Amount wasted on gas vs going hybrid or EV?

[Toyfour14]

I always get asked why I chose a gas guzzler vs a hyrbid suv/sedan or even an EV whch is becoming huge (Volt, Tesla, Leaf) I drive enough to spend about $2k on gas alone every year which is $10k in 5 years.

What do you say when someone asks or how do you justify the cost of gas alone in 5 years?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I've never had anybody ask me that but if they did, I would tell them to get a life LOL.

 

[Toyfour14]

I've never had anybody ask me that but if they did, I would tell them to get a life LOL.

Generally speaking, why did you go the route you did knowing how much gas would cost you over time?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

EVs, while undeniably the future (be it strictly battery powered or Hydrogen powered) are far too young and unreliable to invest in right now. The infrastructure is below subpar and there's still a lot to be done to make EVs anywhere near as viable as an ICE (internal Combustion Engine) vehicle's versatility.

Hybrids are nothing more than a stop-gap measure and have the same issues as EVs (if not more since they use a modified ICE as well.) The environmental cost to produce a Hybrid is often neutral or slightly negative compared to an equivalent ICE. The higher cost of a Hybrid often offsets most of the fuel savings you'll have, maintenance is slightly more expensive in the long term (i.e. you need 2 coolant flushes for two cooling systems, the vehicles tend to have more complicated systems that require specialized technicians to work on depending on what is wrong, ect.) Not to mention most hybrids are woefully underperforming, the electric motor provides great off the line torque; but the vehicles are really geared/programmed for fuel savings, not performance. Additionally (at least in CA) there's only a limited supply of "Carpool Stickers" so not all hybrids can be in the HOV/Carpool lane without an additional passenger.

This is of course not to mention there is no Hybrid SUV, there are TONS of Hybrid CUVs and other unibody vehicles that have little to no business being anywhere but pavement. The 4Runner is a "gas guzzler" yes, but it is also the last of a dying breed of capable, durable, reliable, body on frame SUVs that can take their owner pretty much anywhere they need to go. That's more than can be said about Hybrids and EVs at this point in time.

I've had people comment on the fuel and I simply retort, "hey, it gets better gas mileage than my '93 S10 Blazer did and it puts out fewer emissions that most V8's do while being able to tow your sorry ass when you're stuck. So I'd say it's an all around win win for me." In the end most people who are on the "Hybrid/EV Side" have little to no real understanding about environmentalism, the science behind their, and/or why their vehicles aren't nearly as great as they tout themselves up to be and shove down everyone's throat like a hipster vegan evangelist.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So BW, basically what you are saying is EV's are FUBAR?

 

[Toyfour14]

EVs, while undeniably the future (be it strictly battery powered or Hydrogen powered) are far too young and unreliable to invest in right now. The infrastructure is below subpar and there's still a lot to be done to make EVs anywhere near as viable as an ICE (internal Combustion Engine) vehicle's versatility.

Hybrids are nothing more than a stop-gap measure and have the same issues as EVs (if not more since they use a modified ICE as well.) The environmental cost to produce a Hybrid is often neutral or slightly negative compared to an equivalent ICE. The higher cost of a Hybrid often offsets most of the fuel savings you'll have, maintenance is slightly more expensive in the long term (i.e. you need 2 coolant flushes for two cooling systems, the vehicles tend to have more complicated systems that require specialized technicians to work on depending on what is wrong, ect.) Not to mention most hybrids are woefully underperforming, the electric motor provides great off the line torque; but the vehicles are really geared/programmed for fuel savings, not performance. Additionally (at least in CA) there's only a limited supply of "Carpool Stickers" so not all hybrids can be in the HOV/Carpool lane without an additional passenger.

This is of course not to mention there is no Hybrid SUV, there are TONS of Hybrid CUVs and other unibody vehicles that have little to no business being anywhere but pavement. The 4Runner is a "gas guzzler" yes, but it is also the last of a dying breed of capable, durable, reliable, body on frame SUVs that can take their owner pretty much anywhere they need to go. That's more than can be said about Hybrids and EVs at this point in time.

One example is a buddy of mine bought a hybrid vehicle which gets 600 miles to a gallon. He spends $2,500 in 5 years compared to my $10k. I have to sit back and think what justifies that $7,500 gap? Power, reliability, etc...? That $7,500 can be used for savings towards another vehicle for example vs spending it on gas.

For example my son is getting ready to drive in a few years. I can use that $7,500 for money put towards his vehicle plus the $$$ he saves up. As bad as it sounds a Prius can be had for $22k currently since gas is so low not that I would buy one, but just giving an example.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So BW, basically what you are saying is EV's are FUBAR?

EVs need time to grow and expand as a technology and industry; Tesla is leading the bleeding edge and doing a good job. But they are chump change in the grand scheme of things when you look at how many vehicles are pushed/sold every day.

There's also the matter that a 1st world country like the US that suffers regular black/brownouts has a woefully under-maintained and inefficient electrical grid that can barely support what we have now let alone 30% of the vehicle population converting to EVs.

