Amount wasted on gas vs going hybrid or EV?

[sooperedd]

EVs, while undeniably the future (be it strictly battery powered or Hydrogen powered) are far too young and unreliable to invest in right now. The infrastructure is below subpar and there's still a lot to be done to make EVs anywhere near as viable as an ICE (internal Combustion Engine) vehicle's versatility.

Hybrids are nothing more than a stop-gap measure and have the same issues as EVs (if not more since they use a modified ICE as well.) The environmental cost to produce a Hybrid is often neutral or slightly negative compared to an equivalent ICE. The higher cost of a Hybrid often offsets most of the fuel savings you'll have, maintenance is slightly more expensive in the long term (i.e. you need 2 coolant flushes for two cooling systems, the vehicles tend to have more complicated systems that require specialized technicians to work on depending on what is wrong, ect.) Not to mention most hybrids are woefully underperforming, the electric motor provides great off the line torque; but the vehicles are really geared/programmed for fuel savings, not performance. Additionally (at least in CA) there's only a limited supply of "Carpool Stickers" so not all hybrids can be in the HOV/Carpool lane without an additional passenger.

This is of course not to mention there is no Hybrid SUV, there are TONS of Hybrid CUVs and other unibody vehicles that have little to no business being anywhere but pavement. The 4Runner is a "gas guzzler" yes, but it is also the last of a dying breed of capable, durable, reliable, body on frame SUVs that can take their owner pretty much anywhere they need to go. That's more than can be said about Hybrids and EVs at this point in time.

I've had people comment on the fuel and I simply retort, "hey, it gets better gas mileage than my '93 S10 Blazer did and it puts out fewer emissions that most V8's do while being able to tow your sorry ass when you're stuck. So I'd say it's an all around win win for me." In the end most people who are on the "Hybrid/EV Side" have little to no real understanding about environmentalism, the science behind their, and/or why their vehicles aren't nearly as great as they tout themselves up to be and shove down everyone's throat like a hipster vegan evangelist.

Our Prius is EXCEPTIONALLY reliable and durable. The maintenance costs are less because 10,000 OCI, brakes will go over 100,000 miles, completely beltless engine, no transmission. It hasn't been back to dealer for anything.
Didn't even think about trading it in or selling prior to getting my 4Runner.

 

[sooperedd]

in colorado no one asks such a silly question, even the prius owners have suvs in their garage for all the fun things we get to do here.

:flamewar:

me !!

 

[Toyfour14]

Our Prius is EXCEPTIONALLY reliable and durable. The maintenance costs are less because 10,000 OCI, brakes will go over 100,000 miles, completely beltless engine, no transmission. It hasn't been back to dealer for anything.
Didn't even think about trading it in or selling prior to getting my 4Runner.

How do use your Prius, how do use your 4Runner? Do you have snow tires on the Prius?

 

[jicko]

One example is a buddy of mine bought a hybrid vehicle which gets 600 miles to a gallon. He spends $2,500 in 5 years compared to my $10k. I have to sit back and think what justifies that $7,500 gap? Power, reliability, etc...? That $7,500 can be used for savings towards another vehicle for example vs spending it on gas.

For example my son is getting ready to drive in a few years. I can use that $7,500 for money put towards his vehicle plus the $$$ he saves up. As bad as it sounds a Prius can be had for $22k currently since gas is so low not that I would buy one, but just giving an example.

Forget about trying to compare your buddy's pirus to your 4Runner..... but let's compare something like Highlander vs Hybrid Highlander.... is there still $7500 savings? Even if there is.... I think the same exact model of car has a $8000-10000 premium when you buy them new..... hence, you need 5 or 6 years of ownership just to break even in gas.

 

[4RunnerAU]

Aren't batteries for EVs really expensive and require replacement every so many years?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Our Prius is EXCEPTIONALLY reliable and durable. The maintenance costs are less because 10,000 OCI, brakes will go over 100,000 miles, completely beltless engine, no transmission. It hasn't been back to dealer for anything.
Didn't even think about trading it in or selling prior to getting my 4Runner.

