Victor_inox
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wholeheartedly agreed with that.:clap2:
America this week, what the hell?
- Thread starter amalik
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wholeheartedly agreed with that.:clap2:
Thefishguy77
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Well the idea that only the government can make it work has been proven wrong time and again in this country. Remember we have lawyers running our country. Lawyers are not all bad people. But stereotypes exist for a reason. Most are more interested in money that doing what's correct. The American education system is a prime example. We have unionized teachers that it virtually impossible to fire if they suck. That's thanks to president Kennedy. Legalizing collective bargaining made it good for every group that formed a union. And terrible if your not in one. Our education system has been pretty much federal government run for how long? And our public education sucks. So we need more government? Our roads and bridges are deplorable. Obama had shovel ready jobs for us. How much did the government provide the "pre-approved" funding for. Government help again. The VA healthcare system? All the ABC agencies that can't even do their job correctly. And we are arming them with military grade weapons and armor. But the government tells us we should have the same stuff as civilians? Are government has proven corrupt since the 20's. That's also about when the flip of elected officials began. Used to be business men would get in to elected office. And a few lawyers. Law were simple and short. A page or 3 on average. It was about a 70%-30% split businessmen-lawyers ratio. Now if flipped completely opposite. Bills are so long nobody can read one in a month. There is disclaimer after disclaimer in them loophole after loophole. And we need more of this. SS was a safety net for those directly affect by the Great Depression. Those folks also didn't live for 40 years after retirement. It was never meant to be a additive to your retirement. It was meant to be for unforeseen disasters. But like all government programs people will take what's given them.
The parks service says don't feed the wildlife because they will not learn to feed themselves.
Maybe they are on to something there.
We have people working full time jobs at a fast food place and that's their goal. A job that was for high school kids to have a little gas money. In sorry but if that's your plan to work fast food as a career. Then you have failed to plan and you should not get bailed out.
No as one member here had a unforeseen stroke. That is different. That's a disaster that is very hard to plan for and some assistance should be there. But we keep all these entitlements in place for anyone who puts a hand out. Well what do you expect is going to happen. I had a friend that got laid off after making about 65k a year for 7 ish years. Not good with money but paid his bills. After he was on unemployment he stayed there because it was easier. He would go and apply for jobs he didn't have a chance to get. Turn his paperwork in and get approved to keep getting it. And they kept extending it so he decided to stay on it. There is a patter there. And it's more common than most want to believe.
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Victor_inox
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Never blame yourself if you can blame the system.
Abuse of the system is different topic, criminal i might add.
Abuse of the system is different topic, criminal i might add.
Thefishguy77
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I blame the people. We have voted this in time and time again. And I blame the political establishment for failure to uphold their oath of office. To serve their own interest vs uphold the constitution.
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Thefishguy77
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Personally I have been trying to wake people up for years. I think Bernie supporters are awake now. They realize that the system is totally rigged. Most still believe there are 2 parties in America. I believe there is one party and they use a different name to sound different. If you pay attention to what they say about the other side when they campaign. And then watch their actions when they are in office. It's hard to miss. They pat backs. There version of compromise is not in anyone best interest but their own. Compromise is necessary. It's how our country was founded. But it's not supposed to be. Well if you want me to vote for this you have to put funding in here for this project. Each bill should only address the bill they are passing.
It's obvious if you are willing to confront the reality. If not then it's easy to not see it.
Think about it. Nixon was facing impeachment and resigned for deleting 30 minutes of tape. Clinton erased 30,000 emails that we know of. Lied to congress. And she's running for president. Not to mention all the other small items. Like destroying or deleting classified documents in a non approved manner. That actually prohibits you from running for elected office
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It's obvious if you are willing to confront the reality. If not then it's easy to not see it.
Think about it. Nixon was facing impeachment and resigned for deleting 30 minutes of tape. Clinton erased 30,000 emails that we know of. Lied to congress. And she's running for president. Not to mention all the other small items. Like destroying or deleting classified documents in a non approved manner. That actually prohibits you from running for elected office
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-JD-
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Take a look at those stats I posted again. Tell me of all the countries that scored better than the US, how many have a public education system? the vast majority of them? Please tell me more about how government involvement equates a poor education system...
Abuse of the system happens, of course. I dont think anyone supports it.
Kind of odd that you berate people out there working their asses off full time at shit fast food jobs, but not your 'friend' who is sitting on his ass abusing the system.