They'll have their time, but I'd say hold off for another 5, maybe 10 years until the infrastructure is better, because right now unless you have the cash to lease a Tesla to cruise around Town and drive your other car for long trips, it's not worth the money.

One example is a buddy of mine bought a hybrid vehicle which gets 600 miles to a gallon. He spends $2,500 in 5 years compared to my $10k. I have to sit back and think what justifies that $7,500 gap? Power, reliability, etc...? That $7,500 can be used for savings towards another vehicle for example vs spending it on gas.

Why not just buy a good car to begin with? Plenty of high mpg vehicles like the Corolla, Camry, VW Diesels, ect. that are far less complicated and ridiculous when compared to a Hybrid. If you drive like a half blind grandmother with alzheimer's who can't find the gas pedal; sure you'll rake in tons of gas savings. But then you'll probably be murdered by the rest of the driver's on the road and you'll HATE the fact that you HAVE to drive like a Prius Driver to get any real savings compared to any of the above "efficient" ICE vehicles mentioned.

I mean look, if you're not using the 4Runner off-road and you're this concerned about fuel mileage; you're in the wrong vehicle. Buy a CUV or sedan that will meet your needs (perhaps a Sienna? they are great cargo vehicles for their mileage and size,) these things don't sip gas; but it's because they have far more capability and ruggedness than anything else Toyota sells south of the Tacoma/Tundra/Sequoia/LandCruiser line.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

One example is a buddy of mine bought a hybrid vehicle which gets 600 miles to a gallon. He spends $2,500 in 5 years compared to my $10k. I have to sit back and think what justifies that $7,500 gap? Power, reliability, etc...? That $7,500 can be used for savings towards another vehicle for example vs spending it on gas.

For example my son is getting ready to drive in a few years. I can use that $7,500 for money put towards his vehicle plus the $$$ he saves up. As bad as it sounds a Prius can be had for $22k currently since gas is so low not that I would buy one, but just giving an example.

Dude, if you are going to buy a Prius just ask if they will throw in a complimentary castration at the same time. LOL

 

[Toyfour14]

EVs need time to grow and expand as a technology and industry; Tesla is leading the bleeding edge and doing a good job. But they are chump change in the grand scheme of things when you look at how many vehicles are pushed/sold every day.

There's also the matter that a 1st world country like the US that suffers regular black/brownouts has a woefully under-maintained and inefficient electrical grid that can barely support what we have now let alone 30% of the vehicle population converting to EVs.

They'll have their time, but I'd say hold off for another 5, maybe 10 years until the infrastructure is better, because right now unless you have the cash to lease a Tesla to cruise around Town and drive your other car for long trips, it's not worth the money.



Why not just buy a good car to begin with? Plenty of high mpg vehicles like the Corolla, Camry, VW Diesels, ect. that are far less complicated and ridiculous when compared to a Hybrid.

The Tesla Model 3 and Chevy Volt are going to be the next biggest things out there for EV's. Problem is where can you charge the Volt when travelling and will Tesla have enough charging stations vs waiting in line? I hate to say it but for someone who can hack it a Prius is a steal right now since nobody is buying them and 600 miles on a full tank is huge. Problem is how would you get out of your driveway when it's snowing 8-10 inches!

 

[Jetboy]

I have more than 1 car. So... I don't have to drive my 4runner if I don't want to. My other cars happen to be an RX350 that incidentally gets exactly the same mpg - yet no one would likely ever ask about it, and an FJ40 that gets maybe 8mpg? No one asks about that either.

My actual response would be that I bought a house close to my work so I can drive whatever the hell I want and not worry about gas mileage. My commute is about 10 minutes by car and 20 by bicycle. I ride to work most days. So I actually put very few miles on my 4runner that aren't road trips or hauling my boat etc. I would likely respond - how do you justify living so far from your work that you need to spend an hour in your car every day? Doesn't that suck? You should make better choices in housing so you don't have to worry about your mileage.

If I had a commute - I'd buy a prius as a 4th car. I like them. I'm not sure why there's so much hate for them. I'd be happy to commute in a Prius if I had some reason I had to live 20 miles from my work. OTOH, I'd much rather put the money toward a higher house payment to have a nicer house closer to work.

 

[Toyfour14]

EVs need time to grow and expand as a technology and industry; Tesla is leading the bleeding edge and doing a good job. But they are chump change in the grand scheme of things when you look at how many vehicles are pushed/sold every day.

There's also the matter that a 1st world country like the US that suffers regular black/brownouts has a woefully under-maintained and inefficient electrical grid that can barely support what we have now let alone 30% of the vehicle population converting to EVs.

They'll have their time, but I'd say hold off for another 5, maybe 10 years until the infrastructure is better, because right now unless you have the cash to lease a Tesla to cruise around Town and drive your other car for long trips, it's not worth the money.



Why not just buy a good car to begin with? Plenty of high mpg vehicles like the Corolla, Camry, VW Diesels, ect. that are far less complicated and ridiculous when compared to a Hybrid. If you drive like a half blind grandmother with alzheimer's who can't find the gas pedal; sure you'll rake in tons of gas savings. But then you'll probably be murdered by the rest of the driver's on the road and you'll HATE the fact that you HAVE to drive like a Prius Driver to get any real savings compared to any of the above "efficient" ICE vehicles mentioned.

