LandCruiser
New member
They are making an Escape based Baby Bronco which is supposed to be like the Jeep Renegade/Compass.
Anyone care about the new Bronco?
- Thread starter LandCruiser
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They are making an Escape based Baby Bronco which is supposed to be like the Jeep Renegade/Compass.
Jetboy
New member
I might be. If the rumors are true that it'll come with 35's and 37's are a bolt on swap and it has the rumored 7 speed MT. Unless Toyota does something - fawking anything at all to update its lineup - I might jump ship. It's exactly what the FJ cruiser could have been - should have been. I'm mostly just bored with my 4Runner. Nothing wrong with it - just had it for coming up on 6 years and itching for something new.
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LandCruiser
New member
SWB 2-door is a must for me, the long Jeeps look ridiculous with their short overhangs.
I heard that it was going to have SFA, but if it's based on the ranger it has to have IFS, and some of the pictures seem to suggest that.
I am dissapoint over lack of a V8.
Jetboy
New member
I'd need the 4 door. I already have a FJ40 - so having another 2 door doesn't make much sense for me. And it's just too small for more than short trips.
It's IFS for sure. Lots of pics of the early production units out there i've looked at. Kinda bummed about it in some ways, but I can live with it if it's done right. I'm betting it'll get almost exactly what's under the Ranger Raptor. Size wise - it looks closer to a full size SUV. These are 35" tires:
Function of the top is going to be critical for me. My FJ40 is a huge PITA to put on an off the top anywhere buy my parent's shop (has a gantry crane that makes it a breeze). Otherwise it's really fawking heavy, awkward to carry, and hard to store. If you've ever removed and FJ40 top - it has dowel pins that are about 8" long, so you have to lift really high to clear the pins. It's just not a good design for easy on/off.
The JK's tops were great to go on/off, but still suck at wind noise and road noise. If it's similar to the JK - I'm still not interested. If it's a great modern hard top that has low wind noise when on, insulates well, and is easy for a single person to take on and off - that'll be a huge plus for me.
What I don't like is the whole Ford part. Wouldn't be my first Ford. Last one wasn't very good... at anything, especially reliability. The turbo engines are only engineered to have a 175k mile lifespan. That scares me. The Motortrend retest of the Raptor they had after a year that lost significant power output in the first 15k miles is an example of what makes me really uncomfortable about buying a Ford anything. The repeat failures of the Raptor in desert racing tell me that even the Raptor isn't really up to the task of reliable long range off road abuse. And it's failed in stock class in almost every way - turbos, transmissions, frames, suspension. Even the class 6 race bronco couldn't finish the Baja 1000.
If the Bronco body sat on a Toyota chassis with just normal modern Toyota parts bin drivetrain - the turbo v6 and 8AT with LC200 axles, I'd be all about it. A modernized FJ45 wagon. But we can't get anything close to that. So that leaves us with either a compromise on the fun side or on the reliability side.
LandCruiser
New member
That's my gripe. Why bring back the Bronco, style it so it looks like a Wrangler, and make it IFS?I'd need the 4 door. I already have a FJ40 - so having another 2 door doesn't make much sense for me. And it's just too small for more than short trips.
It's IFS for sure. Lots of pics of the early production units out there i've looked at. Kinda bummed about it in some ways, but I can live with it if it's done right. I'm betting it'll get almost exactly what's under the Ranger Raptor. Size wise - it looks closer to a full size SUV. These are 35" tires:
Function of the top is going to be critical for me. My FJ40 is a huge PITA to put on an off the top anywhere buy my parent's shop (has a gantry crane that makes it a breeze). Otherwise it's really fawking heavy, awkward to carry, and hard to store. If you've ever removed and FJ40 top - it has dowel pins that are about 8" long, so you have to lift really high to clear the pins. It's just not a good design for easy on/off.
The JK's tops were great to go on/off, but still suck at wind noise and road noise. If it's similar to the JK - I'm still not interested. If it's a great modern hard top that has low wind noise when on, insulates well, and is easy for a single person to take on and off - that'll be a huge plus for me.
What I don't like is the whole Ford part. Wouldn't be my first Ford. Last one wasn't very good... at anything, especially reliability. The turbo engines are only engineered to have a 175k mile lifespan. That scares me. The Motortrend retest of the Raptor they had after a year that lost significant power output in the first 15k miles is an example of what makes me really uncomfortable about buying a Ford anything. The repeat failures of the Raptor in desert racing tell me that even the Raptor isn't really up to the task of reliable long range off road abuse. And it's failed in stock class in almost every way - turbos, transmissions, frames, suspension. Even the class 6 race bronco couldn't finish the Baja 1000.
If the Bronco body sat on a Toyota chassis with just normal modern Toyota parts bin drivetrain - the turbo v6 and 8AT with LC200 axles, I'd be all about it. A modernized FJ45 wagon. But we can't get anything close to that. So that leaves us with either a compromise on the fun side or on the reliability side.
Ford has lots of small V8s, so what's the problem with stuffing one in there? I've never been a fan of turbocharging an off road vehicle that isn't a diesel.
I have friends with the new V6 Raptor and one is *****ing that the power is way down after a year or so, dealer told him that's normal with a Turbo (my Macan is 2 years old with no power loss, so WTF?)
Removing a plastic hard top has been a PITA for every vehicle since they came out, I'm guessing I'd get a vinyl convertible top in place of the hard plastic since I don't live someplace cold, plus everyone with a Wrangler in CO told me that they leaked and were drafty when it got into the single digits.
