America this week, what the hell?

[Victor_inox]

Yes, size of the country and population density have a lot to do with public transit, what works and is viable in NY will not work and be viable in WY for instance.

What we have here in the USA is special, changing it to what every other place is like is worthless, yep you have a right to be here, and so do I.

But why be here if you just want things to be like other places? Why force this change on others who don't want it?

Diversity. It's a good thing. I don't want every country to be the same just because there are folks who "feel" like it's a good idea.

I don`t want it to be like freaking Europe.
What i want is to be happy without worrying what will happen to my family if I lose my job or get sick.
We all think we are invincible up until shit hits the fan.

 

[Gunslinger-13]

How small government really can be if every freaking county has one?
every city and every state?On top of that bloated structure we have federal.

For the Federal Gov- It should be the smallest possible while still running smoothly, without debt and inside the guidelines set forth in the Constitution.

Local governments should be the same way, small as possible. Efficient. Without debt. Basic functions, systems and services.

Here's the way I see it. If I need to kill an insect, I don't grab a flamethrower and go to town. I swat at it with a shoe.

The smallest/most efficient tool for the job. I see government the same way. it needs to be small and efficient.

What we have now on the federal level is a hydra headed monster. It is a self licking ice cream cone!

 

[Thefishguy77]

Until recently and in some cases it still exists. There are many small cities/towns. And a few counties that are volunteer for most all positions. Very very few paid positions. This helps prevent people from looking at is as an employment opportunity and makes it a service to the community. Can you imagine if we had term limits on all elected offices. That alone would help curb corruption. As to forcing any person in this country to change to a different form of government is oppressive. There no denying it. Forcing your wants and beliefs on another is just that. It's the liberal voter that got so bent out of shape and screen oppression when God is mentioned. But they are the ones who want to completely change the form of government and force it on others. Just like healthcare. They form occupy groups and camp in the cities in the name of protesting corporations. All the while using their cell phones on Facebook and Twitter. Buying food from companies.
Forcing others to change their way to get to work. Forcing other to change what time they leave to work. Forcing others to conform to them. There is a pattern there with the liberal mentality. Read the book
https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Radicals-Practical-Primer-Realistic/dp/0679721134

Then ask yourself is the government working for me. Or are they using me to get their goals. It's a popular book among our current administration. You remember the speech the got plagiarized from the First Lady. Well yea she copied it almost exactly from this book. Read it and find out for yourself where you stand in the scheme of thing. I believe they refer to a certain group of people "helping" them as useful idiots. Education and critical thinking is power. Empower yourself.


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[Gunslinger-13]

I don`t want it to be like freaking Europe.
What i want is to be happy without worrying what will happen to my family if I lose my job or get sick.
We all think we are invincible up until shit hits the fan.

And you have all the ability and opportunity in the world to make the right choices and decisions to set you and your family up for success. Invest wisely. insure yourself properly for what you fear. Increase your earning potential through education and or training.

The government isn't there to bail us out, that is not what it is meant to be. It is meant to provide the basic governing of our country to make certain there isn't power in the hands of the few and thus tyranny. It is meant to provide for basic law and order.

Government should only be a representation of the governed.

What we have now does not represent what we are as a nation- if it does than we are screwed.

If we as a nation want to be controlled in every aspect of our lives by a small group of people who think they know what's best for us, who spend our money like it's going out of style and hand us and future generations the burden of debt through poor choices; well we are doomed if our current government is a true representation of those it governs.

This government is bloated, in bed with anyone who will give them money and power to provide favors and money and power in exchange.

We need to limit the scope of what they control so we don't completely sink the ship.

Just look at our fractional reserve system and the debt we have. Who benefits and what it's doing to the nation.

We need to stop the Fed Gov from bankrupting us and turning us into a third world country. that will happen only through limiting the scope of what they have power over and holding them accountable.

 

[Thefishguy77]

What we have now on the federal level is a hydra headed monster. It is a self licking ice cream cone!