I mean look, if you're not using the 4Runner off-road and you're this concerned about fuel mileage; you're in the wrong vehicle. Buy a CUV or sedan that will meet your needs (perhaps a Sienna? they are great cargo vehicles for their mileage and size,) these things don't sip gas; but it's because they have far more capability and ruggedness than anything else Toyota sells south of the Tacoma/Tundra/Sequoia/LandCruiser line.

I bought mine for the safety, reliability and power and yes I do not offroad, but many don't from what I've seen on here. Mpg's are the biggest downside over anything over time.

 

[Toyfour14]

I have more than 1 car. So... I don't have to drive my 4runner if I don't want to. My other cars happen to be an RX350 that incidentally gets exactly the same mpg - yet no one would likely ever ask about it, and an FJ40 that gets maybe 8mpg? No one asks about that either.

My actual response would be that I bought a house close to my work so I can drive whatever the hell I want and not worry about gas mileage. My commute is about 10 minutes by car and 20 by bicycle. I ride to work most days. So I actually put very few miles on my 4runner that aren't road trips or hauling my boat etc. I would likely respond - how do you justify living so far from your work that you need to spend an hour in your car every day? Doesn't that suck? You should make better choices in housing so you don't have to worry about your mileage.

Cool! I work 7 minutes away myself. I figure that on the bad snow days I am covered very well. On the nice warm days I could take a bike, but like the 4Runner too much and still drive it. The biggest reason I like it is it that it is so high up so you can see pretty much everything in front of you.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I don't know about you're guy's area but in SF they are literally TEARING into Prius's and other hybrids and just ripping the HV Batteries out to sell on Craigslist or whatever. BIG issue right now in the Bay Area, I imagine as more Hybrids and EV's get popular they'll figure out easier ways to get those batteries too.

Like I said, infrastructure is an issue; not just charging stations... but getting the juice to ALL those charging stations reliably 24/7 without taking out the municipal grid. Most people don't realize that the US has a decent amount of energy generation, our problem really lies in horrible transmission/management of that energy.

An AWD Highlander with good snow tires should be able to handle some decent snow, but then again... it might not?

 

[Jeremy556]

Let me know when there's a hybrid that can get me here

 

[Toyfour14]

I don't know about you're guy's area but in SF they are literally TEARING into Prius's and other hybrids and just ripping the HV Batteries out to sell on Craigslist or whatever. BIG issue right now in the Bay Area, I imagine as more Hybrids and EV's get popular they'll figure out easier ways to get those batteries too.

Like I said, infrastructure is an issue; not just charging stations... but getting the juice to ALL those charging stations reliably 24/7 without taking out the municipal grid. Most people don't realize that the US has a decent amount of energy generation, our problem really lies in horrible transmission/management of that energy.

An AWD Highlander with good snow tires should be able to handle some decent snow, but then again... it might not?

The thing that people won't know is that when the hybrid's die off slowly (which they are because gas is so low) the Prius will be worthless offsetting any and all gas savings.

 

[jrandom]

Let me know when there's a hybrid that can get me here

Sure... airlift it

 

[Jhalko]

In Colorado no one asks such a silly question, even the Prius owners have SUVs in their garage for all the fun things we get to do here.

:flamewar:

 

[1engineer]

In Colorado no one asks such a silly question, even the Prius owners have SUVs in their garage for all the fun things we get to do here.

:flamewar:

I know right? Among my friends I probably have one of the smaller, lighter vehicles with the 4runner.

 

[rydr1]

The thing that people won't know is that when the hybrid's die off slowly (which they are because gas is so low) the Prius will be worthless offsetting any and all gas savings.

Where are you at? In California we are back up to $4.49.

Picked up a VW e-golf and even though fuel savings are great, you have the trade off of charging the vehicle often and low range. I'll charge the e-golf 4 times before I have to fuel up the 4runner.

I like my EV and what it is, but there is a tradeoff. The 4runner will get us places the EV can't. Even a Tesla, which in my opinion is a beautiful car, can't be loaded like the 4runner or take us places like the 4runner.

Like 1E mentioned before in another thread about performance, there is a vehicle for every job which requires compromise.

 

[Hellamatic]

I always get asked why I chose a gas guzzler vs a hyrbid suv/sedan or even an EV whch is becoming huge (Volt, Tesla, Leaf) I drive enough to spend about $2k on gas alone every year which is $10k in 5 years.

What do you say when someone asks or how do you justify the cost of gas alone in 5 years?

At only $2k per year for gas, I don't think an EV/hybrid is worth the premium price tag, although you'd really have to crunch numbers. I'm spending about $1500-2000 per MONTH on fuel - however, nobody makes a 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive crew cab longbox EV/hybrid.

My parents had a Highlander hybrid for a few years, but ended up trading it in because it was horrible in the snow; it wasn't possible to defeat the traction control, so it would just sit in moderately deep snow and go nowhere.