A possible solution to leaking axle seals

[Scramble]

You know pages 1-3 are very informative. @4runner4leon you could not BE more wrong. I love debating with jamokes who cant get their fingers dirty, take the problems to boneheaded mechanics and wouldnt know how to use a ruler, never mind a dial caliper.

Friday, you are just one of the many uninformed blowhard know nothings who hijack threads and bluster without having a clue. Clearly you love your mechanic. Time will tell. But we already know you wont come back and admit you were wrong. Dudes like you never do. This thread is littered with the likes of you.

Have a nice day

And you wonder why everyone thinks you're an asshat. [MENTION=157474]Friday88[/MENTION] was asking questions not attacking you just basically asking questions.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

What seal is that on the right?

That was from the Marlin Crawler kit that Friday alluded to earlier. It came unbranded, so I have no idea what it is.

 

[Friday88]

I didn't mean to upset anybody. This issue is confusing to me because some seals work with the retainer in the normal position, and some don't. It's a weird issue, especially considering the so called professionals shops don't know about it.

I do quite a bit of work myself on this truck, I only took the axles in because I don't have the tools to press the bearings. I suppose I mistakenly let the mechanic do it wrong. In either case, the grease test showed the seal sitting in what looks like the correct position, so time will tell.

 

[kook rooster]

Some updated information regarding the axle seal repair I had done at a Toyota Dealership: Well, there was a happy ending to the failed axle seal repair I had done last September. After returning to the dealership and talking with a service advisor with mechanic experience, he understood what I was telling him about the situation with the 3rd Generation 4runner redesigned seals and the need to reposition the retainer to get the seal to ride in the proper placement. He set up an appointment for yesterday when I could be there to talk directly with the mechanics in the shop. After some debate they still didn't understand what I was trying to tell them so they pulled the axle and we did the grease test. The seal was barely riding on the shoulder of the retainer. The leak wasn't bad yet but there was no doubt it was leaking.

The mechanic was busy so the repair was scheduled for today. Again, I requested to be there when they would do the grease test so I could see for myself where the seal was riding on the retainer. What amazed me is they were willing to reverse the retainer without putting up a fight and saying it was going against spec. We started at 3mm of polished axle showing and it wasn't centered. We went to 4mm, checked and then went to 5mm. At 5mm of polished axle showing, the seal was pretty much centered. Based off my experience, I really don't know how other people were able to have the seal centered at 3 or 4mm of polished axle showing. 5mm (factory spec) seems to make sense because when you reverse the retainer, you're gaining the 3mm of the bevel.

Looking at the picture showing the old seal vs the new seal, it doesn't look like there is more than a 3mm difference inboard between the two seals. The new seal design is on the left. It looks like there's only around a 2mm difference but it's hard to tell just from the picture and not taking measurements. I wonder if anyone actually has documented the exact distance the seal lip placement has moved inboard changing from the old seal to the new one. The guy who provided this picture on Dr. Coffee's Axle Seal thread on the TTORA forum mentioned there was a chance people were damaging the seals using the improper tool to drive the seal in and thus bending the seal pushing the seal lip further inboard. Using a large socket or a piece of pipe rather than an actual seal driver is probably not the best way to go. You can pick up a seal driver kit for a decent price from harbor freight and other manufacturers. I bought a nice set by OTC via Amazon. This could explain why my retainers were centered on the seal with 5mm of polished axle showing and others were able to achieve center at 3 or 4mm of polished axle showing. I also had them bolt up the axle too before doing the grease test to make the sure the axle was fully seated all the way to get a more accurate measurement. This could also be a reason why I got different results than the others if they didn't actually get the axle fully seated when performing the grease test. The other possibility for the difference I thought of is maybe the bearings on my axles were pressed in a little further than the others. If the bearing isn't pressed on fully, maybe due to a little corrosion on the end of the axle, that would leave less axle length after the bearing thus changing the position the retainer would be at. I'm not saying the others that had different results than me must have done something wrong. I'm just trying to figure out why my results came out different.
View attachment 146157

Anyways, I'm finally confident the repair was done right. If I have to do this again, I'll pull the axles myself and bring them to a machine shop and save myself some money.

I really appreciate these forums. Thanks again Dr. Coffee for sharing the information.

Which dealership did you go to? I am near San Jose and would like to be able to take my truck to a shop that is familiar with this issue, for obvious reasons.

 

[mtbtim]

Which dealership did you go to? I am near San Jose and would like to be able to take my truck to a shop that is familiar with this issue, for obvious reasons.

Dude, do yourself a favor and don't pay dealership prices. With the rear brake job included, they charged me $1500 for this repair. Stevens Creek Toyota charges a labor rate of $150/hr and they cut you no slack. Also, there's no guarantee that they have the same mechanics who are familiar with the nuances of this repair because I went there around 4 years ago. You could pay all that money like I did and find out later down the road after the warranty is up that they screwed up.