Not saying they can't be reliable, just that there's a lot going against them. The second gen Prius had a multitude of issues that resulted in tons of warranty enhancements, recalls, and TSBs. The third gens are starting to rack up some similar issues. Not to mention ALL Prius (and Toyota Atkinson's Cycle engines really...) just puke oil into their intakes to burn up. I've had a friend who runs a shop in Seattle and sees Taxi Driver Prius with clogged cats, coolant EGR failures, and so on in 200~300k miles (granted those guys barely do oil changes...) and we're talking 3rd gens here. The hybrid batteries will and do degrade over time, typically at about 7~10yrs they begin to start losing their performance capability (we're seeing more and more Hybrids across the board cropping up with battery and inverter issues.)

Again, not that they're outright garbage or anything, but you get what you pay for; and what you pay for is a highly complicated piece of gadgetry that will and does fail later down the road and costs quite a bit to fix. I just don't see the justification for the Prius line and/or any Hybrid for most areas, they often end up being environmentally and economically neutral or negative and require almost a life style change to get anywhere near the mileage advertised unless you're doing regular highway driving on a daily basis. There's plenty of more affordable, equally as efficient, and nicer vehicles for the price of a Prius or similar Hybrid.

 

[Toyfour14]

Forget about trying to compare your buddy's pirus to your 4Runner..... but let's compare something like Highlander vs Hybrid Highlander.... is there still $7500 savings? Even if there is.... I think the same exact model of car has a $8000-10000 premium when you buy them new..... hence, you need 5 or 6 years of ownership just to break even in gas.

I know it's not a fair example, but none the less it's like comparing night and day and left and right. Overall I'm just discussing the gas savings, size, engine, reliability, snow performance and why someone would need to go all out with a 4Runner and spend that extra $10k of gas in 5 years vs $2500 in something like a Prius for example. When I tell someone why I bought my 4Runner I tell them I like to keep my family safe and I love the power plus it's very reliable. I don't off-road, but there's nothing quite like the 4Runner.

 

[Toyfour14]

Aren't batteries for EVs really expensive and require replacement every so many years?

Tesla and Prius have a 10 year warranty on theirs I believe.

 

[Toyfour14]

Not saying they can't be reliable, just that there's a lot going against them. The second gen Prius had a multitude of issues that resulted in tons of warranty enhancements, recalls, and TSBs. The third gens are starting to rack up some similar issues. Not to mention ALL Prius (and Toyota Atkinson's Cycle engines really...) just puke oil into their intakes to burn up. I've had a friend who runs a shop in Seattle and sees Taxi Driver Prius with clogged cats, coolant EGR failures, and so on in 200~300k miles (granted those guys barely do oil changes...) and we're talking 3rd gens here. The hybrid batteries will and do degrade over time, typically at about 7~10yrs they begin to start losing their performance capability (we're seeing more and more Hybrids across the board cropping up with battery and inverter issues.)

Again, not that they're outright garbage or anything, but you get what you pay for; and what you pay for is a highly complicated piece of gadgetry that will and does fail later down the road and costs quite a bit to fix. I just don't see the justification for the Prius line and/or any Hybrid for most areas, they often end up being environmentally and economically neutral or negative and require almost a life style change to get anywhere near the mileage advertised unless you're doing regular highway driving on a daily basis. There's plenty of more affordable, equally as efficient, and nicer vehicles for the price of a Prius or similar Hybrid.

Well said, but the average person will say $10k of gas in 5 years?$@!-
As I'm passing hem by in the snow I'll ask them that same question.

 

[diverscale]

Let me know when there's a EV that can get me here

or here

Or do a 10 000 miles route miles across the USA

 

[jicko]

I know it's not a fair example, but none the less it's like comparing night and day and left and right. Overall I'm just discussing the gas savings, size, engine, reliability, snow performance and why someone would need to go all out with a 4Runner and spend that extra $10k of gas in 5 years vs $2500 in something like a Prius for example. When I tell someone why I bought my 4Runner I tell them I like to keep my family safe and I love the power plus it's very reliable. I don't off-road, but there's nothing quite like the 4Runner.

Most of the time, people buy a car they like, they enjoy and they can afford....

Why buy a $100K Porsche when a $10K KIA can also get you from point A to point B, just not in style.... :drummer:

 

[diverscale]

Most of the time, people buy a car they like, they enjoy and they can afford....

