America this week, what the hell?

[Victor_inox]

That's making my point more that we can not trust the federal government to run a single payer system in health care. Any more than we can trust them to do the right thing with the criminal justice system.

As to your question regarding inmates we will never know. I am sure if we put that money towards education it would help some but I would be surprised if it did a large percentage. After all who you are is based on who your parents raised you to be. If they were absentee parents due to work or divorce or never married or jail then I doubt anything but education would possible help and usually that only helps if you have family there to encourage you to go get educated.

Crime usually starts at a young age. Not a choice a lot of adults go out and say. I'm sick of working think I'm going to be a criminal. As for other handouts at what point do we draw the line of your not teaching them to work your teaching them to put a handout.


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And that`s making my point- change god damn government! you believe you entitled to by constitution.

At some point I worked with DOJ/DOC I know a thing or two about corrections. Many inmates would have done things differently if given a chance. in US recidivism rate is 76.6%
Most of prison population consists of people making minimum wage outside, one would think that it somehow related.
I spoke to inmates who is inside for writing bad checks, stealing food,etc. clearly not to make a profit but rather make it day to day.
US has 25% of world prison population,yet only 2% of world population.
question is "Cui bono" as always?

 

[Victor_inox]

No. It was the privatization of the system and the profit motive that has corrupted the criminal justice system. The same problem you have with healthcare costs.

Right and he conveniently missed it.

 

[nevada]

You've pretty much confessed your ignorance in this post. You have no idea how things work here.

I've been to the US. Lots.

Also, I'm not speaking only of Canada. Single payer healthcare systems exist in nearly every developed country besides the US, and they work. Have you ever visited any of these countries and experienced the systems there?

Again, you have no basis for your assumption on how things would work in the US. Some vague comparison to other government programs isn't really an apples to apples comparison. Nor is it even true that all government programs in the US dont work, or fail.

again, given our history, it wouldn't work.

however much you think it would, BASED on the way things are currently, and how they have been in the past, IT WILL NOT WORK.

 

[Victor_inox]

IF YOU USE ALL CAPS IT WOULD MAKE IT SOMEHOW UNQUESTIONABLE???
:doh:

 

[Thefishguy77]

IF YOU USE ALL CAPS IT WOULD MAKE IT SOMEHOW UNQUESTIONABLE???

:doh:

No but when you tell someone who is an apparent expert in American government politics the same thing so many time. After a While maybe try all caps to see if that sinks in.


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[Victor_inox]

No but when you tell someone who is an apparent expert in American government politics the same thing so many time. After a While maybe try all caps to see if that sinks in.


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Brilliant! Next time I`ll try it on YOU. Or wait you too an expert in American government politics, i should just accept your opinion....:eyebrows:
Side question, do you dictate answers on your phone? your replies seems to be very quick. Or is it SIRI does it for you?

 

[Thefishguy77]

And that`s making my point- change god damn government! you believe you entitled to by constitution.



At some point I worked with DOJ/DOC I know a thing or two about corrections. Many inmates would have done things differently if given a chance. in US recidivism rate is 76.6%

Most of prison population consists of people making minimum wage outside, one would think that it somehow related.

I spoke to inmates who is inside for writing bad checks, stealing food,etc. clearly not to make a profit but rather make it day to day.

US has 25% of world prison population,yet only 2% of world population.

question is "Cui bono" as always?

I do believe I am entitled to a government that is run under the constraints of the Constitution of United States of America. As that's the country I was born in, the country my family on both sides has served and been shot and died for. They died because the swore an oath to up hold the Constitution against all enemies both foreigners and domestic. It happens that at the moment the biggest enemy of the Constitution is a domestic one. Established dug in politicians.

To change the style of government because you don't like the corruption involved in it is foolish. You are not addressing the root of the problem, corruption, but only taking off one bandaid and putting on another. There is corruption in almost all forms of government. At least with our republic we have a chance to vote out the corruption and vote in new blood.

As has been brought up here many times before in this thread. We need to end career politicians. Term limits on all elected offices and term limits on all judicial branches including the supreme. That combined with banning lobbing and taking the salary of an elected official would highly encourage people to run to "make a change" but then go back to normal life. Not stay in for the $100,000+ a year and ridiculous pension that follows.

Until we address the corruption issue absolutely no form of government will work any better and most would do worse in a country as large as ours.