It was my bad experience with this dealership that made me fed up enough to start tackling all my own automotive mechanic needs. I pretty much trust nobody with my rig other than the tire and alignment shops because I can't do those things myself.

Use this thread and the video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made to educate yourself on this repair, pull the axles yourself, and take them to a shop that will listen to you and perform the job like you request.

 

[kook rooster]

Dude, do yourself a favor and don't pay dealership prices. With the rear brake job included, they charged me $1500 for this repair. Stevens Creek Toyota charges a labor rate of $150/hr and they cut you no slack. Also, there's no guarantee that they have the same mechanics who are familiar with the nuances of this repair because I went there around 4 years ago. You could pay all that money like I did and find out later down the road after the warranty is up that they screwed up.

It was my bad experience with this dealership that made me fed up enough to start tackling all my own automotive mechanic needs. I pretty much trust nobody with my rig other than the tire and alignment shops because I can't do those things myself.

Use this thread and the video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made to educate yourself on this repair, pull the axles yourself, and take them to a shop that will listen to you and perform the job like you request.

Thanks for the detailed response. I do many of my own repairs and almost never go to a dealership but was willing to consider in this case if there was a local dealer who knew the nuance of this particular repair. I've got a great mechanic nearby who I trust, I have read this thread and am up to speed so I will work with them to get it taken care of. Thanks again.

 

[Drcoffee]

And you wonder why everyone thinks you're an asshat. [MENTION=157474]Friday88[/MENTION] was asking questions not attacking you just basically asking questions.

You are very welcome. Oh wait you ingrate. You never said thanks for the info and time invested to help the forum at large. And I'm the jerk?

:lol:

What friday88 did was waste everyone's time with stupid questions and in the end circle back to let the mechanic do it wrong. "I trust my mechanic".

Tim has far more patience than I. 20 pages of detailed information, photos, videos, commentary, debate, and still friday88 cant wrap his mind around why his seal arent going to.

 

[Drcoffee]

Just because the seals are leaking does not mean you need new bearings. This should be a cheap repair for anyone willing to get dirty. The gear oil washed out the lithium grease. But the bearing is still lubricate by gear oil until its not. Once the seals stop leaking, and the oil spins out, the bearings will wear out. So when you pull the axle, pop off the bearing seal cover, clean out the gear oil with brake cleaner and repack with high quality lithium grease, pop the seal back in place and reassemble with a new retainer flipped around and a new axle seal.

Seal $12
Retainer $20
Grease $10
Brake shoes Wagner $35

You dont need a press unless you change the bearings. Cut off the old retainer with a dremmel or cut off disc. Heat the new one to expand it and slide it down into position. This isnt frinkin rocket science.

If your wheel bearings are groaning, they will need to be replaced. If they are quiet, repack with grease and drive on. It gets expensive when you need buy $80 wheel bearings. And with 100k miles on the truck, think about replacing the rear brake wheel cylinders. Denso are only $12 each.

 

[Scramble]

You are very welcome. Oh wait you ingrate. You never said thanks for the info and time invested to help the forum at large. And I'm the jerk?

:lol:

What friday88 did was waste everyone's time with stupid questions and in the end circle back to let the mechanic do it wrong. "I trust my mechanic".

Tim has far more patience than I. 20 pages of detailed information, photos, videos, commentary, debate, and still friday88 cant wrap his mind around why his seal arent going to.

3 weeks to come up with a reply?...not bad. I'll thank you when I do the repair. :bounce:

 

[Drcoffee]

3 weeks to come up with a reply?...not bad. I'll thank you when I do the repair. :bounce:

LOL my notifications dont alert me by email. I have reset it a few time but no luck. So its been a while since I was here last.

A Trueism in life: "No good deed goes Unpunished".

I keep hoping that people will change, but I just get disappointed time and again. There have been enough members who have voiced their appreciation and had great success with their project to make the effort worthwhile. Dont get me wrong. Im not looking for accolades. But to constantly defend the thread from nitwits who are either clueless and not capable of understanding or Fanboys of decenters is frankly, tiring.

 

[Kanoe]

Just completed a 3,000 Km leg of a road trip. Left home just a couple of days after the Dr Coffee flip. I pulled the ABS sensors today to check and I am happy to say it's still dry! I will continue to check when rotating tires.

Thanks Dr Coffee!

 

[Drcoffee]

Its good to see the price of tools has come down. I found this on ebay for $149 bearing puller. Looks like it should fit a harbor freight press.

Axle Bearing Puller Set For 95-20 Toyota 4Runner With Tone Ring Tool Installer | eBay

Here is another decent write up on the process.

Replacing My Rear Axle Seals & Bearings on a Toyota 4Runner (also Tacoma) – ADVENTURETACO

 

[mendozer]

Don't get that one, get the one from the guy in Nebraska. donald-the-bonald is his ebay username. It's the real deal, handmade from him who's a T4R owner and made this tool on the side. I own it and it's SOOO easy to do this job now.

