rideexileex
Senior Member
Anyone looked into sourcing a JDM motor lately? Motors with ~50k on them sound quite appealing to me.
5vz rebuild
- Thread starter SV_Dude
- Start date
BrianSD_42
New member
I've priced this out and while you can get the Toyota Gasket Kit and a "blank" head at a decent price through online Parts Dealers, the actual components needed to rebuild a head cannot be purchased at a reasonable price.
At Camelback Toyota Parts they sell the blank head for about $800 but it is just an empty piece of metal.
I was told that to buy the head internals using Toyota parts which you would then put into the blank Toyota head would cost over $3000 easy (per side).
The pricing involved makes putting a new OEM head on there impossible. That is why all rebuild kits use aftermarket parts.
This is what my mechanic put on my truck, each side. A completely new aftermarket imported head by JE (Japanese Engines). I was charged about $700 per side but it looks like you can pick them up for $575.00 each.
http://www.japanengine.com/products/prodDetails.asp?category=5&subcategory=27&size=0&page= 0&pID=775
My truck has been going strong for 20k miles since the install and the shop that did mine said they do 5-6 trucks a month with these heads.
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MOTHER EFFIN CRANK BOLT!!!!
I have never had my butt kicked with a bolt like this before. I cannot get the darn thing to come loose. I turned my air compressor way higher than my impact gun should go (150 psi) and hit it with that and it wouldn't come loose. I used a 3 foot 1/2" breaker bar and put every ounce of energy into it that I have and it wouldn't come loose. I have probably put about 300-400 ft/lbs of torque on that bolt and it will not break loose.
It's been soaked with wd-40 but I don't imagine that it's actually getting into the threads.
I'm getting ready to heat it up with a torch hoping that will help break it loose. I'm at the point to where I'm scared I'm going to shear the b!tch off! Any ideas?
I also tried to wedge the breaker bar someplace with the socket on the bolt and crank the engine over but my battery isn't doing very well and won't turn the engine over. I also disconnected most of the engine wiring harness too so I'm not sure if that is prohibiting the starter from turning the engine over.
I have never had my butt kicked with a bolt like this before. I cannot get the darn thing to come loose. I turned my air compressor way higher than my impact gun should go (150 psi) and hit it with that and it wouldn't come loose. I used a 3 foot 1/2" breaker bar and put every ounce of energy into it that I have and it wouldn't come loose. I have probably put about 300-400 ft/lbs of torque on that bolt and it will not break loose.
It's been soaked with wd-40 but I don't imagine that it's actually getting into the threads.
I'm getting ready to heat it up with a torch hoping that will help break it loose. I'm at the point to where I'm scared I'm going to shear the b!tch off! Any ideas?
I also tried to wedge the breaker bar someplace with the socket on the bolt and crank the engine over but my battery isn't doing very well and won't turn the engine over. I also disconnected most of the engine wiring harness too so I'm not sure if that is prohibiting the starter from turning the engine over.
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With a little advice from [MENTION=75090]Footofgod[/MENTION] I bypassed the harmonic balancer to get the timing belt off of the cam sprockets. I pulled the upper pulley off and that gave me plenty of slack to get the timing belt off of the cam sprockets. I was trying to get the harmonic balancer off because I was going off of the FSM for the removal process of the heads. I guess sometimes you need to think outside of the FSM for things. As long as my engine noise is coming from the top end I wouldn't have to pull the harmonic balancer and this method will work... hopefully.
Well, I just pulled the cam sprockets and those bolts were a mofo as well! What do I find when I pull the bolts? RED LOC-TITE!! Thanks toyota (or whoever put it in there) for using red loctite on the engine hardware. That's probably why the crank bolt is such a mofo to get out. Note to anyone who ever needs to do this, HEAT is the only way to break down loc-tite.
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Im at my stopping point today. I need to go buy two bolts for the cam sprockets before I take them out and I also need to get some 12pt sockets for the head bolts.