I just about cried laughing at this description. It's sand that it's so true. But damn that's funny.




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[Victor_inox]

And you have all the ability and opportunity in the world to make the right choices and decisions to set you and your family up for success. Invest wisely. insure yourself properly for what you fear. Increase your earning potential through education and or training.

The government isn't there to bail us out, that is not what it is meant to be. It is meant to provide the basic governing of our country to make certain there isn't power in the hands of the few and thus tyranny. It is meant to provide for basic law and order.

Government should only be a representation of the governed.

What we have now does not represent what we are as a nation- if it does than we are screwed.

If we as a nation want to be controlled in every aspect of our lives by a small group of people who think they know what's best for us, who spend our money like it's going out of style and hand us and future generations the burden of debt through poor choices; well we are doomed if our current government is a true representation of those it governs.

This government is bloated, in bed with anyone who will give them money and power to provide favors and money and power in exchange.

We need to limit the scope of what they control so we don't completely sink the ship.

Just look at our fractional reserve system and the debt we have. Who benefits and what it's doing to the nation.

We need to stop the Fed Gov from bankrupting us and turning us into a third world country. that will happen only through limiting the scope of what they have power over and holding them accountable.

It`s wonderful that you have answer to everything, I don`t.

what do I know....
I have PHD in physics and was doing great up until my stroke at the old age of 46. What happening to me after that is a freaking nightmare.
i worked, I paid taxes but it only took Social security 3 years to approve my disability... Should I go work as walmart greeter or should I collect social security I paid for from much higher salary?
i want to be happy but that ship sailed...
there is absolutely nothing I can see to turn it around for me.

 

[Victor_inox]

I just about cried laughing at this description. It's sand that it's so true. But damn that's funny.




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:iagree:

 

[Thefishguy77]

It`s wonderful that you have answer to everything, I don`t.



what do I know....

I have PHD in physics and was doing great up until my stroke at the old age of 46. What happening to me after that is a freaking nightmare.

i worked, I paid taxes but it only took Social security 3 years to approve my disability... Should I go work as walmart greeter or should I collect social security I paid for from much higher salary?

i want to be happy but that ship sailed...

there is absolutely nothing I can see to turn it around for me.

It's unfortunate that happened to you. I am in now way trying to make fun of you but if it took 3 years for the government to approve your disability do you think it would get better if they were in charge of more of your health? Honestly?

Edit: didn't mean to end it there

Did you save for retirement? If so was it enough of a percentage of your income. Once again I am not taking a shot at you. These are hard questions that I am not expecting answer to. But if we as a country were not so caught up on materialism and spent our money wiser we would all be in a better position.

Thanks one of the reasons my wife and I just sold our house. I don't need to live in a 1/2 million dollar house on a .23 acre lot. Pay exorbitant taxes because of the city and county I live in. Look at everyone driving around me with brand new cars and trucks. While I drive my 99.5 Chevy W/260,000 miles on it. Or my 85 4Runner with 200,000+ miles on it. We are moving to Lewis county for now. Good people. Real people. The look you in the eye and shake your hand kinda people who introduce themselves with their first and last name. It's a nice change.

Once again I am sorry about your stroke. So all the money you paid in to SS. Would you not be better off if you had invested that money yourself? When my dad died we got the totals he paid in. He never collected a single check. Always work his whole life. Paid close to $400,000 in to SS. We got a $210 death benefit check. Seems like a poor return on investment to me.

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[Victor_inox]

It's unfortunate that happened to you. I am in now way trying to make fun of you but if it took 3 years for the government to approve your disability do you think it would get better if they were in charge of more of your health? Honestly?


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It`s unfortunate, you right o money there.
They are in charge, i`m on medicare now. I can`t get procedure without it being approved first. Without ACA I`d have no health insurance for the first 3 years and would be dead by now.
my family would dissolve and my son will be leaving with foster family.
That I know for sure. I`ve had commercial long term disability insurance at work and that nightmare I referred to. Government made it possible for me to survive.I think. I can`t be sure with my brain half dead from stroke.

