America this week, what the hell?

[Thefishguy77]

I guess then a better question might be something like. Why has society in the USA done such a poor job teaching history. That they incorrectly teach what flags were flying during the civil war?

Tinfoil hat time: maybe pushing an agenda?


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[Hepar]

Agreed but as pointed out earlier the confederate flag has also changed as well.

Completely agree. But the one used now is the one that was changed at a specific point. It didn't change post-civil war nor post-civil rights of the 50's/60's. I would be 100% on board (as I stated above most like at the same time you wrote your response) that if you were to change the flag, go ahead and fly it. No reason to fly it as it stands now.

 

[Victor_inox]

I guess then a better question might be something like. Why has society in the USA done such a poor job teaching history. That they incorrectly teach what flags were flying during the civil war?

Tinfoil hat time: maybe pushing an agenda?


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good point.6 Ridiculous Lies You Believe About the Founding of America

 

[nevada]

Now, do I think it's absolutely ridiculous that one of the reactions was to yank Dukes of Hazzard off the air because the General Lee has the flag on its roof? You bet.

that right there could be a valid reason to fly that flag. simply for the looks. that would have nothing to do with race, or racism.
but according to some here, even IF that is your motivation for having it, you are a racist. well ok then. case closed I guess...

 

[Hepar]

I guess then a better question might be something like. Why has society in the USA done such a poor job teaching history. That they incorrectly teach what flags were flying during the civil war?

Tinfoil hat time: maybe pushing an agenda?

Oh man. Don't even start with the educational system here. That's a whole new discussion. But I guess the title of this thread is America...What the Hell...

 

[Hepar]

that right there could be a valid reason to fly that flag. simply for the looks. that would have nothing to do with race, or racism.
but according to some here, even IF that is your motivation for having it, you are a racist. well ok then. case closed I guess...

To me it's not a "if A then B" correlation. That is if you fly the Confederate flag you are a racist. I know you implied others feeling that way and not me specifically. In my view it's more of a perception that just doesn't seem worth it to open. Say I as a Japanese guy walk into a bar deep into the south and everyone inside is wearing something with the confederate flag on it. I may not feel that everyone is racist and they all may not be, but I'm either going to leave or keep my ears up and eyes open.

It seems there are two sides to flying it if you're not a racist. Either you don't know about the perception it has or you don't care.

 

[Jernik]

It seems pretty simple to me. The only reason you could justifiable give me to fly the Confederate flag is that you are from the South and proud of it. But why couldn't you just adopt a new Southern flag that represents that and only that?

My guess is that would be shot down and labeled racist too. Like if the KKK tried to switch to blue sheets... even though southern pride does not = KKK.

 

[Thefishguy77]

To me it's not a "if A then B" correlation. That is if you fly the Confederate flag you are a racist. I know you implied others feeling that way and not me specifically. In my view it's more of a perception that just doesn't seem worth it to open. Say I as a Japanese guy walk into a bar deep into the south and everyone inside is wearing something with the confederate flag on it. I may not feel that everyone is racist and they all may not be, but I'm either going to leave or keep my ears up and eyes open.

It seems there are two sides to flying it if you're not a racist. Either you don't know about the perception it has or you don't care.

To ban it and abolish it would be a great disservice to history. It should also be taught that more that just the KKK and racists like that flag. And why they love it. A big part of southern pride is a resistance to tyranny. Also if you believe the civil war was about power more than just slaves that would give credit to the perception that the confederate flag still stands for those in the south that feel the north fought the war to gain control over their states.

The founding of America was independent states united for security and commerce. Not about all drink the same cool aid at all.
Just a different perspective.


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[ThorInc]

To me it's not a "if A then B" correlation. That is if you fly the Confederate flag you are a racist. I know you implied others feeling that way and not me specifically. In my view it's more of a perception that just doesn't seem worth it to open. Say I as a Japanese guy walk into a bar deep into the south and everyone inside is wearing something with the confederate flag on it. I may not feel that everyone is racist and they all may not be, but I'm either going to leave or keep my ears up and eyes open.

It seems there are two sides to flying it if you're not a racist. Either you don't know about the perception it has or you don't care.

I think I kinda of get this, it makes you think twice and raises the hairs on your neck; last time I had that happen was with an unexpected encounter with a moose at twilight.

 

[Hepar]

My guess is that would be shot down and labeled racist too. Like if the KKK tried to switch to blue sheets... even though southern pride does not = KKK.

You make be right. But why not try?

To ban it and abolish it would be a great disservice to history. It should also be taught that more that just the KKK and racists like that flag. And why they love it. A big part of southern pride is a resistance to tyranny. Also if you believe the civil war was about power more than just slaves that would give credit to the perception that the confederate flag still stands for those in the south that feel the north fought the war to gain control over their states.