Why buy a $100K Porsche when a $10K KIA can also get you from point A to point B, just not in style.... :drummer:

Because you only live once, and if cars/a porsche is one of your main passion, why not? You won't bring that 100k$ to hell anyway.

Most people here didn't NEED a 4runner by the way. Including me.

 

[Jetboy]

Not saying they can't be reliable, just that there's a lot going against them. The second gen Prius had a multitude of issues that resulted in tons of warranty enhancements, recalls, and TSBs. The third gens are starting to rack up some similar issues. Not to mention ALL Prius (and Toyota Atkinson's Cycle engines really...) just puke oil into their intakes to burn up. I've had a friend who runs a shop in Seattle and sees Taxi Driver Prius with clogged cats, coolant EGR failures, and so on in 200~300k miles (granted those guys barely do oil changes...) and we're talking 3rd gens here. The hybrid batteries will and do degrade over time, typically at about 7~10yrs they begin to start losing their performance capability (we're seeing more and more Hybrids across the board cropping up with battery and inverter issues.)

Again, not that they're outright garbage or anything, but you get what you pay for; and what you pay for is a highly complicated piece of gadgetry that will and does fail later down the road and costs quite a bit to fix. I just don't see the justification for the Prius line and/or any Hybrid for most areas, they often end up being environmentally and economically neutral or negative and require almost a life style change to get anywhere near the mileage advertised unless you're doing regular highway driving on a daily basis. There's plenty of more affordable, equally as efficient, and nicer vehicles for the price of a Prius or similar Hybrid.

I think you need to try a test drive. The prius is just like a normal car to drive, and gets 50mpg driven the same way you'd drive a Camry. They really excel if you live in a city. Not as much on the highway. And if you are concerned about emissions, the prius is a tiny fraction of emissions per mile of a VW TDI. It's much cleaner.

Plus with the resale value and $20k ish price, they're about as cheap as you can get per mile if you want the cheapest miles.

 

[wfo9]

Why not just drive a moped.... Cheap, amazing MPG...


I would probably just say, get lost :hippie:

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I think you need to try a test drive. The prius is just like a normal car to drive, and gets 50mpg driven the same way you'd drive a Camry. They really excel if you live in a city. Not as much on the highway. And if you are concerned about emissions, the prius is a tiny fraction of emissions per mile of a VW TDI. It's much cleaner.

Plus with the resale value and $20k ish price, they're about as cheap as you can get per mile if you want the cheapest miles.

I test drive them daily against all our other cars and work on them for a living (I also did/do used car inspections so I actually get to run the vehicles on my little 8mile long test drive up the hills behind the dealership to check for transmission issues, brakes, steering, ect. so I get a good idea how they handle and drive against other brands as well,) get to see how these vehicles really are (emissions can be measure multiple ways; I have yet to see a Prius be smogged with a gas analyzer, the environmental cost I see more regularly expressed is the over all carbon cost to produce the vehicle vs. a comparable ICE.) They're peppy off the line, but honestly I have to pretty much floor it all the time to get good response out of them even in "Power Mode" (which I would be using all the time, and the mpg drops FAST the way I drive a Prius compared to a normal Camry; so fuel economy ends up being a wash in that department.) They rattle and squeak when driven mildly (then again most cars these days do, but hybrids typically are quieter and you hear it more.) I never found the aesthetics of the Prius, both interior and exterior to be appealing. There's some nice things going for them like the Smart Key (I'm slowly warming up to the idea of smart keys myself...) and slightly nicer radio; though why Toyota insists on making HVAC a combination of Touch Screen Input and HVAC Control Input is beyond me (really manufacturers need to pick one or the other, it's too much effort to set your HVAC with this hybrid set-up they've been pushing.) They make that annoying noise to warn pedestrians that has been the butt of thousands of jokes. The Camry Hybrids (aka the Jumbo Corolla) are a bit nicer, but still not my cup of tea; there's the Avalon Hybrid which is very nice but has a paltry 2.5L I4 (seriously Toyota? You couldn't be bothered to use the 3.5L Hybrid drivetrain in your flagship sedan?) As for the Highlanders... I hate the new Highlanders, they look like a Chrysler Pacifica and the interiors are a little weird feeling in ergonomics.