I did get the exhaust header nuts off and need to loosen the crossover pipe before I can get the headers off. I also got the rest of the top and front of the engine apart.
I took off the valve covers and found some plastic bits hanging out in the head of both the left and right side. Not sure where they came from but I'll find out tomorrow when I get the heads off.
Here's one piece I found in the left side
Right now I'm disassembling the engine as if the problem lies in the head so I don't plan on removing anything else on the front end of the engine. The FSM states that during a compression check the psi should be a minimum of 145 psi +/- 15 psi variance in all 6 cylinders. The FSM also says to warm up the engine and add a few drops of oil to each cylinder before doing the check. I didn't want to run the engine for long so I didn't warm it up nor did I throw any oil in the cylinders. I'm also up at altitude so the psi would be slightly less than normal. Since 5 out of 6 cylinders were above 145 psi and the #2 cylinder was at 125 psi, I'm thinking that the bottom end is healthy and doesn't need a rebuild. I'm sure that if I did the compression check on a warm engine with adding oil all 6 cylinders would have came out well above the minimum. Tomorrow I'll find out wtf was making that noise.
I did get the exhaust header nuts off and need to loosen the crossover pipe before I can get the headers off. I also got the rest of the top and front of the engine apart.
I took off the valve covers and found some plastic bits hanging out in the head of both the left and right side. Not sure where they came from but I'll find out tomorrow when I get the heads off.
Here's one piece I found in the left side
Right now I'm disassembling the engine as if the problem lies in the head so I don't plan on removing anything else on the front end of the engine. The FSM states that during a compression check the psi should be a minimum of 145 psi +/- 15 psi variance in all 6 cylinders. The FSM also says to warm up the engine and add a few drops of oil to each cylinder before doing the check. I didn't want to run the engine for long so I didn't warm it up nor did I throw any oil in the cylinders. I'm also up at altitude so the psi would be slightly less than normal. Since 5 out of 6 cylinders were above 145 psi and the #2 cylinder was at 125 psi, I'm thinking that the bottom end is healthy and doesn't need a rebuild. I'm sure that if I did the compression check on a warm engine with adding oil all 6 cylinders would have came out well above the minimum. Tomorrow I'll find out wtf was making that noise.
Well poop!! I took off the cam shafts and the heads and did not like what I saw! Just about all the bearing surfaces on all 4 cam shafts are scarred up to the point to where I don't want to re-use the cam shafts as they are. The heads and cam shaft bearing caps are appropriately scarred up as well.
[MENTION=94888]EatonKyleH[/MENTION]
I'm sure you're more familiar with this seeing as this is what you do for a living. Do you think it would be safe to sand and polish these surfaces with some crocus cloth and reuse them or am I asking for trouble?
Not only is there an issue with all 4 cam shafts and the heads at this point, I didn't see anything wrong with the heads that leads me to believe that the noise was coming from the heads. As long as the cam shafts and heads are salvageable then I will continue on with the plan to rebuild the engine. If the scarring is bad enough to warrant a replacement then it will be time for me to start looking for another long block to drop in as a replacement.
[MENTION=94888]EatonKyleH[/MENTION]
I'm sure you're more familiar with this seeing as this is what you do for a living. Do you think it would be safe to sand and polish these surfaces with some crocus cloth and reuse them or am I asking for trouble?
Not only is there an issue with all 4 cam shafts and the heads at this point, I didn't see anything wrong with the heads that leads me to believe that the noise was coming from the heads. As long as the cam shafts and heads are salvageable then I will continue on with the plan to rebuild the engine. If the scarring is bad enough to warrant a replacement then it will be time for me to start looking for another long block to drop in as a replacement.
EatonKyleH
New member
Wow, that's a shame.
I'd be looking for another engine at this point.
If you did manage to smooth out the cam bearings and cam itself you're clearances would likely be pretty far out of spec. Minimally I'd be after replacement cams and bearings or new/reman heads but the cost for that would be outrageous and you'd still have the cause of noise unknown.