It's the same one Timmy the Toolman (mtb-tim here) uses in the video (part two, the updated one)

 

[TX_MD]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but wanted to ask:
Brake drums have some darkened areas on them and collecting dust, to confirm it's leaking I pulled the ABS sensor as seems to be the gold-standard and yes it's wet. Would it be worth my time replacing the seal (OEM new design if part# ending in 006?) if I didn't flip the retainer ring? Don't have the funds or tools to rebuild the axle at this time so was thinking about possibly just repacking the wheel bearing and changing the axle seal to hopefully get a couple years out of it? It's been an in-the-family vehicle so I'd have to check if the axle seals/diff/etc had ever been worked on and/or if previous mechs altered the retainer location, but it's got 288k on the clock now so I'd fair a guess that things are not all from-factory. As I'll need to replace brake shoes and stuff as well I'm trying to do this on as-friendly a budget as I can.

FWIW - it's only a 2WD 4R so no harsh environments, use, or anything like that, just city driving. Use as my DD, but I work from home so not racking on the miles. Appreciate all the advice from this forum. This will be my first 'major' job.

 

[mtbtim]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but wanted to ask:
Brake drums have some darkened areas on them and collecting dust, to confirm it's leaking I pulled the ABS sensor as seems to be the gold-standard and yes it's wet. Would it be worth my time replacing the seal (OEM new design if part# ending in 006?) if I didn't flip the retainer ring? Don't have the funds or tools to rebuild the axle at this time so was thinking about possibly just repacking the wheel bearing and changing the axle seal to hopefully get a couple years out of it? It's been an in-the-family vehicle so I'd have to check if the axle seals/diff/etc had ever been worked on and/or if previous mechs altered the retainer location, but it's got 288k on the clock now so I'd fair a guess that things are not all from-factory. As I'll need to replace brake shoes and stuff as well I'm trying to do this on as-friendly a budget as I can.

FWIW - it's only a 2WD 4R so no harsh environments, use, or anything like that, just city driving. Use as my DD, but I work from home so not racking on the miles. Appreciate all the advice from this forum. This will be my first 'major' job.

If you want to take the risk of just replacing the axle seals, I suggest going with an aftermarket seal that mimics the original seal design. I think Marlin Crawler makes one. The reason is the new Toyota seal design puts the sealing lip 2mm more inboard than before. If you use this new design without addressing the inner retainer position on the axle, you run the risk of having a leaking axle seal once again because of a poor mating on the seal with the inner retainer.

You can repack the axle bearings by prying up the dust cover on the inner side of the bearing. Use a very small flat blade screwdriver to get in between the dust cover and outer bearing race to pry it up. Work a quality high temp bearing grease into the bearing and then pop the dust cover back in place.

 

[TX_MD]

If you want to take the risk of just replacing the axle seals, I suggest going with an aftermarket seal that mimics the original seal design. I think Marlin Crawler makes one. The reason is the new Toyota seal design puts the sealing lip 2mm more inboard than before. If you use this new design without addressing the inner retainer position on the axle, you run the risk of having a leaking axle seal once again because of a poor mating on the seal with the inner retainer.

You can repack the axle bearings by prying up the dust cover on the inner side of the bearing. Use a very small flat blade screwdriver to get in between the dust cover and outer bearing race to pry it up. Work a quality high temp bearing grease into the bearing and then pop the dust cover back in place.

Thank you mtbtim! I may try that then and save the OEM seals for when it can be done with flipped retainers (found OEM seals from Camelback Toyota for $8/ea). Is it ok to just replace one side or do I need to replace both seals?

 

[mtbtim]

Thank you mtbtim! I may try that then and save the OEM seals for when it can be done with flipped retainers (found OEM seals from Camelback Toyota for $8/ea). Is it ok to just replace one side or do I need to replace both seals?

You could just replace the side that is leaking but I bet the other side probably already is. Have you pulled the ABS sensor and looked into the axle housing on the other side?

 

[WayneM]

Reasons aside, repacking a washed out bearing, of unknown condition, seems sketchy.
If you are OK with the risk of replacing the bearing in a relatively short period, then another approach is replacing the bearing now, with a cheaper non-Toyota bearing. Some of them are down around $10. I've used a Beck-Arnley one that is going on 10 years.

 

[RC57]

Toyota could have made this work better if they had included a 2mm spacer with the new seals.

If you want to take the risk of just replacing the axle seals, I suggest going with an aftermarket seal that mimics the original seal design. I think Marlin Crawler makes one. The reason is the new Toyota seal design puts the sealing lip 2mm more inboard than before. If you use this new design without addressing the inner retainer position on the axle, you run the risk of having a leaking axle seal once again because of a poor mating on the seal with the inner retainer.

 

[TX_MD]

You could just replace the side that is leaking but I bet the other side probably already is. Have you pulled the ABS sensor and looked into the axle housing on the other side?

LOL, for some reason while I had the truck up I didn't think to check the other side sensor - but thanks for the clarification. I'll order a couple seals just in case it is leaking I'll be able to replace both seals at the same time.