My 4runner is at the end of its life, but I brought it back with a new suspension and CV axles for another 50-75k miles hopefully. I wonder what Toyota has in store for their BOF trucks, the 4Runner and LC, and didn't really seem that thrilled about FCAs prospects when they had the frame welds coming apart on the new Wranglers.
I guess it's a waiting game, but I had higher hopes for the Bronc than this.
Jernik
New member
My guess, and that's all this is, would be that their market research showed people love the idea and image of a hard-core offroad machine, but actually want and need a comfortable family hauler.
The small % who actually use and abuse their trucks off road are a niche. The soccer moms/dads who want to look rugged and project an image when driving to the mall are the bread and butter. Even Jeep recognized that - it's why there are now gargantuan sized Wranglers with 4 doors, power everything, and doo-dads galore inside. If people were really as hard core as they want to appear, the only options on the Wrangler would be a radio and AC.
Mikey2020
New member
Agree 100%. I'm one of the 99% of people who don't use the 4runner to it's full capacity, but love the idea that I can, the potential to take it WAY off the beaten path if I ever wanted to, and the rugged looks for the daily drive.
I actually dig the look of the new bronco, but my last Ford transmission went bad at 40K miles, and I said never again. And I test drove a couple Jeep Wranglers, and the on road manners were just so awful, doesn't even compare to the ride of the 4runner.
LandCruiser
New member
Until I moved to CA, my 4Runner was heavily used on CO and WY fire roads and in extreme conditions. I would really like to buy another vehicle with the same durability and capabilities, not one that simply looks butch. Preferably with as little luxo BS as possible since I tend to be hard on my trucks inside and out.
Jernik
New member
I'm with you there. After spending a few years living in the country in an area that gets snow/ice (and roads don't get consistently plowed), I won't go without some form of 4x4 or AWD in the driveway again. I learned it's better to have it and not need it than find you need it and not have it.
Plus, the 4R has gotten me through a couple of situations that became unexpectedly worse than we planned for - nowhere near the 4R's max, but I was glad to have the extra capability and peace of mind at the time. Other times it has just made things much more convenient - simply going through a bad section of road or a parking area with deep potholes and not having to worry about dragging parts off the underside or finding another route/place to park.
But yeah, 99.9% of the time I'm a poser. :biggrin1:
ElectroBoy
Banned
I’ve never owned a Ford so I have no personal experience with their reliability, but I’ve driven plenty of Ford rentals over the years when traveling for work. I’ve never been impressed with any of their sedans, trucks, or SUVs. I don’t have any faith that the new Bronco would change my bias, but I’d like to take one for a test drive or rent one for a weekend.
LandCruiser
New member
The Raptor is a very fun truck. The speed and power of that thing is ridiculous and the suspension really lets you float over the terrain. Until something breaks. It's also huge and super comfortable inside.
The GT Mustangs are really solid cars. Drive and handle great, stupid fast. But pretty much everything that isn't concerned with the drivetrain is utter shit in that car.
I think the Bronco will be a cross between those two.
thennen
New member
I have similar prejudices. I'd rather have a naturally aspirated engine than a turbo in a vehicle I plan to keep for hundreds of thousands of miles. While modern turbos are likely much better than the old days, I can't imagine them having fewer troubles over the long haul, or even the same amount of troubles. The 4.0 V6 in today's Runner is surely more durable than a 2.2-liter 4 cylinder turbo making the same power, wouldn't you think?
thennen
New member
Turbocharged engines have more troubles over the long haul than naturally aspirated ones. I was reading an article from 2018 yesterday(Are Small-Displacement Turbo Engines Reliable in the Long Term? | Design News) that indicated that this is the main reason Toyota hasn't adopted turbos across large portions of their fleet. Do a search on any automaker plus the phrase 'turbo problems' and you'll find specific models and problems listed, lots of them. Do the same search with Toyota and you get generic articles on turbo problems in general - few if any Toyota problems.
CharlesNellis
New member
It's a joke when they say they designed it trump the wrangler as the king of offroading. Wrangler is still king with its solid front axle.
If they're talking about high speed desert stuff, the wrangler was never king of that anyways.
If they're talking about high speed desert stuff, the wrangler was never king of that anyways.
LandCruiser
New member
Toyota hasn't adopted turbos because their engine technology is far behind other automakers. It's also why they can't make an in house sports car to save their damn lives.
My current Chevy work truck is at 165k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues with the turbo system. My last Chevy work truck had 250k miles with a turbo diesel and no issues. In fact ive seen over a million miles pulling heavy trailers across the country from sea level to 10k feet and have never had any issues with any components pertaining to the turbo system. That's not to say it never happens, I've seen plenty of trucks on the side of the road and I'm sure some of those are blown turbos, but I've never personally experienced it.
Personally, I'd take one of those baby Duramax 3.0 over this 4.0L any day
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techno
New member
I'm looking forward to this coming out. This might seem strange to some folks, but I'm hoping it will have a 3rd row option. I'm one of those few people that actually need a true Sport Utility Vehicle. I want good offroad ability for 'Sport' on the weekends, and 3rd row functionality for 'Utility' during the week.
The 4Runner fits the bill nicely and the only other real competitors at this time are Land Rovers.
Sadly, my 3rd gen 4Runner is rusting away to nothing and my 4th gen has become an unreliable maintenance nightmare, so I'm getting ready to jump ship if something else comes along that meets my needs/wants. Maybe the Bronco will make that happen??
The 4Runner fits the bill nicely and the only other real competitors at this time are Land Rovers.
Sadly, my 3rd gen 4Runner is rusting away to nothing and my 4th gen has become an unreliable maintenance nightmare, so I'm getting ready to jump ship if something else comes along that meets my needs/wants. Maybe the Bronco will make that happen??
