Alert: Riverside CA Dealer refused to check KDSS on lifted Trail

[bluebaron]

Here's the story......Part 1

Fitted Toytec ultimate lift kit a few months ago and changed tires to some BFG's. Had a great 2 day trip on the Mojave Road in California but noticed that the front KDSS wasn't kicking in. This resulted in some scary leans on the rough stuff.

When I got back I tried all the reset options outlined on the forum and in the service manual.....but no change. BTW, the rear worked fine.

Thought I would take it in to my local dealer so they could plug in the computer and do the tests in the service manual.....looks to take about 10 minutes. Riverside Toyota were the closest and I booked it in around 9.30 in the morning. I explained the problem and the service guy was pleasant enough but said he wasn't sure how they could test it as they didn't have something like rocks to drive over. I said you could just try a curb but what I really wanted them to do was to plug in the Toyota diagnostic computer to see if there were any error codes....I mentioned solenoids, valves etc. He booked it in and said he would call me when it was ready.

Later that day I called for an update. They still hadn't looked at it. About 10 minutes later the service guy calls me back with 'bad news'....the hydraulic cylinder had been over extended and broken by installing the Toytec lift and therefore they couldn't do anything. I disagreed and pointed out that it was way under it's specified full extension limit and that I'm pretty sure it's not possible to over extend.

 

[bluebaron]

Part 2

He had spoken to his Manager but he would try again and get back to me. I called back twice later that day but my calls were not returned. I went back the next morning to see what had happened and pick the Trail up. Sure enough nothing had been done.

I spoke to the Service Manager and he repeated nothing could be done as it had been extensively modified. I quoting the Moss act etc. and he changed his tune a little saying they could have the regional tech take a quick look if I bring it back in 5 days when he's on site. I said all I asked them to do was plug the diagnostic computer in and check for faults. Could he confirm they at least did that....he couldn't!!

I left and when I got back home I thought I would look into it myself. I drained some hydraulic oil out of the system and took the sway bar assembly off. I released one of the pipes going to the hydraulic cylinder and could easily completely compress the cylinder......that was a relief.....I was starting to believe that maybe they knew what they were talking about ;-)

I have now reinstalled everything and need to get the oil replaced. Not sure if I can trust them to do this relatively simple task or take it somewhere else. Also not sure if there's much point in taking it back for the tech to take a look......I'm guessing he'll just spout the same BS.

 

[bluebaron]

I missed one thing. I also asked the service guy when he gave me the 'bad news' to at least get me a cost for the repair.

The note on my worksheet was 'could not recommend any repair due to aftermarket lift on vehicle, if put back to stock can test KDSS system'

 

[Clemsonfan15]

Some of these guys who work at dealerships and private shops completely freak out and forget everything if they see something slightly modified. It seems as if a vehicle comes in with something they don't see everyday then they have no clue what to do.

I personally would not take it to that dealership. Or maybe I would just to show them that they were wrong.

 

[TheSentinel]

Well, I can only say that the Redlands Toyota service department guys have always been polite and helpful any time I brought in my vehicles for TSPs. I wouldn't touch MoVal Toyota with a 10 foot pole. I haven't been to Toyota of San Berdoo, but Toyota of Claremont seems eager to please. Good luck bro.

 

[magaca]

sorry to ask this it might seem stupid, but how do you know if KDSS is working or better said if its not working, thanks

 

[iDRiVaT4R]

Bluebaron, when you say your 4Runner was leaning, was both left or right wheels up high on something and the opposite side was like in a ditch or ravine. If this is the case, KDSS will not do anything. It will really only extend or compress if the opposite tires are compressed, like the front left with rear right tire or front right and rear left. This allows fluid from one cylinder to go to the other cylinder.

As far as I know KDSS will not keep the 4Runner level.

Please clarify more of what your issue is, thanks.

Edit: In these two pics from a few months back you can see that my front is still even side to side, but the rear driver side tire and KDSS piston was compressed. My KDSS still works fine even though in the pic it appears that the front cylinder is stuck. When you think about it, the front KDSS piston should have extended to allow the passenger side front tire to compress more and keep the truck level, the problem though is that the springs up front are heavier duty than the springs out back therefore its way easier to compress the rear than the front, as shown.

 

[bluebaron]

That's a very good point. You're right I am expecting the cylinder to extend when you drive up a rock on the passenger side like you have in your pics and compress when I drive up on the drivers side.