I just don't see any real appeal to the Prius to be honest; I'd probably spring for a Scion FR-S, Corolla, or Matrix among our smaller cars. I'd maybe rock a Sienna as they are probably the only minivan I'd ever consider appealing and nicely built (not to mention they come in AWD and can be decked out rather nicely for road trips.) Though I have been eyeing the new Tacomas, though I have no need for one at the moment or a larger BoF SUV/Truck (again have no use for either and am happy with the 4Runner.) Though I have been eyeing some off those lovely Subaru WRXs, Kia makes a great vehicle with lots of value and economy with just the right amount of pep in their step. Mercedes, while a bit on the more luxurious side of my tastes does make that beautiful C63 AMG; Lexus has their IS series and the new RC that piques my interest; though both are a bit more luxury than I'd want anyways. Basically, I want a car that gets decent mileage and performs well; the Prius does not fit in that category and provides no excitement to me as a Driver. If anything it is a sad little rattly, creaky, horribly disconnected feeling vehicle that goes "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmm" when driven; though at least you can chirp the tires off the line? If I am going to buy a car it's going to be a vehicle that's responsive, fun, provides a wonderful driving experience, is reliable, and economical (well ideally... I mean I did mention the C63 AMG, so I can't say mpg is really that big a concern to me...) bottom line, I want a vehicle I can enjoy driving in that happens to get decent mpg; not a vehicle who's only saving grace is that I don't need as much gas and that's it.

Post Note-
Okay there's one hybrid I would maybe consider because it just looks so damn sexy inside and out; the Lexus CT series are a beautiful hybrid that ALMOST makes me reconsider buying one...

 

[Toyfour14]

I test drive them daily against all our other cars and work on them for a living (I also did/do used car inspections so I actually get to run the vehicles on my little 8mile long test drive up the hills behind the dealership to check for transmission issues, brakes, steering, ect. so I get a good idea how they handle and drive against other brands as well,) get to see how these vehicles really are (emissions can be measure multiple ways; I have yet to see a Prius be smogged with a gas analyzer, the environmental cost I see more regularly expressed is the over all carbon cost to produce the vehicle vs. a comparable ICE.) They're peppy off the line, but honestly I have to pretty much floor it all the time to get good response out of them even in "Power Mode" (which I would be using all the time, and the mpg drops FAST the way I drive a Prius compared to a normal Camry; so fuel economy ends up being a wash in that department.) They rattle and squeak when driven mildly (then again most cars these days do, but hybrids typically are quieter and you hear it more.) I never found the aesthetics of the Prius, both interior and exterior to be appealing. There's some nice things going for them like the Smart Key (I'm slowly warming up to the idea of smart keys myself...) and slightly nicer radio; though why Toyota insists on making HVAC a combination of Touch Screen Input and HVAC Control Input is beyond me (really manufacturers need to pick one or the other, it's too much effort to set your HVAC with this hybrid set-up they've been pushing.) They make that annoying noise to warn pedestrians that has been the butt of thousands of jokes. The Camry Hybrids (aka the Jumbo Corolla) are a bit nicer, but still not my cup of tea; there's the Avalon Hybrid which is very nice but has a paltry 2.5L I4 (seriously Toyota? You couldn't be bothered to use the 3.5L Hybrid drivetrain in your flagship sedan?) As for the Highlanders... I hate the new Highlanders, they look like a Chrysler Pacifica and the interiors are a little weird feeling in ergonomics.

