thanks
Amen Clinic
- Thread starter 1engineer
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thanks
Blah, blah, blah.
Critique the actual study, the methods used, the data collected which resulted in the conclusion. Show where it falls short and can thus be dismissed as fake science.
Was this study Multi-site six month outcome study of comp... [Adv Mind Body Med. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI conducted within standard protocols?
If so, i don't see how one can continue to insist the results are invalid.
If not, please show me specifically where the procedures they used fall short and thus render the findings unreliable.
Your arguments seem to be based upon the premise that Dr. Amen is professionally unethical and scientifically incompetent. Thus, any claim made by him is dismissible out of hand.
If he is actually an ethical professional and competent scientist then his study and its findings are substantive and relevant.
I assert he is an extraordinarily ethical physician and highly competent researcher who is also a morally upstanding human being of great integrity and intelligence.
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Multi-site six month outcome study of comp... [Adv Mind Body Med. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
There are 4 other authors of this study.
Amen DG, Jourdain M, Taylor DV, Pigott HE, Willeumier K.
go to the link
click on their names under the title
peruse the variety and number of studies undertaken by each of them
Uhhh, no. Seriously, you don't understand why i am (and probably medical community) is rejecting your "data"? Have you ever thought why this "substantial" research was not published in the major medical journals? Did that ever cross your mind?
I will wait for this study from an alternative medicine publication to make it to the major medical journals. Until that time, my opinion of AMEN clinic remains the same. EVERYTHING i posted above are from major medical journals.
Hint: I got a research paper published while in med school. It was a rinky-dink paper...but my researcher and I found a vague journal in Brazil to publish it! Does it make me a world-famous specialist in stroke treatment? No. But, to the untrained eyes, my resume looked GREAT!
Like what i wrote in the other thread, in medicine, everything is analyzed and scrutinized to the smallest detail. There is a reason why your "data" went to an alternative medicine publication.
do these meet your standards?
journal of clinical psychiatry
journal of american academy of child adolescent psychiatry
american journal of psychiatry
journal of neuropsychiatry and clinical neurosciences
annals of clinical psychiatry
annals of clinical psychiatry
journal of psychoactive drugs
Thai
Elite Member
I just read the abstract. Being that Dr. Amen is one of the author invalidate the study, since that introduces potential bias...since there are clear secondary gains for the result of this study. Secondly, this is not blinded study. Basically, this involves seeing people initially, do some stuff, and then interview them some time later. There is no group of people that went the traditional psychiatry route to rule out placebo effect. There is no independent protocol nor observer other than the authors.
Again, this is why this study did not make it beyond this small alternative medicine publication. Like i said, i would love to see Dr. Amen's claims validated in a major medical journal. Until then, i stand by my original statements.
Thai
Elite Member
Did the study above you mentioned published in these journals? Cool...where?
Thai
Elite Member
Do you even believe that radiation can cause cancers?
When did i say that he is scientific incompetent? He avoids true blinded study for a reason. My ONLY problem with him is his claim that SPECT is invaluable in the evaluation of psychiatrical diseases. The whole medical community and I disagree with his claims of such. Why? It is because SPECT cannot be used that way with any consistency (a blinded study would show this) and the increase radiation exposure is unnecessary and potentially harmful. PLEASE read the link and posts above regarding radiation. What i wrote in the other thread is 100% true and fully supported.
Otherwise, i am sure that he is a very competent physician and a great guy. I am sure that his clinics have outstanding support staff. Never said otherwise. You seem to misunderstood what i wrote and took things personally for some reason. Are you related to Dr. Amen or work for him? Your last sentence is kinda weird....
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LandCruiser
New member
They inject you with radiotracer and image your brainses. Then they tell you some BS based on how the pictures look (assuming they even look), and how you need to pay them money so your brain can look different.
Scam.
Plus you're radioactive for a while, so maybe you'll turn into the Hulk.
Scam.
Plus you're radioactive for a while, so maybe you'll turn into the Hulk.
Show me the paper. Is it behind a paywall? All I can see is the abstract.
Thai
Elite Member
First things first...have many SPECT scans have you had at Dr. Amen? I read that he requires TWO. Honestly now.
Second, do you believe that radiation causes cancer?
Three, are you sure that you won't need any more scans of any type till the age of 65? Can you guarantee that?
LandCruiser
New member
There is great debate if imaging causes cancer. You want to minimize radiation, especially if it's not necessary... but one bad hospitalization and you'll get fried with CT scans.
BTW, who interprets Dr. Amen's SPECTs? He sounds like a Scientologist with his creative interpretation of the imaging in his articles.
Thai
Elite Member
Forget hospitalization...all you need is to be in a significant (not necessarily life-threatening) car accident and be on a backboard...you will get the full spectrum of x-rays and CTs!
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I am asking a single simple question: do these medical journals meet your standards?
Thai
Elite Member
Sure...but there is no guarantee either. It all depends on study design, authors, and publisher. So, yeah, a medical journal has been known to publish bad studies. This is why New England Journal of Medicine is held in such high regard...they vet the studies before publishing them. But, yeah, there have been cases of bad studies being published by NEJM too (see Vioxx).
Type of study also matters. Observational studies are helpful but not as good as blinded studies...but sometimes, blinded (double blinded even better) are not possible. Here is a quick summary of what makes a good study valid: http://www.oley.org/lifeline/researchvalid.html
So, yeah, go post away dude. But, it does not automatically mean that it is legit. BUT, that article that you posted earlier in this thread is a joke!
Ok, now that i answered your question...ANSWER MINE above.
Two more questions...how old are you? What level of education are you at?
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So you dismiss the study because it was published in a journal you deem 'alternative', but the aforementioned journals are also suspect?
Yeah, I went to school. I know what a double blind study is. They are not the sole study structure through which one may derive legitimate knowledge and data.
We already covered the radiation issue. I'll take the nominal exposure for the enormous benefit.
I have had 2. The baseline scan and the concentration scan. I may go have it done again to compare before proper meds vs after proper meds.
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i guess so.
I do not know if it is behind a paywall. I assume you can google your way to it. I'm not going to because I have no issue with the study. I am willing to accept the results based upon the premise that Dr Amen and the other 4 doctors are both competent and ethical.
NorCalBorn
New member
NorCalBorn
New member
OP, a SPECT scan is only a "Provocatively Interpretable Devise" to coin a phrase. It's subjective to say it easier. Consult a trusted physician or specialist first or get a referral from someone you trust. There's no proof yet, kind of like a colon flush, it's all what you gain from it in the end.
See people, no insult's used to other members and the question is answered in just four sentences.
See people, no insult's used to other members and the question is answered in just four sentences.
NorCalBorn
New member
Yes I misspelled "device", I'll let you figure out why.