I did the same to test mine and got the same result you did. The Toytec lift puts longer springs front and rear but I wasn't sure if they were so much stiffer that it would stop the KDSS from working.

So I took out some hydraulic fluid from the KDSS system....effectively disabling it. I then did the same test and the front coils compress as expected. I'll take some pictures before I get the KDSS refilled next week.

BTW, do you have any suggestions on a dealer to take it to?

 

[iDRiVaT4R]

Iv'e only dealt with one dealer for Toyota's, Toyota of Escondido, but the most Iv'e ever had done is alignments, everything else I'll pretty much attempted myself, in your case though refilling the KDSS, thats something I wouldn't attempt.

I remember someone on this forum saying that it takes so much pressure before the solenoids open up and let the fluid flow. I know just by looking at them, the KDSS piston up front is much bigger than the rear one. I'm guessing it takes more pressure to get the front to loosen up than the rear. That might be why we experience whats shown in the pic above.

I went off roading a little Saturday up to Big Bear, Route 2N02 from Yucca Valley to Baldwin Lake, and there was one hairy spot, It was dark and I was inside driving but I know for a fact my KDSS piston up front was compressing and extending like it should be. If it hadn't, I would have felt the terrain big time.

 

[bluebaron]

That's good to hear.

I might try Redlands intially as they are reasonably close me. I really just want to find a dealer or independant Toyota Service Center that won't freak out if a modified truck comes in.

 

[MrGrimm]

When I went to install the coilovers on my truck, I had to really push down on the LCA on the passenger side to just fit the coilovers into the mount. I know this must have put alot of stress into the system but after taking the truck offroad, everything is working just like it should. You can see in the following pictures how much droop there is with the KDSS. I didnt get any pictures of the pistons themselves (mainly because there was so much mud that it was difficult to see the pistons).

Does anybody have the actual suspension travel measurements for a stock KDSS equipped 5th Gen?

 

[bluebaron]

I'm thinking that some of us might be unlucky and require a reset after the lift.

Your pictures sure look different to iDRiVaT4R's.

Did you take off the sway bar when you lifted the front? I did but I know some managed without doing it?

 

[nashman69g]

take a look at the FSM. It may help you. SEE sig

 

[MrGrimm]

I'm thinking that some of us might be unlucky and require a reset after the lift.

Your pictures sure look different to iDRiVaT4R's.

Did you take off the sway bar when you lifted the front? I did but I know some managed without doing it?

I disconnected the front sway bar to get the LCA to go down far enough. For the rears I left them on.

 

[iDRiVaT4R]

I really love those Pics MrGrimm!! :thumb3:

When I did my lift I left the sway bar attached, I just used a floor jack under the piston and lifted, that lowered the passenger side to remove and install the the shocks.

Here is a video I took from a while back, while the 4Runner is next to the shrubs on the right of the screen, you can see the front driver tire compress, then near the end, you can tell the piston extended.

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[4RBob]

anyone do a RTI score comparison of the Trail w/ KDSS vs Trail without KDSS?

 

[bluebaron]

I really love those Pics MrGrimm!! :thumb3:

When I did my lift I left the sway bar attached, I just used a floor jack under the piston and lifted, that lowered the passenger side to remove and install the the shocks.

Here is a video I took from a while back, while the 4Runner is next to the shrubs on the right of the screen, you can see the front driver tire compress, then near the end, you can tell the piston extended.

Both pics and video look great. Here's a pic of mine. Not sure if it shows the issue (assuming there was one) well enough. But it looks like I wasn't getting the same compression you guys were getting.

 

[iDRiVaT4R]

4Runner looks good, but yeah the terrain in those particular pics really wouldn't make the KDSS loosen up any.

Where were the pics taken?

 

[bluebaron]

4Runner looks good, but yeah the terrain in those particular pics really wouldn't make the KDSS loosen up any.

Where were the pics taken?

It was on the Mojave road. Wish we had taken more pics when it was really leaning over.

 

[bluebaron]

Had a very frustrating day calling around the Toyota Service Depts in my part of Southern California. Most had never heard of a 4 Runner Trail Edition and none had heard of KDSS. I quoted pages from their own service manual to no avail.

Even Toyota Customer Service told me dealers don't have to service non Toyota systems!! I explained it was and they just gave me more dealer numbers to try.....got the same responses.

Amazing......just wanted the oil replaced and air bled out as outlined in the service manual.

Not sure what to do now.