America this week, what the hell?

[Thefishguy77]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/politics/hillary-clinton-emails-judicial-watch/index.html


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[Elan_]

you have my interest. what products would those be exactly? do you have a list?

Sure. The government forces you to purchase these fine products:

• Paved roads
• Highways
• Local security
• National security
• Education
• Support for the poor and needy
• Scientific research

and an extensive list of further products nearly all of which is money each individual spends so that others may benefit.

 

[Thefishguy77]

A lot of those fine products would be much better handled at a local level with little to no federal government intervention.

And support for the poor should come from charity. Those evil things called churches used to do most of it. But once the government got involved it became ok to just sit on the government check vs bettering yourself.

And scientific research should be privately funded. Sorry but by the government paying for it its naturally biased towards their agenda. At least if it's privately funded it would be biased in more than one direction. Global warming for example. It was we are going in to an ice age in the 60's-70's to all the worlds ice will melt and many major cities will be underwater late 90's-2010. To well it's climate change but we are still going to find a way to tax you in it. So since the science that said it was correct was paid for by the government that was going to make money on it (carbon tax credits) and then when they were proved wrong, we still have a crap ton of ice today the scientist said what? Not we were wrong, not oops, not our bad, but it's climate change. Yet the federal government still has members in it that are calling for the prosecution of any business that denies global warming. Thank god for now they can't do that. Talk about flat earth thinkers. Disagree with us go to prison or pay a fine. Agree with us and pay a fine. That's government funded science at its finest right there.

National security sure.

Police should be local government only.

Paved roads local government

Highways. Well that relates back to national security, so federal.


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[Elan_]

A lot of those fine products would be much better handled...

I pretend to make no claim to have the expertise to know which government should be handling which product. It doesn't matter. Each of us would still be forced to pay for things that other people benefit from. My only point is that the argument of ACA being bad because the government is forcing us to pay for it is an empty one. The government forces us to pay for lots of stuff.

Moving all that stuff to different levels of government does not absolve us of the financial responsibility to support it. We'd just be paying someone else.

 

[Thefishguy77]

I pretend to make no claim to have the expertise to know which government should be handling which product. It doesn't matter. Each of us would still be forced to pay for things that other people benefit from. My only point is that the argument of ACA being bad because the government is forcing us to pay for it is an empty one. The government forces us to pay for lots of stuff.

Moving all that stuff to different levels of government does not absolve us of the financial responsibility to support it. We'd just be paying someone else.

But it's not an empty one. There are almost more poor/low income people not covered now because it now factors in your credit as well for government assistance. Everybody now pays more money on average with higher deductibles and for less coverage. All those "people with no coverage could still go to any public hospital and get medical coverage back then. We still paid for it. But not nearly as much. Anytime the government gets involved there is never a real concern about keeping it affordable. That's why the name of the act is so humorous.


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[Yukon4Runner]

Hey man, its a REALLY cool view from up here !!! Can see most of Central Park!! ROCK ON!!

Your just after that really really rare Pokemon.

 

[-JD-]

Your healthcare costs have nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the massively profitable private healthcare industry. You pay more and have worse outcomes than nearly any developed country, and in some cases worse than developing countries.

 

[-JD-]

REPORT: Secret Service Questions Trump Campaign on His Invitation to Harm Hillary

 

[Elan_]

But it's not an empty one. There are almost more poor/low income people not covered now because it now factors in your credit as well for government assistance. Everybody now pays more money on average with higher deductibles and for less coverage. All those "people with no coverage could still go to any public hospital and get medical coverage back then. We still paid for it. But not nearly as much. Anytime the government gets involved there is never a real concern about keeping it affordable. That's why the name of the act is so humorous.

Those are much more reasonable arguments against the ACA. I have no idea whether they're true or not, but it doesn't matter. They are not points that I was responding to.

How is not wanting too pay for other peoples shit and not wanting our government to mandate that we must purchase a product

This is the point I was responding to. The government forces us to purchase things that are of social benefit all the time. I asked this guy if he also thought the other things I mentioned should also be abolished for the same reasons.

 

[ThorInc]

REPORT: Secret Service Questions Trump Campaign on His Invitation to Harm Hillary

Come on, you know Trumpet was just joshin', only the crazies would do that anyway (wink, wink)....you think he will pay for the legal fees, he did not offer? :smow:

 

[Thefishguy77]

Your healthcare costs have nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the massively profitable private healthcare industry. You pay more and have worse outcomes than nearly any developed country, and in some cases worse than developing countries.

Actually if you believe in statistics and numbers then they are directly related. When the government decided they were going to start selling medical insurance ACA our rates went up. They gave Medicare and Medcade to people that couldn't afford coverage. But now they are in the normal tax paying market. They also changed what costs insurance companies pay. This is all government related. I know your just arguing to argue but facts and facts. It cost citizens more money. Obama promised all of us a $2500 savings on average. We pay usually more than that in an increase alone. Then take the deductibles in to it and it's ridiculous. I am sure you know more about our health care system than we do because we know all Canadians are smarter than the rest of the world. So please enlighten us. [emoji3]


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[-JD-]

we know all Canadians are smarter than the rest of the world. So please enlighten us. [emoji3]

Woah, I've never said that Canadians are smarter than the rest of the world.

But if you want to play that game... [emoji3]

http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#Table


http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education

 

[Thefishguy77]

Yet no insight as to health care costs. Why am I not shocked.


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[Thefishguy77]

Woah, I've never said that Canadians are smarter than the rest of the world.

But if you want to play that game... [emoji3]

http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#Table


http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education

Funny over the last 16 years the federal government has completely taken over the educations system and process here. See a pattern? Government takes hold and it starts to fail.