I just don't see any real appeal to the Prius to be honest; I'd probably spring for a Scion FR-S, Corolla, or Matrix among our smaller cars. I'd maybe rock a Sienna as they are probably the only minivan I'd ever consider appealing and nicely built (not to mention they come in AWD and can be decked out rather nicely for road trips.) Though I have been eyeing the new Tacomas, though I have no need for one at the moment or a larger BoF SUV/Truck (again have no use for either and am happy with the 4Runner.) Though I have been eyeing some off those lovely Subaru WRXs, Kia makes a great vehicle with lots of value and economy with just the right amount of pep in their step. Mercedes, while a bit on the more luxurious side of my tastes does make that beautiful C63 AMG; Lexus has their IS series and the new RC that piques my interest; though both are a bit more luxury than I'd want anyways. Basically, I want a car that gets decent mileage and performs well; the Prius does not fit in that category and provides no excitement to me as a Driver. If anything it is a sad little rattly, creaky, horribly disconnected feeling vehicle that goes "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmm" when driven; though at least you can chirp the tires off the line? If I am going to buy a car it's going to be a vehicle that's responsive, fun, provides a wonderful driving experience, is reliable, and economical (well ideally... I mean I did mention the C63 AMG, so I can't say mpg is really that big a concern to me...) bottom line, I want a vehicle I can enjoy driving in that happens to get decent mpg; not a vehicle who's only saving grace is that I don't need as much gas and that's it.

Post Note-
Okay there's one hybrid I would maybe consider because it just looks so damn sexy inside and out; the Lexus CT series are a beautiful hybrid that ALMOST makes me reconsider buying one...

Well said. I commend Toyota on making so many hybrids, but unlike 4Runner they have not been around long enough to say they will last in this market. There is just too much competition now and with low gas prices hybrids and Prius's can be sold for next to nothing at the moment. What appeals to me? I'm not a highway driver and I don't off-road so I love the mpg and the technology. What doesn't appeal to me. When it starts snowing heavily hybrids will suck and as far as safety goes the 4Runner is a tank, the Prius is like a cardboard box.

 

[sooperedd]

How do use your Prius, how do use your 4Runner? Do you have snow tires on the Prius?

Haven't had the 4Runner long to say how I use it; although I'm taking it fishing tomorrow. I have good LRR tires on the Prius and it is great on light snow and ice. I am actually surprised at how good it is on ice. I think it's because it is a little heavy for it's size and has skinny tires.

 

[Hellamatic]

Let me know when there's a hybrid that can get me here

or here

Or do a 10 000 miles route miles across the USA

Give me a Prius and I'll get it there..... It may not come back factory fresh, but I'll make it happen....

 

[sooperedd]

Not saying they can't be reliable, just that there's a lot going against them. The second gen Prius had a multitude of issues that resulted in tons of warranty enhancements, recalls, and TSBs. The third gens are starting to rack up some similar issues. Not to mention ALL Prius (and Toyota Atkinson's Cycle engines really...) just puke oil into their intakes to burn up. I've had a friend who runs a shop in Seattle and sees Taxi Driver Prius with clogged cats, coolant EGR failures, and so on in 200~300k miles (granted those guys barely do oil changes...) and we're talking 3rd gens here. The hybrid batteries will and do degrade over time, typically at about 7~10yrs they begin to start losing their performance capability (we're seeing more and more Hybrids across the board cropping up with battery and inverter issues.)

Again, not that they're outright garbage or anything, but you get what you pay for; and what you pay for is a highly complicated piece of gadgetry that will and does fail later down the road and costs quite a bit to fix. I just don't see the justification for the Prius line and/or any Hybrid for most areas, they often end up being environmentally and economically neutral or negative and require almost a life style change to get anywhere near the mileage advertised unless you're doing regular highway driving on a daily basis. There's plenty of more affordable, equally as efficient, and nicer vehicles for the price of a Prius or similar Hybrid.

The wife wanted one (long commute, 80 miles a day at the time) and after learning how it works and the gas savings it kind of grew on me. The best MPGs are Spring and Fall and I can get 55-58 MPG.

But....I like my 4Runner a whole lot more despite the lower MPG.

 

[Honu*]

always asked ?
find new friends


google up what it takes to make hybrid batteres and see how bad it is and what it does !!!!
and where do you think that energy comes from to charge these vehicles
and how much is used in the mining and production and all the chemicals used etc...
sure no recycle centers exist for the batteries today but OH they will have them up ! YEAH cause it is something like 5x the money to recycle the material back out sure they will and then what will that do to cost !
again incentives to build these are insane huge it will only get worse

but sadly IDIOTS eat the crap they are fed and then say I love it


get a EV feel better about yourself just don't really look into the production side then tell the gas guy how bad he is hahahahahaha