 

[BackOff]

Continually gripe about government, religion, health care...I wonder if the primates will ever realize that the uncontrolled breeding habits of the human monkey will be the death of us all?

I have only been on this planet for 46 years, in that time the worlds population has gone from 3.7 billion to what it sits at now 7.4 BILLION.
No one sees any issues with this? Half the folks alive today were not here 50 years ago. We don't live in the same world as it was 50 years ago, why does everyone think it should be some way it once was.

Humans have until 2050 before we start to see some very unlivable conditions for all, methane has no religion or political policy.
That is what you should worry about, fixing a broken planet, together as one people.

And as another posted, the "system" is only as good as the people who run it.:lookout:

 

[Thefishguy77]

Continually gripe about government, religion, health care...I wonder if the primates will ever realize that the uncontrolled breeding habits of the human monkey will be the death of us all?



I have only been on this planet for 46 years, in that time the worlds population has gone from 3.7 billion to what it sits at now 7.4 BILLION.

No one sees any issues with this? Half the folks alive today were not here 50 years ago. We don't live in the same world as it was 50 years ago, why does everyone think it should be some way it once was.



Humans have until 2050 before we start to see some very unlivable conditions for all, methane has no religion or political policy.

That is what you should worry about, fixing a broken planet, together as one people.



And as another posted, the "system" is only as good as the people who run it.:lookout:

Just like all the ice will melt by 2015?

The largest population growth is in China/India/Brazil. Should we just ban those countries? The largest breeding population in America is Latino. And we are letting them come in to our country unchecked. What do we do about that? What is this event you speak of in 2050. Seems like a convenient number to arbitrarily through out there. Explain please.


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[Victor_inox]

There is only 2 possible scenarios to control population. Education and war.
And war looks more realistic to me.
Imagine how lovely Earth would be if 6 billions people just disappeared?
Maybe we should just stop providing healthcare to everyone and let natural selection do the job?

 

[Gunslinger-13]

It`s wonderful that you have answer to everything, I don`t.

what do I know....
I have PHD in physics and was doing great up until my stroke at the old age of 46. What happening to me after that is a freaking nightmare.
i worked, I paid taxes but it only took Social security 3 years to approve my disability... Should I go work as walmart greeter or should I collect social security I paid for from much higher salary?
i want to be happy but that ship sailed...
there is absolutely nothing I can see to turn it around for me.

I definitely don't have all the answers to everything.

I feel for you and the situation you are in. But that is life, it isn't going to go as planned or behave in a way we can control completely.

The best we can do is make plans and prepare for the worst, hope for the best and take it as it comes.

I know for a fact that if you were never forced/paid into social security and instead invested and saved that money, you would have been in a much better spot than you were following your stroke.

That is a bit of my overall point. When you believe that social security is there to help you through hard times- the safety net or "Social security" it is touted as, you rely on it. You rely on the government to take care of you. Instead we should be relying on ourselves.

Honestly- it doesn't really matter your income or lot in life, there are ways to better yourself if you plan right and take action, the younger/sooner you take action the better.

I know folks who make a million a year, but can barely afford to put gas in their Porsche because of how they mismanage their money, and I know guys who make $40,000.00 a year who have diverse investments/savings and can afford whatever they want because they save/plan/invest.

We all have a certain degree of control over our lives, we all make different choices and live with different consequences.

 

[Victor_inox]

I definitely don't have all the answers to everything.

I feel for you and the situation you are in. But that is life, it isn't going to go as planned or behave in a way we can control completely.

The best we can do is make plans and prepare for the worst, hope for the best and take it as it comes.

I know for a fact that if you were never forced/paid into social security and instead invested and saved that money, you would have been in a much better spot than you were following your stroke.