Maybe your friend should go get a job at McDonald's?
Or is he too good for that?
Is it that the minimum wage is too low and not livable?
The average fast food worker is now 29 years old and just over 25% of them are supporting families.
Thefishguy77
New member
I chastised my friend almost daily. To the point where we stopped hanging out. And people that are happy making minimum wage but say it needs to pay more. Well the problem is not it needs to pay more. It's you need to try harder. I don't care how hard you work. Part of that hard work is helping yourself. Not waiting for the government to help you. Some times you have to move. I'm not a union advocate but apply to join a union as an apprentice. Learn a skill that actually pays real wages. Help yourself move up.
I am not saying other countries government run schools don't work. I am saying our government is incapable of running anything successfully. The results speak for themselves.
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I am not saying other countries government run schools don't work. I am saying our government is incapable of running anything successfully. The results speak for themselves.
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Victor_inox
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I think we hit dead end.
Thefishguy77
New member
Fair enough.
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wadle5
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That was about 1,000 posts ago. . . . .
Jernik
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On some levels I agree with you entitely here. But then, we have to realize not everyone has the mental capacity to just learn better skills and move up to be the CEO. There are a lot of people, for reasons not of their making, that just are not capable of learning much more than menial jobs.
I'm thinking specifically of some people that work in a local grocery. This place hires several handicapped people to bag groceries, round up carts, etc., and the employees try their hardest and really, they do a good job. They're proud of having a job. I would say they try harder and do better than most people who don't have disabilities. But they wouldn't be able to learn how to cut meat as a butcher or run the deli.
To take that thought further, there are a lot of people who are not obviously handicapped, but function low mentally. Should they not be allowed to earn enough to at least provide food, shelter, and clothing for themselves in the market they live and work?
The brutal truth is that it takes more than just hard work and determination. Most of us are limited at some point by our cognitive or physical abilities. Most never reach their full potential due to laziness, complacency, or a myriad of excuses (myself included). Hard work and determination will help one strive towards their full potential, but for some that bar is much lower than it is for others.
Yukon4Runner
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Hulk smash!
Thefishguy77
New member
I think you are speaking about a very low percentage on people working those jobs. There has always been some sort of assistance for people with mental disabilities. And I applaud them for get a job like that. But for the gal that works in the jack n the box I go to a few days a week. Well she is more than capable of getting a better job. That is what I am referring to. And you can join the union and get a job doing traffic. Very low physical demand. Carpenters,pipe layers,ect. And get much better than the $15/hr fix all minimum wage they all speak of. And great health insurance even if your not working on a job at the moment.
There are a lot of programs out there that will help provide you with clothes so you can interview for companies and get a reception job. It's reception but it's a foot in the door and bosses reward drive and hard work. Many companies will pay for you to go to school so they can give you a better job. But you have to show them you belong there.
Even if you go and get a job doing labor for a construction company you at least giving yourself the opportunity to move up. Packing lumber can turn in to holding the clipboard in around 10 years. Once again you need to help yourself.
With one of those jobs you can save money. Maybe not a ton but it's possible. From there? Start your own business? Coffee stand? Speciality contractor? Cleaning service, landscape? Auto detailing/easy repair? But no one is going to do it for you. And by constantly saying it's ok we will make it better for you. You are in effect limiting that person to what ever effort you tell them you will do for them.
(You being government)
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There are a lot of programs out there that will help provide you with clothes so you can interview for companies and get a reception job. It's reception but it's a foot in the door and bosses reward drive and hard work. Many companies will pay for you to go to school so they can give you a better job. But you have to show them you belong there.
Even if you go and get a job doing labor for a construction company you at least giving yourself the opportunity to move up. Packing lumber can turn in to holding the clipboard in around 10 years. Once again you need to help yourself.
With one of those jobs you can save money. Maybe not a ton but it's possible. From there? Start your own business? Coffee stand? Speciality contractor? Cleaning service, landscape? Auto detailing/easy repair? But no one is going to do it for you. And by constantly saying it's ok we will make it better for you. You are in effect limiting that person to what ever effort you tell them you will do for them.
(You being government)
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Jernik
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I had to look for external sources of data, and am not 100% sure these are foolproof, but they are close to what I was thinking.
Description of IQ ranges and cognitive ability.
I.Q. ranges and real-life functioning
From that link, we can see anyone with an IQ of 89 and below typically can excel in an environment that is structured, repetitive, and does not require critical thinking skills or decision making.
