ABS Brakes....how many have disabled it?

[montana_jeepn]

Wow, definitely some differing opinions on this. I pulled both front sensors, cleaned them, and reinstalled them. The drivers side sensor didn't look like I had gotten it seated all the way so I suspect that's where my issue was coming from.

After reading through all the responses, I think I will eventually wire in an off switch. My first 3 cars didn't have ABS and I grew up in Montana on a ranch......from some of the responses I guess Iam lucky I made it. I like the idea of having a switch handy to kill it if the ABS starts acting up in the middle of a trip. Sure I could just pull the fuse in that case, but we all know such times occur at -5 degrees, in the middle of a blizzard, while going up a hill....

. Thanks again for all of the thoughtful responses. Getting closer to getting this pig back on the road.

 

[Jon]

ABS is for punks! JK I'll take ABS on my fast daily driver but it's no good and has no place off road. I nearly got in a couple mishaps off road because of it. The damn thing just refused to stop. One day the ABS light came on and it quit working. Much happier now.

 

[Swimmerboy2112]

While I generally don't like ABS i'm sure it's saved my skin before. With that being said, it's so damn sensitive. If I hit a bump while on the brakes, you can forget about stopping, ABS will just kick in.

My daily driver is a 1998 Subaru Impreza Wagon and that has perfect ABS, only cuts in when you really need it.

So would I ever disable my ABS? No. But I wish I could turn down the sensitivity!

 

[LittleCaesar]

Having ABS in snow and rain can be nice.

That said, I pulled the fuse years ago when the valve for the rear brakes in my accumulator seized up and the brakes worked much better. I have since gotten another accumulator, but have been too busy to put it in. One day.

 

[Robb235]

I would think twice about disabling ABS except when off-roading. Disabling a manufacturer's safety feature could open you up to huge liability issues if you have an at-fault accident, or even if it isn't your fault the other party's lawyer could say 'he could have stopped and prevented the accident had he not disabled the ABS, therefore my client isn't completely at fault'. I don't know that they would but an insurance company might even be able to get out of a claim if it were proven that ABS working would have prevented the accident. And assuming they do pay, a 'victim's' lawyer might claim that disbling the ABS shows 'wanton disregard' or 'gross negligence' or something and get a jury to award money that would far exceed what your insurance would pay ('your honor, since the defendent acted with wanton disregard by disabling a manufacturer's safety feature, we ask that you award the poor, disabled plaintiff $10,000,000').

I know we do lots of other things to override manufacturer safety features (like bumpers) but messing with brakes is a probably big no-no from a liability standpoint.

How on earth would they know that you even disabled your ABS? I doubt that the cop, or whoever is going to say, "hey, let me check for a switch, and trace the wires to see if this guy disabled his ABS".

 

[98OzarksRunner]

How on earth would they know that you even disabled your ABS? I doubt that the cop, or whoever is going to say, "hey, let me check for a switch, and trace the wires to see if this guy disabled his ABS".

Kill a bus full of school kids and I'll guarantee a team of 'experts' hired by the parents' attorney(s) will tear your 4Runner apart, especially if it already has lots of obvious mods.

Do as you like, but disabling safety devices is just a bad idea from a liability standpoint. And having run a business in a high-risk field, I have had many engineering meetings with discussions like 'if we do (or don't do) this and there is an "incident" how will this be construed by an attorney out to make a buck?'.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm not pitching a ball into either field here as far as the legalities go however when I bought a new F-150 a few years back there was a huge discussion on the F-150 forum about the Big Brother Black Box that it and most newer cars contain.

Numerous sensors trigger the recording of all sorts of info into the black box, one of which is the air bag being deployed.

They can tell the vehicle speed, throttle position, whether the brakes were applied and if they were locked up and whether or not various sensors and vehicle components were functioning.

Could somebody be held liable because they disabled a safety system on their vehicle? In today's litigious society I don't think it is that far fetched. Sad, but true.

 

[jman11788]

While I generally don't like ABS i'm sure it's saved my skin before. With that being said, it's so damn sensitive. If I hit a bump while on the brakes, you can forget about stopping, ABS will just kick in.

Right on point there! So damn annoying

 

[pluton]

What about a LSPV?

Don't the 4Runners that don't come with ABS have a Load Sensing Proportioning Valve for the rear brakes?
If my ABS started to "act crazy", as has been anecdotally reported here, and I pulled the fuse or installed an on/off switch, would I miss the LSPV? Wouldn't the rear wheels be more likely to lock up when the truck is empty, and lack braking force when the truck is loaded without either ABS or a LSPV?

 

[Robb235]

Kill a bus full of school kids and I'll guarantee a team of 'experts' hired by the parents' attorney(s) will tear your 4Runner apart, especially if it already has lots of obvious mods.

Do as you like, but disabling safety devices is just a bad idea from a liability standpoint. And having run a business in a high-risk field, I have had many engineering meetings with discussions like 'if we do (or don't do) this and there is an "incident" how will this be construed by an attorney out to make a buck?'.

Kill a bus full of school kids? Seriously? And exactly how many times have you done this? I'm guessing none. If I've done something so egregious that my driving kills a bus load of students, I really don't think ABS is going to solve my issue.

 

[Singtoe]

Make a switch to disable it for off road use.

What happens if you let some one ( wife, girlfriend, child, whoever) use your 4runner and they t-bone somebody because the brakes locked up.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

Kill a bus full of school kids? Seriously? And exactly how many times have you done this? I'm guessing none. If I've done something so egregious that my driving kills a bus load of students, I really don't think ABS is going to solve my issue.

