60k Service - "Engine Valve Clearance"?

[TeryT]

Has anybody had this checked on their V8 & is it a must at 60k? It is in the book to do.

 

[TeryT]

Here's a link to a letter from a guy who had problems with his valves, and Toyota refused warranty service.

http://www.aerialservices.org/ToyotaValves.htm

Airplane Banner: My Toyota died at 85,000!

 

[SWUtah]

Has anybody had this checked & is it a must at 60k? It is in the book to do.

Valve adjustment is not a maintance item at any mileage on the V8. Don't let the dealer screw you with this unneed service.

 

[TeryT]

Re: Re: 60k Service - "Engine Valve Clearance"?

Valve adjustment is not a maintance item at any mileage on the V8. Don't let the dealer screw you with this unneed service.

Thanks & I hope that is the case! The "Passport to Performance" scheduled maint. guide says to "Inspect the Following: Engine Valve Clearance". It gives no exceptions for the V8 - CAN ANYBODY ELSE VERIFY?

 

[TeryT]

Tundra Forum says this is expensive!

Here's a quote I found on another forum concerning the V8 valve adjustment:

Just got back from the dealer. This is a shim over bucket setup. Being such, they are manually adjusted by changing out the shims.

Yes, this is lame. Good for performance and reliability - Bad for the pocketbook. I've heard anywhere from $400-700 to do a valve adjustment.

Has anyone had their Toyota valves adjusted and what were you charged?

Discussing Expensive V8 valve adjustment

 

[sharp4runr]

Here is the cut and paste from the online Toyota Maintenance Guide:

Replace engine oil and oil filter 1
Rotate tires
Lubricate propeller shaft (4WD)
Replace spark plugs 2
Re-torque propeller shaft bolt
Replace engine air filter
Replace cabin air filter (if equipped)
Inspect the following:
Automatic transmission fluid
Ball joints and dust covers
Brake lines and hoses
Brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs 3
Charcoal canister (2UZ-FE) 4
Drive belts 5
Drive shaft boots (4WD)
Engine coolant
Engine valve clearance
Exhaust pipes and mountings
Front differential oil (4WD)
Fuel lines and connections, fuel tank band and fuel tank vapor vent system hoses
Fuel tank cap gasket
Radiator core and condenser
Rear differential oil
Steering gear box
Steering linkage and boots
Transfer case oil (4WD)



Additional Maintenance Items for Special Operating Conditions:


Driving While Towing
Replace front differential oil (4WD)
Replace rear differential oil, including limited-slip
Replace transfer case oil (4WD)
Replace transmission fluid or oil
Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis
Driving in Desert or On Dirt Roads
Tighten nuts and bolts on chassis

Applicable Footnotes:
1) Reset the oil replacement reminder (

 

[TeryT]

There's a couple dealers online that recommends doing this:

Inspect valve clearance (audibly)

found here


audible every 48 months

Sure sounds cheaper.

 

[TeryT]

It definitely says to inspect the valve clearances so I say you should get it done.
[/B]

Not the answer I wanted! I haven't seen firm prices on this, but looks to be at least a $350 service (unless it can be done audibly as noted by some dealers above).

More feedback please! Anyone actually done this yet?

 

[greasefingers]

I have never heard of anyone checking the valve clearance, unless they had to replace a leaking valve-cover gasket, and then most just skip it. Unless I hear a ticking noise, I will never check it either.

 

[toto]

There's a gigantic difference between "inspect" and "do any actual work". I can't imagine someone would pull off the valve covers on a 60k maintenance. If the inspection is based on sound, it would only take a few minutes and be real easy.
A problem with valve clearance could also throw a DTC code for a cylinder misfire. "Inspect" could simply mean "check for DTC codes".

 

[SWUtah]

If you want, post this question on www.ihmud.com 100 series fourm. I also have a 1999 Landcruiser with the same engine that is in my 2004 4runner V8. Some of the LC owners have 100 series with over 150K miles on them and "NO ONE" checks the valve clearence and no one has ever had a problem with burnt valves. The 80 series has the same shim set-up and calls for a valve clearence check at 90K miles. I had a 1995 80 series and checked the valve clearence at 100K miles. They were well within spec. and the mechanic said that if I want to check them again at 200K miles but he doubted they would need adjusting. What happens with the shim set-up is that the valves get quieter as they go out of adjustment (tighten up) which then can cause a burn value. The thing is the shims are very very hard and never wear down to the point that you will burn a valve. But as they say it is your money so spend it like you got it.

 

[TeryT]

If you want, post this question on www.ihmud.com 100 series fourm. I also have a 1999 Landcruiser with the same engine that is in my 2004 4runner V8. Some of the LC owners have 100 series with over 150K miles on them and "NO ONE" checks the valve clearence and no one has ever had a problem with burnt valves. The 80 series has the same shim set-up and calls for a valve clearence check at 90K miles. I had a 1995 80 series and checked the valve clearence at 100K miles. They were well within spec. and the mechanic said that if I want to check them again at 200K miles but he doubted they would need adjusting. What happens with the shim set-up is that the valves get quieter as they go out of adjustment (tighten up) which then can cause a burn value. The thing is the shims are very very hard and never wear down to the point that you will burn a valve. But as they say it is your money so spend it like you got it.