As to the massive difference between our prison vs population issue I can't say anything that's not controversial. But I will try to lay it out as I see it. According to all the hype we see on TV and the radio there are more blacks from low income areas in prison than any other race. These areas are constantly electing democrats who are campaigning on the fact that if they don't get elected their situation will worsen. Cities- Atlanta, Detroit, Seattle, Tacoma, St Louis. States-California, DC, NY, Washington to name but just a few that have high crime problems and are democrat states and have been. I am not saying republican controlled states don't have crime but if you look at all the "police brutality, BLM" stuff it's in democrat states. The fact remains that until we address the "leadership" of these problem areas aka government nothing will change. These leaders are being voted in by the people in their areas and it's these same areas where crime is a rampant problem. An overwhelming percent of ex inmates with voting rights restored will register as democrats vs republicans. They will vote the same people in as before and get the same result.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...erwhelming-majority-violent-criminals-democr/
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jail-survey-nearly-34-felons-register-as-democrats/article/2541412
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/01/01/felons-register-as-democrat-over-republican-by-6-to-1-91647


The war on drugs was started by Nixon and doubled down on by his successor. Both republicans. It's stupid and may have started this problem. But it was accelerated by B. Clinton.
This is a good article referencing a major cause for this overwhelming prison problem.
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...sponsible-our-current-police-and-prison-state

Also brining back capital punishment vs Life without parole would be a big deterrent. Why should we waste millions of dollars keeping someone incarcerated than isn't safe to ever let back out on the streets? These are some of the same people that "run" the prison gangs and have nothing to loose being an "enforcer" in those gangs as well.



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[Thefishguy77]

Brilliant! Next time I`ll try it on YOU. Or wait you too an expert in American government politics, i should just accept your opinion....:eyebrows:

Side question, do you dictate answers on your phone? your replies seems to be very quick. Or is it SIRI does it for you?

I actually only use my phone. I don't use Siri at all. And when my son is sleeping is when I'm on my phone. I noticed the same about you as well for your reply time


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[Victor_inox]

I do believe I am entitled to a government that is run under the constraints of the Constitution of United States of America. As that's the country I was born in, the country my family on both sides has served and been shot and died for. They died because the swore an oath to up hold the Constitution against all enemies both foreigners and domestic. It happens that at the moment the biggest enemy of the Constitution is a domestic one. Established dug in politicians.

To change the style of government because you don't like the corruption involved in it is foolish. You are not addressing the root of the problem, corruption, but only taking off one bandaid and putting on another. There is corruption in almost all forms of government. At least with our republic we have a chance to vote out the corruption and vote in new blood.

As has been brought up here many times before in this thread. We need to end career politicians. Term limits on all elected offices and term limits on all judicial branches including the supreme. That combined with banning lobbing and taking the salary of an elected official would highly encourage people to run to "make a change" but then go back to normal life. Not stay in for the $100,000+ a year and ridiculous pension that follows.

Until we address the corruption issue absolutely no form of government will work any better and most would do worse in a country as large as ours.

As to the massive difference between our prison vs population issue I can't say anything that's not controversial. But I will try to lay it out as I see it. According to all the hype we see on TV and the radio there are more blacks from low income areas in prison than any other race. These areas are constantly electing democrats who are campaigning on the fact that if they don't get elected their situation will worsen. Cities- Atlanta, Detroit, Seattle, Tacoma, St Louis. States-California, DC, NY, Washington to name but just a few that have high crime problems and are democrat states and have been. I am not saying republican controlled states don't have crime but if you look at all the "police brutality, BLM" stuff it's in democrat states. The fact remains that until we address the "leadership" of these problem areas aka government nothing will change. These leaders are being voted in by the people in their areas and it's these same areas where crime is a rampant problem. An overwhelming percent of ex inmates with voting rights restored will register as democrats vs republicans. They will vote the same people in as before and get the same result.
Are the 'overwhelming majority of violent criminals' Democrats? Ted Cruz said so | PolitiFact
Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats | Washington Examiner
Felons register as Democrat over Republican by 6 to 1 | BizPac Review


The war on drugs was started by Nixon and doubled down on by his successor. Both republicans. It's stupid and may have started this problem. But it was accelerated by B. Clinton.
This is a good article referencing a major cause for this overwhelming prison problem.
The Truth About Who Is Really Responsible for Our Current Police and Prison State | Alternet

Also brining back capital punishment vs Life without parole would be a big deterrent. Why should we waste millions of dollars keeping someone incarcerated than isn't safe to ever let back out on the streets? These are some of the same people that "run" the prison gangs and have nothing to loose being an "enforcer" in those gangs as well.



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Who said anything about changing the style of the government? not me.
If you believe in power of masses start a petition/ballot, start or join the movement to your liking. *****ing on forum will get you nowhere.
Corruption and lobbying is the same issue IMHO.
life sentence is ****ing stupid but better than killing someone innocent.

 

[nevada]

IF YOU USE ALL CAPS IT WOULD MAKE IT SOMEHOW UNQUESTIONABLE???
:doh:

besides you, who typed in call caps?

 

[Victor_inox]

besides you, who typed in call caps?

Guess if my post has no quote in it and directly after yours.