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[-JD-]

Yet no insight as to health care costs. Why am I not shocked.


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The ACA was a compromise reached because a real single payer system, or even public option was shot down over and over. Too much money being made in private insurance and campaign contributions for most politicians to be concerned about actual peoples health in the healthcare debate.

Obama Opens the Back Door to a Single-Payer Nationalized Health Plan | The Fiscal Times

 

[-JD-]

Funny over the last 16 years the federal government has completely taken over the educations system and process here. See a pattern? Government takes hold and it starts to fail.

Got figures to back that up??

the US used to score better?

It's hard to take conservatives seriously when they are constantly berating government programs as being useless and wasteful when I personally live in and have witnessed government run programs working successfully both at home and abroad.

You continue to elect people who don't believe in government and then act surprised when they run it poorly.

It can work, there are plenty of countries I could hold up as an example. Blaming the failures of your system simply on them being publicly run is shortsighted. There are problems with the programs in the US, but the fact that they are publicly run is not the sole contributor to them.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Well Reagan was probably the last conservative president. Maybe George senior. And as I have stated before. We have very few conservatives in federal elected offices. So I haven't had time to read your link. Busy working. But I am under the impressions that single payer is socialized. And then that would make it by default fully government run? Working out well so far. Sarcasm in the last sentence.


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[Thefishguy77]

A lot of those fine products would be much better handled at a local level with little to no federal government intervention.

And support for the poor should come from charity. Those evil things called churches used to do most of it. But once the government got involved it became ok to just sit on the government check vs bettering yourself.

And scientific research should be privately funded. Sorry but by the government paying for it its naturally biased towards their agenda. At least if it's privately funded it would be biased in more than one direction. Global warming for example. It was we are going in to an ice age in the 60's-70's to all the worlds ice will melt and many major cities will be underwater late 90's-2010. To well it's climate change but we are still going to find a way to tax you in it. So since the science that said it was correct was paid for by the government that was going to make money on it (carbon tax credits) and then when they were proved wrong, we still have a crap ton of ice today the scientist said what? Not we were wrong, not oops, not our bad, but it's climate change. Yet the federal government still has members in it that are calling for the prosecution of any business that denies global warming. Thank god for now they can't do that. Talk about flat earth thinkers. Disagree with us go to prison or pay a fine. Agree with us and pay a fine. That's government funded science at its finest right there.

National security sure.

Police should be local government only.

Paved roads local government

Highways. Well that relates back to national security, so federal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it's not an empty one. There are almost more poor/low income people not covered now because it now factors in your credit as well for government assistance. Everybody now pays more money on average with higher deductibles and for less coverage. All those "people with no coverage could still go to any public hospital and get medical coverage back then. We still paid for it. But not nearly as much. Anytime the government gets involved there is never a real concern about keeping it affordable. That's why the name of the act is so humorous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your healthcare costs have nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the massively profitable private healthcare industry. You pay more and have worse outcomes than nearly any developed country, and in some cases worse than developing countries.

Actually if you believe in statistics and numbers then they are directly related. When the government decided they were going to start selling medical insurance ACA our rates went up. They gave Medicare and Medcade to people that couldn't afford coverage. But now they are in the normal tax paying market. They also changed what costs insurance companies pay. This is all government related. I know your just arguing to argue but facts and facts. It cost citizens more money. Obama promised all of us a $2500 savings on average. We pay usually more than that in an increase alone. Then take the deductibles in to it and it's ridiculous. I am sure you know more about our health care system than we do because we know all Canadians are smarter than the rest of the world. So please enlighten us. [emoji3]


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The ACA was a compromise reached because a real single payer system, or even public option was shot down over and over. Too much money being made in private insurance and campaign contributions for most politicians to be concerned about actual peoples health in the healthcare debate.



Obama Opens the Back Door to a Single-Payer Nationalized Health Plan | The Fiscal Times

Ok so where do you say that our sudden rise in healthcare directly related to the implementation of ACA is not the fault of the ACA? I said it was gave some real world examples on how it has effected myself and my friends in previous posts. Especially being self employed. I quoted all of today's conversation and you have not given evidence to the contrary. Instead you posted an article regarding Obama opening the back door to a single payer system.

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/r...e-was-supposed-lower-health-care-costs-has-it

Factcheck.org a left leaning site even give the ACA credit for increasing health care costs. Also saying the probably a main reason for the slowing cost increase is the recession and not the ACA itself.
http://www.factcheck.org/2014/02/aca-impact-on-per-capita-cost-of-health-care/



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[Victor_inox]

Your healthcare costs have nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the massively profitable private healthcare industry. You pay more and have worse outcomes than nearly any developed country, and in some cases worse than developing countries.

This. Every 4th dollar is in healthcare industry. 10 years ago it was every 8th.
I see my doctor for 5 minutes and he is paid $80 for just that I was there.
I spent 4 hours in outpatient surgery and insurance bill is 60 thousand.
who can afford this? I can`t. in my neighborhood there 4 new walk in clinics opened in 5 years, not free kind.
Healthcare struggle.... my ass.

 

[-JD-]

Factcheck.org a left leaning site even give the ACA credit for increasing health care costs. Also saying the probably a main reason for the slowing cost increase is the recession and not the ACA itself.
ACA Impact on Per Capita Cost of Health Care

So which one is it? did the ACA increase the rate of rising healthcare costs, or did it slow it?

Healthcare costs were already on the rise before the ACA, right?

You're once again twisting the argument into a debate that suits your argument, not the point I was originally making.
Either way I think I'm done debating these issues with you. I don't think any amount of data or facts will sway your position. You've demonstrated your extreme confirmation bias across multiple issues posting links from sites like infowars and tabloid newspapers. So at this point I feel like I'm wasting my time.