That is a bit of my overall point. When you believe that social security is there to help you through hard times- the safety net or "Social security" it is touted as, you rely on it. You rely on the government to take care of you. Instead we should be relying on ourselves.

Honestly- it doesn't really matter your income or lot in life, there are ways to better yourself if you plan right and take action, the younger/sooner you take action the better.

I know folks who make a million a year, but can barely afford to put gas in their Porsche because of how they mismanage their money, and I know guys who make $40,000.00 a year who have diverse investments/savings and can afford whatever they want because they save/plan/invest.

We all have a certain degree of control over our lives, we all make different choices and live with different consequences.

what about those people who incapable of managing their money?
What will happen to them if no social programs available?
Porsche owner can sell that car and put food on the table for a year.
Minimum wage worker can`t plan ahead. there is nothing to invest, very little to manage.
Corporations paying just enough that you not revolt.
balance is very important, once off balance society collapse.
We are very close to that point IMHO.

 

[nevada]

Sure. The government forces you to purchase these fine products:

• Paved roads
• Highways
• Local security
• National security
• Education
• Support for the poor and needy
• Scientific research

and an extensive list of further products nearly all of which is money each individual spends so that others may benefit.

oh, silly me. I thought you were being serious. jokes on me. good job.

I had a feeling you might mention something about taxes. but, to answer that question, yes id rather they stopped stealing my money to pay for that.

I pretend to make no claim to have the expertise to know which government should be handling which product. It doesn't matter. Each of us would still be forced to pay for things that other people benefit from. My only point is that the argument of ACA being bad because the government is forcing us to pay for it is an empty one. The government forces us to pay for lots of stuff.

Moving all that stuff to different levels of government does not absolve us of the financial responsibility to support it. We'd just be paying someone else.

the aca is bad. its a disaster actually. our own government is FORCING us to purchase a product. if we do not purchase this product, we are hit with a fine. how in bloody hell can you think that's not a bad thing?

Your healthcare costs have nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the massively profitable private healthcare industry. You pay more and have worse outcomes than nearly any developed country, and in some cases worse than developing countries.

uh, yes they do. I would say they are almost directly related. get the government out of healthcare completely and watch what happens.

Those are much more reasonable arguments against the ACA. I have no idea whether they're true or not, but it doesn't matter. They are not points that I was responding to.



This is the point I was responding to. The government forces us to purchase things that are of social benefit all the time. I asked this guy if he also thought the other things I mentioned should also be abolished for the same reasons.

yes. they should. at least at the federal level.

but, NO government should in any way EVER be in a position to FORCE its citizens to purchase a product. you are talking taxes, and that is a completely different, and ****ed up situation. that money is stolen, and spent however they see fit. that is not the same as a forced purchase. to be honest, its actually worse. but, that's not we were talking about.

Every 4th dollar out or the 10 is 25%, check your arithmetics...
don` blame ACA, blame corporate greed. Also i`d love to see any proof that illegals receiving Health care benefits.SS # required to get any meaningful service these days. Last time I checked you can`t get SS without been born here or naturalized. You can`t even get state ID nor driver's license, no ID no service.

walk into any DSHS/welfare office, and just watch. you will see it. are you telling me every single person in there getting assistance is legal here and has an SS number? not likely...
or got to any emergency room and watch. you cannot be turned away for treatment. are they all legal, with SS numbers? doubtful. but, they will get cared for...

Intellectual property invented by individuals while working for corporation owned by said corporation.
Health is biggest leverage someone can have over patients, we simply don`t have a choice or very little choice.

Government should be able to handle health care, like it does in Europe, japan,etc..
Check this list and tell me why is great country as this not on the list.
Capitalism as we know it in US has failed, it`s time for country to move on.

no. absolutely not. the government cant even handle the MAIL. and you want it in charge of peoples lives/health? hell no.