Thanks, but the link didn't work.

 

[SWUtah]

Thanks, but the link didn't work.

http://www.ih8mud.com/

 

[TeryT]

Founds this on a thread over at Tundra Solutions forum that sums it up:

The way the book says to check the valve lash is to do audible inspection by listening for excessive valve train noise and then check for an uneven idle.

If the lash is excessive there will be a ticking noise that you can hear. If the lash is to tight the valves will not close all the way and you will loose compression and that will present as an uneven idle. If either of these conditions exists you then must physically check the valve lash with a feeler gauge.

The FSM will give you the minimum and maximum lash for each valve. You properly position the cam and then check the lash with a feeler gauge and keep careful notes of what valves if any are out of spec.

Once you have checked them all the next step is to remove the shims from the followers that are out of spec. This is done using the Toyota Special Service Tools (SST). Once the shim is out, use a micrometer to measure its thickness. Then look up the thickness of that shim and the lash up in the chart in the FSM and it will tell you what size shim to replace it with to achieve the proper lash. Normally each shim will usually need to be ordered. The downside here is that you will need to reinstall the out of spec shim before rotating the cam to the proper position to remove the next shim. You must never let the cam lobe touch the follower without the shim in place.

Once you get all the out of spec shims out and measured and you have the new ones ready in install just remove the out of spec ones and reinstall the new ones. Simple, right??

Tundra Forum Thread
So the audible IS the 1st step. If anything sounds lick clicking, or there is rough idea, do the inspection! I wonder what my stealer would say?

Bascially guys on the Tundra forum were saying you could easily go 2 - 3 times that long without more than 1 or 2 of the valves being out of adjustment - maybe this will be a 90k check (visual that is) along with the timing belt perhaps?

 

[SWUtah]

Founds this on a thread over at Tundra Solutions forum that sums it up:


Tundra Forum Thread
So the audible IS the 1st step. If anything sounds lick clicking, or there is rough idea, do the inspection! I wonder what my stealer would say?

Bascially guys on the Tundra forum were saying you could easily go 2 - 3 times that long without more than 1 or 2 of the valves being out of adjustment - maybe this will be a 90k check (visual that is) along with the timing belt perhaps?

Tery
You need to do the inspection. You will never sleep if you don't check the valve clearence, go for it.

 

[TeryT]

Tery
You need to do the inspection. You will never sleep if you don't check the valve clearence, go for it.

I'll sleep just fine! But didn't YOU say that nobody checks this!? :awais:

 

[TeryT]

The Final Word?

In contrast, an overhead cam engine uses variations of the hydraulic lifter with followers and lash adjusters but no pushrods. The performance market prefers mechanical and mostly roller styles. OEM builders typically prefer the hydraulic versions because they require less service for the vehicle's owner and need virtually no adjustment yet they can be used with both flat tappets or rollers. The performance market prefers mechanical and mostly roller styles.

[Hydraulic lifters] are not without their limitations, however, as [they] usually cannot handle too much in the way of higher rpms and performance. You must consider their extra weight for both the reciprocating weight of the lifter and its effect on the cam. This added weight actually ends up working against the hydraulic lifter in those situations, adding yet another weak spot to an already vulnerable valve train. Another factor to consider is functional geometry and how a lifter can or cannot be controlled. The OEMs want the most they can get from a lifter so they use them to run up to their service envelope and not beyond, as in high performance conditions.

Lifter Article (Automotive Rebuilder.com)

So to me, a novice, it appears that it's more a performance issue, as the hydraulic system is somewhat less effecient & adds weight.(?) The mechanical lifter is noisier, and may require adjustment. Most OEMs are going the way of the hydraulic to get away from consumers spending more on maintenance.

Now with that said, I had a nice talk with a local Toyota dealer (Right Toyota) service writer today. Basically, paraphrased, this is what he (Mike)said: "We virtually see no lifter adjustment issues with the 4.7L, even though Toyota still puts it in the scheduled maint. book to check every 60,000 miles. I was a Lexus mechanic for 10 years, and when the 4.7 engine first came out, we saw a few required adjustments, but that was corrected within a model year or so. If you hear nothing or experince no power/idling issues, then I wouldn't worry about it. Next time you have it in for anything, we can check it on the computer (for $95), which is essentually what we call the "audible test," but no visual check is required. We see many, many 4.7s in various models with 150,000 miles, and almost never is there any valve adjustment issue."

So considering he just talked himself outa some service $$, Ima gonna take his advice: "Don't worry about it!"

 

[SWUtah]

I'll sleep just fine! But didn't YOU say that nobody checks this!? :awais:

Tery, I did. and you don't need to check it. But I was also told on the LC forum that I didn't need to check the valves on my 95 LC but I did it anyway. Because like you I am also very anal about my vehicles I learned on my 95 and won't check my 4runner or 99 LC. Let us know what you find if you do manually check them. I'm betting they will be right in the middle of the excepted range.