Just because it hasn't happened to me doesn't mean it won't happen to you. 'Accidents', by definition, are unplanned.

I used an extreme example to make a point - that a serious crash involving loss of life or paralysis is likely to result in a lawsuit that WILL involve looking at every detail of the vehicles. And if they put you on the stand and ask if the brakes were working properly are you going to lie? If the lawyer knows they weren't and you say they were, now you've got more problems.

If it's no big deal - ask your Toyota dealer or a reputable brake shop to remove the ABS. They'll probably laugh at you.

 

[TCMach]

Especially if I hit a little bump or anything while braking.

This is the reason I sometimes want to rip mine out. I have had my abs come on pulling into a parking spot slightly downhill. Slush and snow was horrible as well. It would kick on right before i stopped no matter how slow I was going before breaking. Talk about annoying. I think my abs fuse may have blown because now it never turns on even when I try to make it kick on. To be honest I like it better.

I used an extreme example to make a point - that a serious crash involving loss of life or paralysis is likely to result in a lawsuit that WILL involve looking at every detail of the vehicles.

Your correct in this. There are such issues as "unlawful vehicle modifications" which this could possibly fall under. I'm no law student but i've seen similar things happen.

 

[pattycakes77]

I pulled my fuse in about 2006, been happy with it since. I've only ever driven non-abs vehicles before I got the 4runner so I'm used to being in control of my vehicle and I know how to drive without it. I feel that if it's such a liability to drive without ABS they would have banned all older vehicles or mandated ABS retrofits in older vehicles. Technology can be good, I just don't care for ABS so it doesn't work for me. Then again, I still like buttons on my cell phone so I guess I'm old school.

 

[02_SE_Runner]

I pulled my fuse in about 2006, been happy with it since. I've only ever driven non-abs vehicles before I got the 4runner so I'm used to being in control of my vehicle and I know how to drive without it. I feel that if it's such a liability to drive without ABS they would have banned all older vehicles or mandated ABS retrofits in older vehicles. Technology can be good, I just don't care for ABS so it doesn't work for me. Then again, I still like buttons on my cell phone so I guess I'm old school.

I'm with you here! My other vehicle is a 65 Mustang, no ABS there!

But to add to the ABS debate, I would put a switch, and use it in snow and ice or off road. I say snow and ice because each time ABS kicked in for me was in snowy and icey conditions the brakes just stopped working. Yes the ABS was doing its job, preventing brake lock up, but even after it was finished my brakes would not engage until a minute after and I would still hear the ABS doing its thing. I am lucky no one or any intersections were in front of me.

If it's a big manufacturers safety concern read the following;

Anything having to do with taking away driver skill is more of a harm in my opinion. Such as blind spot sensors. I mean it stops you from switching lanes? What if there was a group of children,(god forbid) on the highway in your lane and a car in you "blind spot" I would rather hit the person in my blind spot then those kids because the person I just hit has a higher chance of surviving. But the blind spot detector didn't let me. I also couldn't stop in time because we were going freeway speeds.
(Forgive me if the sensors/detectors don't work that way but you get what in saying)
I bring up blind spot detectors because in today's world that's the ABS. At times fine it can be useful but again if it takes away drivers skill I just say no thank you.

 

[Robb235]

Just because it hasn't happened to me doesn't mean it won't happen to you. 'Accidents', by definition, are unplanned.

I used an extreme example to make a point - that a serious crash involving loss of life or paralysis is likely to result in a lawsuit that WILL involve looking at every detail of the vehicles. And if they put you on the stand and ask if the brakes were working properly are you going to lie? If the lawyer knows they weren't and you say they were, now you've got more problems.

If it's no big deal - ask your Toyota dealer or a reputable brake shop to remove the ABS. They'll probably laugh at you.

Look, all I'm saying is that having a switch in the cabin to disable ABS is not the ultra-risky undertaking that you paint it as.

In normal driving conditions, yes, the ABS should be active. However, if someone finds them self in a situation where they know the T4R ABS doesn't fair well (ice, loose gravel, etc.), then I really don't think you can fault that person for taking steps to be safer (i.e. maintaining control of their vehicle). I'll take my chances actually being safer, and risk that 1 in 10 million chance that it causes a law suit against me.

And for your hypothetical situation of an attorney asking you questions on the stand... just having a switch in the cabin doesn't automatically put you in the wrong. They would have to prove that your ABS was in fact disabled during the crash. If you're driving around school buses, you're likely in a situation where you don't need ABS disabled.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

Look, all I'm saying is that having a switch in the cabin to disable ABS is not the ultra-risky undertaking that you paint it as.

In normal driving conditions, yes, the ABS should be active. However, if someone finds them self in a situation where they know the T4R ABS doesn't fair well (ice, loose gravel, etc.), then I really don't think you can fault that person for taking steps to be safer (i.e. maintaining control of their vehicle). I'll take my chances actually being safer, and risk that 1 in 10 million chance that it causes a law suit against me.

And for your hypothetical situation of an attorney asking you questions on the stand... just having a switch in the cabin doesn't automatically put you in the wrong. They would have to prove that your ABS was in fact disabled during the crash. If you're driving around school buses, you're likely in a situation where you don't need ABS disabled.

I certainly don't see a problem with a switch in the cab (I think the 'Andy Mod 1' disabled the ABS, along with VSC and TRAC). I personally haven't had any issues with ABS off-road or on snow and ice (in fact, it saved me on the ice this past winter, from sliding into a bridge railing), but if I did, I'd put a switch on the dash to disable it. I just don't think it's a good idea to remove it altogether or disable it permanently.