 

[-JD-]

again, given our history, it wouldn't work.

however much you think it would, BASED on the way things are currently, and how they have been in the past, IT WILL NOT WORK.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see what is so special about america that a system that works everywhere else wouldn't work there. Nor am I going to accept the idea based only on your personal assumption, based on your personal views of how society is going. I would encourage you to do some reading about the subject, numerous studies have shown that it would significantly reduce costs long term.

Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[Thefishguy77]

Who said anything about changing the style of the government? not me.

If you believe in power of masses start a petition/ballot, start or join the movement to your liking. *****ing on forum will get you nowhere.

Corruption and lobbying is the same issue IMHO.

life sentence is ****ing stupid but better than killing someone innocent.

Corruption and lobbying are similar but different imho. But as to killing someone innocent that used to happen more frequently but be would only find out about it via DNA. Now it DNA it's extremely infrequent. I can't recall a case in the last 10 years of an innocent. But I also don't pay a lot of attention.

If we have someone with multiple murder convictions i.e. Convicted served time released. Convicted served time released. Convicted served time released. Why not put them on death row on their next conviction. 1 appeal and with in a year for it to begin. But also provide the convicted person with adequate legal access to make their appeal.


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[Victor_inox]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see what is so special about america that a system that works everywhere else wouldn't work there. Nor am I going to accept the idea based only on your personal assumption, based on your personal views of how society is going. I would encourage you to do some reading about the subject, numerous studies have shown that it would significantly reduce costs long term.

Single Payer System Cost? | Physicians for a National Health Program

Funny you mentioned physicians.
At some point of my life I`ve had medicare and many doctors won`t accept it for some reason but not my primary physician.
When i asked him why is that he said that they are idiots as it`s guaranteed money for him, maybe not as quick as private insurance but he will get it.
Same thing with medicare, they will have their money unlike trying to collect from non paying clients. Medicare maybe not covering every imaginable treatment, only once approved but medicare card clearly stated to verify coverage prior to treatment. there is of course some abusing the system but that is different issue.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Funny you mentioned physicians.

At some point of my life I`ve had medicare and many doctors won`t accept it for some reason but not my primary physician.

When i asked him why is that he said that they are idiots as it`s guaranteed money for him, maybe not as quick as private insurance but he will get it.

Same thing with medicare, they will have their money unlike trying to collect from non paying clients. Medicare maybe not covering every imaginable treatment, only once approved but medicare card clearly stated to verify coverage prior to treatment. there is of course some abusing the system but that is different issue.

Maybe some just like to be paid in a timely manner. The government is famous for paying at the 11th hour. But demanding payment immediately.


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[Victor_inox]

Corruption and lobbying are similar but different imho. But as to killing someone innocent that used to happen more frequently but be would only find out about it via DNA. Now it DNA it's extremely infrequent. I can't recall a case in the last 10 years of an innocent. But I also don't pay a lot of attention.

If we have someone with multiple murder convictions i.e. Convicted served time released. Convicted served time released. Convicted served time released. Why not put them on death row on their next conviction. 1 appeal and with in a year for it to begin. But also provide the convicted person with adequate legal access to make their appeal.


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So if it happens rarely that would be OK to kill someone? You for example?
Every civilized country moved away from capital punishment, every single one but US even f ucking Russia.
Also consecutive sentences of 20-30-50 years also retarded, even with half time served that would be like 3 lifetimes.
US has longest sentences yet people want even longer. That wasn`t working so far, why would it work in future?

 

[Victor_inox]

Maybe some just like to be paid in a timely manner. The government is famous for paying at the 11th hour. But demanding payment immediately.


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My f u king heart is bleading..... poor doctors can`t make it to next paycheck:crybaby:.
I monitored how quick my claims were paid, none was longer than 30 days, pretty efficient in my books.

 

[Thefishguy77]

My f u king heart is bleading..... poor doctors can`t make it to next paycheck:crybaby:.

I monitored how quick my claims were paid, none was longer than 30 days, pretty efficient in my books.

I'm not saying it right or wrong. But if they don't want to accept it isn't that their choice? If they want to let other make that money. Isn't that good for the other doctors? Sorry if it's not as convenient for others.


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[Thefishguy77]

So if it happens rarely that would be OK to kill someone? You for example?

Every civilized country moved away from capital punishment, every single one but US even f ucking Russia.

Also consecutive sentences of 20-30-50 years also retarded, even with half time served that would be like 3 lifetimes.

US has longest sentences yet people want even longer. That wasn`t working so far, why would it work in future?

So what do you propose to the 1000's of people nation wide serving life sentences for killing people. How about the people that kill someone in cold blood in the future. Let's hear your ideas if mine are so primitive


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[Victor_inox]

I'm not saying it right or wrong. But if they don't want to accept it isn't that their choice? If they want to let other make that money. Isn't that good for the other doctors? Sorry if it's not as convenient for others.


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That is their choice and I`m fine with it.