The founding of America was independent states united for security and commerce. Not about all drink the same cool aid at all.
Just a different perspective.

I'm definitely not saying to ban and abolish it. I feel there is a history there and it needs to be kept and taught as well as so much other parts of our history that gets conveniently left out. But it no longer has a place on government grounds.

I think I kinda of get this, it makes you think twice and raises the hairs of your neck; last time I had that happen was with an unexpected encounter with a moose at twilight.

That would do more that raise the hairs on the back of my neck.

 

[ThorInc]

I don't really follow the confederate flag stuff but did they not just ban it in government offices and possibly certain public institutions? I can't see them being able to ban a private citizen from flying it.

 

[Thefishguy77]

As to government grounds. Who actually gets to make that decision. Most of these taking down of the flag and removing of the monuments have been snap decisions done by the government. If this is a government of the people for the people and by the people then shouldn't these decision be put to a vote of the people.

It's the same with no church references on government grounds. Based on the separation of church and state.

That is another lie taught to us to fit a groups agenda. Separation of church and state is solely listed in the founding documents to deny the church a seat in government. We modeled our government after England where the Royal Church of England sits on the government with the senate and the representatives.
Hence the religious influence in the English government for 100's of years.

It was not intended to say that government could not have the 10 commandments or a Christian cross or any other religious symbol for that matter. They used to pray before each session of congress. The presidents oath says so help me god. Churches could and would double as local government meeting places. It's just one more lie we have been taught by "those in charge".

Sorry for the tangent


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[Hepar]

Sorry for the tangent

Ha! I was reading that and before I got to your above statement I was thinking, "He's really going off on a tangent." :cheers:

 

[RunninInGA]

The conversation about the flag is strange to me. I know as many black guys with confederate flag stickers on their trucks as I do white guys and I live in a major metro area. When I go to our farm in south GA, a majority of the folks we see and hang around are black and most of us don't see skin color as an issue - a man's character is far more important.

Like anything else, the fear/paranoia seems to be based in something other than reality.

 

[Hepar]

The conversation about the flag is strange to me. I know as many black guys with confederate flag stickers on their trucks as I do white guys and I live in a major metro area. When I go to our farm in south GA, a majority of the folks we see and hang around are black and most of us don't see skin color as an issue - a man's character is far more important.

Like anything else, the fear/paranoia seems to be based in something other than reality.

Agree there. As well as the Dukes had plenty of black friends who didn't have an issue with their charger and probably flew the flag themselves. The thing is that we no longer are in isolated pockets. Social media for example reaches all corners of the world. As well as I bet your black friends who fly the flag, if they were to get way out of their locational area of comfort, say to the rural areas of LA, even they would have a bit of hesitation if they came across a large group of people flying the flag.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Social media is part of the problem. When you get 500-1000 people saying the same thing on a trendy form of communication. It must be a problem that needs to be addressed.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease after all.


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[Hepar]

Social media is part of the problem. When you get 500-1000 people saying the same thing on a trendy form of communication. It must be a problem that needs to be addressed.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease after all.

There is that for sure, but there is also the side that if you're going to enter that world, you have to understand that what may fly in your small local circle, may not fly nationally or globally. And that it is important to have that awareness. You can have a circle of friends where you call each other fags for example. And have no ill meaning behind it. I have a friend who uses the term all the time who's mother is gay. But he also knows it's about place and connotation. He's not going to go on social media and call someone a fag, even if it's in jest with no ill intent behind it. I have friends who will jokingly call me a Jap and I have zero issues with it because I know them and I know their meaning behind it. But if a stranger on the street were to call me one, I'd have a serious issue with it.

It's all about being aware of the reaches even tiny things have these days.

 

[ndcent]

Museums and history books is where it has it's most appropriate place.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Museums and history books is where it has it's most appropriate place.

And your completely entitled to that opinion.


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[jeremyc74]

Dude. I got a pm complaining about your posts. Back off or you are banned. Everyone else in this thread knows this but apparently you just joined this rabbit hole conversation. And as far as I know, this person who complained has not ever posted in off topic but was complaining of your "tone." I don't care if others do it and I have not been following this for several weeks. Clean it up. No excuses.

-mod-

Oh come on now! I was insulted repeatedly for nearly four straight pages, and threatened with violence, but it's my tone this person is complaining about?! That just doesn't wash.

Look at the posts immediately following yours in the thread and you'll see why I've taken a harsh tone with a couple of posters.

I'll leave it alone, but you're wrong for publicly singling me out as the problem here. That's not moderation, it's taking a side in the argument.