I don`t want it to be like freaking Europe.
What i want is to be happy without worrying what will happen to my family if I lose my job or get sick.
We all think we are invincible up until shit hits the fan.

that fals under personal responsibility. that's up to YOU, not the government.

I definitely don't have all the answers to everything.

I feel for you and the situation you are in. But that is life, it isn't going to go as planned or behave in a way we can control completely.

The best we can do is make plans and prepare for the worst, hope for the best and take it as it comes.

I know for a fact that if you were never forced/paid into social security and instead invested and saved that money, you would have been in a much better spot than you were following your stroke.

That is a bit of my overall point. When you believe that social security is there to help you through hard times- the safety net or "Social security" it is touted as, you rely on it. You rely on the government to take care of you. Instead we should be relying on ourselves.

Honestly- it doesn't really matter your income or lot in life, there are ways to better yourself if you plan right and take action, the younger/sooner you take action the better.

I know folks who make a million a year, but can barely afford to put gas in their Porsche because of how they mismanage their money, and I know guys who make $40,000.00 a year who have diverse investments/savings and can afford whatever they want because they save/plan/invest.

We all have a certain degree of control over our lives, we all make different choices and live with different consequences.

exactly. and wouldn't have had to wait 3 years to access the money...

 

[ThorInc]

Continually gripe about government, religion, health care...I wonder if the primates will ever realize that the uncontrolled breeding habits of the human monkey will be the death of us all?

I have only been on this planet for 46 years, in that time the worlds population has gone from 3.7 billion to what it sits at now 7.4 BILLION.
No one sees any issues with this? Half the folks alive today were not here 50 years ago. We don't live in the same world as it was 50 years ago, why does everyone think it should be some way it once was.

Humans have until 2050 before we start to see some very unlivable conditions for all, methane has no religion or political policy.
That is what you should worry about, fixing a broken planet, together as one people.

And as another posted, the "system" is only as good as the people who run it.:lookout:

Critical thinking is an abused term in this thread........welcome to the 3 card monty. Whining has it's priviliges, the past is always better for some.

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[nevada]

what about those people who incapable of managing their money?
What will happen to them if no social programs available?
Porsche owner can sell that car and put food on the table for a year.
Minimum wage worker can`t plan ahead. there is nothing to invest, very little to manage.
Corporations paying just enough that you not revolt.
balance is very important, once off balance society collapse.
We are very close to that point IMHO.

just a guess, but without handouts and a security net, they would likely figure out how to handle their finances differently/better.
that's the issue, people are unwilling/unable to do basic things, because they KNOW the government will do it for them.

this is terrible. and honestly, I don't know how they sleep at night.

 

[Elan_]

you are talking taxes, and that is a completely different

What are the objective differences?

 

[Victor_inox]

just a guess, but without handouts and a security net, they would likely figure out how to handle their finances differently/better.
that's the issue, people are unwilling/unable to do basic things, because they KNOW the government will do it for them.

this is terrible. and honestly, I don't know how they sleep at night.

Note that I`m not talking about system cheaters that you probably focused on. you terribly one sided. Hangouts/security nets need to the rest of the population just as they need to poor. Where is no finances there is nothing to manage. How is that hard to grasp? when there is no money they will steal, cheat,rob kill. When your kid couldn't sleep at night hungry You`ll do anything.
At first you`ll exhaust your resources, then your family/friends, then what happens? I hope that will never happens to you, honestly.
I managed to prevent that situation even though barely.

 

[-JD-]

One of the biggest issues with government in America, and here as well, is that it's largely been bought and paid for by capitalists. Why don't American government programs work well and other countries do? Have a look at the education stats I posted earlier, see who is actually paying attention, informed and holding their government accountable. Even this debate here is being flooded by poorly informed individuals making it difficult to make any progress and making people like myself want to just walk away. The idea that government programs can't work has been sold to you by people who want to profit off of the privitization of those industries and the government officials they've purchased/hired to do just that.