be a sad day if the 4Runner were discontinued for whatever reason. Even with sales down in this economy and people moving towards cars with better MPG... the 4Runner of all generations has a HUGE cult following. That we can all agree on. The Highlander has taken most of the soccer mom's share of 4Runner sales but you'll never see such a following on a Highlander forum: Official Highlander Message Board - Powered by vBulletin :roadkill:

Good one Will..."Highlander" message board.

 

[SeattleMike]

Sales for December (DSR = Daily Sales Rate):

 

[westwind77]

Sales for December (DSR = Daily Sales Rate):

:girl:arty::thumb3:

 

[DocMT]

Feel free to correct any of these numbers. I found them with a quick web search. It is interesting that the 2nd year of the 4th gen actually increased in sales and then declined every year after. The mid-cycle refresh in 2006 kept sales almost at '05 levels. By 2008, we were in a terrible recession and had gas prices reach more than $4.00/gallon (all-time high) which most likely hurt sales quite a bit.

This is an interesting thread to read. I don't know if 4Runner sales will increase in the 2nd year of the 5th generation or not. As gas prices are predicted to rise back to the $4.00/gallon mark by the end of 2011, look for 4Runner sales to decline in a similar way that they did from '07 to '08. Maybe not as much (percentage wise) because the '08 model was nearing the end of the 4th gen life cycle. The 5th generation sales are likely to be stifled by rising gas prices unless those prices remain relatively low.

Still though, no matter how you look at it, there is no way that the 5th generation 4Runner will ever match the 4th generation in sales volume. That worries me. These vehicles have a long life cycle, so it would be nice to know what kind of sales numbers Toyota needs to justify a new generation in ~ 2017.

4th gen......................5th gen
MY – Total Sales..........MY – Total Sales
2003 - 109308.............2010 - 46351
2004 - 114212.............2011 -
2005 - 103830.............2012 -
2006 - 103086.............2013 -
2007 - 87718..............2014 -
2008 - 48878..............2015 -
2009 - 11457..............2016 -

 

[DaveS]

If Toyota puts a diesel into the 4Runner mid cycle there is a chance it may pull through to a 6th Gen otherwise I tend to agree with some others - this could be the last gen of 4Runner