But my bigger concern is that your wear looks like it could have been the result of oil starvation because you mentioned that the damage is not done to just one cam or bearing set. Not only has that metal gone somewhere running around in the engine but other engine internals probably would show similar wear. You could easily pull the heads and a check the cylinder walls as well as your crank bearings at this point to see if there is anything obvious but then again that still may not tell you what you cannot see.
For now I'd continue tear down until you verify what the cause of noise was in the first place because it will also most likely factor into your end decision.
But really in my opinion the cost/effort to address the heads and then possibly rebuild the block/(repair cause of noise when found) to a point where you could expect this engine to preform reliably for the years to come just doesn't weigh up. I believe doing anything less runs too great of a risk of putting you at this crossroads again and wishing you had gone down the other path.
Ultimately it's your decision and I'll offer my opinion because you asked for it. I'd love to see you get it running great and trouble free but I'd have a hard time driving around everyday wondering if my attempt at resurfacing the cams is going to hold up and what else is scarred up in there after I just spent a great deal of time and money in there.
Best of luck man and I hope you get this thing rolling soon!
Let me know if you need anything,
-Kyle
I'd be looking for another engine at this point.
If you did manage to smooth out the cam bearings and cam itself you're clearances would likely be pretty far out of spec. Minimally I'd be after replacement cams and bearings or new/reman heads but the cost for that would be outrageous and you'd still have the cause of noise unknown.
But my bigger concern is that your wear looks like it could have been the result of oil starvation because you mentioned that the damage is not done to just one cam or bearing set. Not only has that metal gone somewhere running around in the engine but other engine internals probably would show similar wear. You could easily pull the heads and a check the cylinder walls as well as your crank bearings at this point to see if there is anything obvious but then again that still may not tell you what you cannot see.
For now I'd continue tear down until you verify what the cause of noise was in the first place because it will also most likely factor into your end decision.
But really in my opinion the cost/effort to address the heads and then possibly rebuild the block/(repair cause of noise when found) to a point where you could expect this engine to preform reliably for the years to come just doesn't weigh up. I believe doing anything less runs too great of a risk of putting you at this crossroads again and wishing you had gone down the other path.
Ultimately it's your decision and I'll offer my opinion because you asked for it. I'd love to see you get it running great and trouble free but I'd have a hard time driving around everyday wondering if my attempt at resurfacing the cams is going to hold up and what else is scarred up in there after I just spent a great deal of time and money in there.
Best of luck man and I hope you get this thing rolling soon!
Let me know if you need anything,
-Kyle
EatonKyleH
New member
also.. do have a picture of the top of the cam lobes and the valve adjustment shims they contact? Did you by chance measure valve clearance before taking it apart? If you didn't you could put the cams back in their original locations with the bearing caps also in their original locations and torque them back to specs. Then measure. I'd be curious because I've heard noises similar (but rarely quite as loud)to this from excessive valve clearance.
Something to rule out in your travels anyway figured I'd ask!
Something to rule out in your travels anyway figured I'd ask!
I already pulled the heads and the cylinder walls look fine, the pistons have normal soot on them for an engine of this mileage.
I didn't measure the valve clearance but the lobes n the camshaft look good and are smooth as are the shims on the head. I don't see anything wrong with the heads that leads me to believe the noise is coming from the heads. The valves are seating and tight as they should be. But I was wondering about oil starvation too because the tops of the bearing caps were discolored from the heat.
Ill pull the engine Tuesday and continue to investigate for the noise. At this point I'm suspecting a rod bearing or maybe a wrist pin... Something loose and making the noise.
If by sme reason there isn't anything wrong with the bottom end ill probably at a minimum take it all apart and have it hot tanked to clear all oil and coolant passages... Not sure at this point. I'm at an awkward crossing point here.