World avg. IQ.
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country#
This one shows the US avg. IQ to be 98. I saw one that had us at 104. Had a hard time finding a chart of where the IQ's in the US fall, but did find this generic bell curve graph...
Judging by the average being 98 (+ or -), we can deduce that a fair portion will be well above or below that average. Looking at 89 and under as being generally relegated to menial types of jobs that require no critical thinking skils, the bell curve suggests that 16% of people will have an IQ under 85. Thus, in theory, around 1 of every 6 people in the US will be quite limited in their ability to learn trade skills, run their own business, or have much opportunity to excel financially.
Description of IQ ranges and cognitive ability.
I.Q. ranges and real-life functioning
From that link, we can see anyone with an IQ of 89 and below typically can excel in an environment that is structured, repetitive, and does not require critical thinking skills or decision making.
World avg. IQ.
https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country#
This one shows the US avg. IQ to be 98. I saw one that had us at 104. Had a hard time finding a chart of where the IQ's in the US fall, but did find this generic bell curve graph...
Judging by the average being 98 (+ or -), we can deduce that a fair portion will be well above or below that average. Looking at 89 and under as being generally relegated to menial types of jobs that require no critical thinking skils, the bell curve suggests that 16% of people will have an IQ under 85. Thus, in theory, around 1 of every 6 people in the US will be quite limited in their ability to learn trade skills, run their own business, or have much opportunity to excel financially.
Hepar
New member
I think the issue is that the cost of living has greatly surpassed the lowest earning wages. There was a time in the not-so-distant past where if you were willing to put in a full weeks work, you could earn a living wage. And not just for yourself, but for your family. The snowball effect it has now is that it forces many families to have two parents working to earn enough to raise a child. Which then has its own effects as well. Obviously I'm not saying that every family with two working parents instantly makes that a negative situation.
nevada
Senior Member
I stated that in the rest of that paragraph you chose not to include in your quote. that money is stolen, and spent however the government sees fit. its added into a collective pot, and distributed however. those things you mentioned being used by everyone. the aca is a product each individual is being told(forced) to go out and purchase on their own, under threat of a fine.
the problem is the government has no right to tell someone what they must buy. how can you think that's OK?
what about any other product? what if they came out and said you had to purchase a cell phone. the brand didn't matter, but you must buy one, or face a penalty. would that sit well with you?
because they aren't America. OUR government cannot do it. they have proven they are unable to successfully do pretty much everything.
this.
whatever their situation, if that is what they are worth, then that is what they are worth. raising the wage wont make them worth any more. though, it does devalue everyone else that IS worth more.
it might be sad, but not everyone is equal.
location is a factor for sure, but you could definitely LIVE on minimum wage. you would just have the basics, but alive you would be.
nobody is entitled to a cell phone, or car, fancy wheels, TV's stereos, a house(homeowner) etc.. there is a lot of money left over when you aren't paying for all those things you don't NEED to live. if what you are making isn't enough, you have to do something to be worth more. whatever that may be.
to the 2nd part, if a single worker in your household is not making enough to pay for a kid, or child care so the 2nd parent can work, DONT HAVE THE KID!
it comes back to personal responsibility. people no longer feel the need to be responsible for themselves. because someone else will take care of them...
Hepar
New member
To add to my statement above. Please don't assume that from what I'm saying above, that I automatically feel the minimum wage should be higher. Again, this is a multi-layerd issue with so many different complications. I don't feel like simply raising the minimum wage will do anything to solve the problem.
Hepar
New member
But my point wasn't about a living wage based on basics. I was speaking about a wage for a family. And to your point about not having a family if you can't afford one, I agree to that. My point was that there was a time where you could if you were willing to put in a full weeks work. And I feel like you should still be able to.
Is it not amazing since your statement that you have had to post two caveats as you know that you will need to for a few people..........I am sorry, I just had to point out the obvious.
:bluejump:
nevada
Senior Member
i got your point. my point is people choose to mismanage their money, because they know someone will always take care of them when they **** up.
it still falls to personal responsibility, or lack thereof rather.
I think that could still be done now. but people cant/don't/wont do it. they MUST have the newest greatest thing as soon as it comes out. friggin cell phones are like what $600 now? plus the data package that goes with it each month. its ridiculous and unnecessary spending. many people get a new one every year!
it is a deeper problem, I agree. our schools aren't teaching students things they need to know to be able to thrive in this world.
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