I have seen engines on craigslist for under a grand with between 125-150k miles on them or I can get a reman long block for 2 grand.
I didn't measure the valve clearance but the lobes n the camshaft look good and are smooth as are the shims on the head. I don't see anything wrong with the heads that leads me to believe the noise is coming from the heads. The valves are seating and tight as they should be. But I was wondering about oil starvation too because the tops of the bearing caps were discolored from the heat.
Ill pull the engine Tuesday and continue to investigate for the noise. At this point I'm suspecting a rod bearing or maybe a wrist pin... Something loose and making the noise.
If by sme reason there isn't anything wrong with the bottom end ill probably at a minimum take it all apart and have it hot tanked to clear all oil and coolant passages... Not sure at this point. I'm at an awkward crossing point here.
I have seen engines on craigslist for under a grand with between 125-150k miles on them or I can get a reman long block for 2 grand.
KidVermicious
New member
I'll give you one million internet points and a box of brownies if you swap a 22RE in there.
You gonna kick puppies if I don't?
EatonKyleH
New member
Ya I hear that and I know I would have a hard time giving up on an engine I had the intention of repairing rather than replacing.
I'd like to see what you find and decide to do.
Have you ever checked out
Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market
Its just a nationwide salvage yard inventory site and is searchable by zip and the sort.
Reman engines are nice for the warranty and freshness. I've used Jasper and others many times.
I also currently have a 3rd gen that was rear ended and has been sitting outside my bays at work for several weeks. I'm not sure what they are going to do with it but I'll inquire again soon. It has an e-locker and some other bits I'd be interested in for parting out and spares. Figured I'd bring it up but I really have no idea what is happening with it yet.
I would like to stay away from junk yard stuff unless I can hear it run. If there is a possibility of that engine coming out of that runner at your work you can consider myself very interested pending details of the engine.
EatonKyleH
New member
Lol, I'd still rather that over a 3.0L swap sadly enough.
My buddy has a 3.0 and it seems like a solid platform.
EatonKyleH
New member
I'm sure it is. Didn't mean to put anyone down that has a 3.0L just not one of my favorite Toyota engines but still much better than a lot of other manufactures at the time. I have a good customer with well over 300,000 miles on her second gen with the original 3.0L which she loves.
Didn't mean to hate and I mostly just found the idea/comment of swapping to either the 22RE or 3.0L in a 3rd gen funny as I'm sure it was intended.
I'll keep you in the loop on the truck at work and send you details if purchasing it becomes possible.
Doc2012
Senior Member
[MENTION=24995]SV_Dude[/MENTION],
I've got the FSM in PDF if you want me to email it to you. I've also got it all printed up. 2152 pages, 6 ink cartridges, and 4 600 page binders later, I've also got it printed it out.
I say rebuild it man. Why not?
Have a shop shave the heads, replace the valves. Get new camshafts. Get new bearing races.
Have the block polished, keep the pistons if they're still good. If not, put new pistons.
You've got a basically brand new motor.
Clean the charger, rebuild it, and you've got a new Charger.
You're already going to have the heads done, minus well get them rebuilt.
I wish I would've had the money to do it while I had mine apart.
I've got the FSM in PDF if you want me to email it to you. I've also got it all printed up. 2152 pages, 6 ink cartridges, and 4 600 page binders later, I've also got it printed it out.
I say rebuild it man. Why not?
Have a shop shave the heads, replace the valves. Get new camshafts. Get new bearing races.
Have the block polished, keep the pistons if they're still good. If not, put new pistons.
You've got a basically brand new motor.
Clean the charger, rebuild it, and you've got a new Charger.
You're already going to have the heads done, minus well get them rebuilt.
I wish I would've had the money to do it while I had mine apart.
KidVermicious
New member
Assuming that the bottom end is bad, what about a junkyard crankshaft and piston rods? You'd wanna make sure they're in spec and all, but I don't see why you have to buy OEM to get another 150-200k out of that motor.
