Anyone care about the new Bronco?

[Jetboy]

Interesting side note:

Looks like the sway bar disconnect is hydraulic. As per Ford - it's hydraulic and semi-active. Not sure what all it can do. Looks visually very similar to BMW's hydraulic sway bar mechanism. If it does what I think it *could* do - it'll have a great chance at actually performing better than a stock wrangler solid axle in articulation and load distribution in rock crawling. But that's yet to be seen.

Images show no rear sway bar at all. Likely because it has coilovers way out at the corner so it may not need a rear sway bar. And the rear is a 3 link with a panhard bar that rides behind the axle, not over top. So it's exposed to damage - but probably has no interference throughout the travel range. And looks like it could handle a lot of travel range.

 

[sn_85]

I really dig the look of the short wheelbase. This is what the Defender should've looked like.

I think James Bond would rather drive the Bronco than the Defender for the new movie. It's just not British enough.

 

[sn_85]

I agree with what you're saying. The 4Runner is a great vehicle as it sits, and I see ten times more examples on this forum of people going from Jeep to 4Runner than in the other direction.

Right now, I think Toyota has a small problem with model recognition with the 4R, as huge as Toyota is. Here's what I mean: say "Ford Bronco", and virtually everyone knows what you're talking about. Even if they're thinking about a 1970s/80s vehicle, the name recognition is instant - they know it's a big-ish SUV kinda thing. That's due to many things, including OJ, but partly because maybe a billion were sold over the decades. Marketing today could be as simple as, "See the new Bronco at your local Ford dealer today!" They almost don't need to add anything to that. Meanwhile, I still find myself having to explain to the occasional person what exactly my 4Runner is if they're not looking at it.

So what happens is, when the Bronco finally becomes available, everyone will have an idea what it is before they see it. They'll want to mosey down to the Ford dealership, specifically to check out a new Bronco. If a companion to the 4Runner is launched, even if it's more capable and as bad-ass as everyone wants, it now needs to be named and marketed. Nobody is going to mosey to the Toyota dealership to check out the, uh, Toyota Percheron? (big, strong horse). Not an insurmountable problem, but an expensive one from a marketing standpoint.

We all on this forum need absolutely no marketing from Toyota to tell us what's going on with new models, etc. We're pretty savvy. But the general public, to whom Toyota must sell in order to succeed, needs a lot of it to understand. Toyota will probably need to eventually show the NEW 4Runner besting the Bronco in a number of ways, just to make people aware that the 4Runner is a direct competitor. Like most 4R owners, most new Bronco owners won't care one whit about the technical marvels residing under the floorboard, or that it's B-O-F, or how many speeds the tranny has, or electronic locking this and that, etc., etc. Only a small percentage, like this forum, will care about the tech. But call it a Bronco, and oh, brother, bring me one - I don't care what it has!

My point is that Ford will probably recoup their investments in the new Bronco more quickly because the name will sell itself. Toyota launching a companion to the 4Runner will have a much more difficult time getting the awareness out there.

The 4Runner has a strong and instantly recognizable name. The only problem is that for the 4th and 5th gen they turned it into a family SUV and have only now tried adapting it to the off-road market in the pathetic TRD Pro iteration. If they want to come with a Bronco fighter it needs to be the 4Runner. I honestly don't think it would be that hard for them to make the 4Runner more appealing. Obviously better powertrain, better gear ratios, and for the love of god give me the ability to run oversized tires without having to hack up the front end. You can't even fit 32.8" tires on the 4Runner without chopping up something. For the same reasons they lost the way with the Land Cruiser 200 series. They turned it into a stealth wealth family hauler that is out of reach for most people at $90k. Toyota needs to re-introduce the LC and 4Runner as more off-road oriented vehicles and leave the Sequoia and LX as the family haulers. I just hope they don't make everything an hour glass or squinty face like they've been doing to all their vehicles.

 

[Dillusion]

Turbos + direct injection lead to intake fouling. See my post above. Ford has addressed it on the 3.5 ecoboost but has not addressed it in the 2.3 or 2.7 they offer in the Bronco.

Not familiar with the EcoBoost but not something a little tuning could help?

 

[Jetboy]

Not familiar with the EcoBoost but not something a little tuning could help?

No. If you have an EGR and direct injection - you always have carbon buildup due to oil vapors being baked onto the intake valves with fuel (with detergent in it) flowing over the intake valves to clean them. That's why Toyota developed the D4S system. Mostly it's a good way to clean intakes. Performance is a nice side benefit.

EGR delete probably could help fix it. But good luck on modern engines. Usually its internal in the manifolds now. And there's still oil from the valves themselves that will build up on it. Valve seals always leak some oil film.

 

[SeanWN86]

I agree with what you're saying. The 4Runner is a great vehicle as it sits, and I see ten times more examples on this forum of people going from Jeep to 4Runner than in the other direction.

Right now, I think Toyota has a small problem with model recognition with the 4R, as huge as Toyota is. Here's what I mean: say "Ford Bronco", and virtually everyone knows what you're talking about. Even if they're thinking about a 1970s/80s vehicle, the name recognition is instant - they know it's a big-ish SUV kinda thing. That's due to many things, including OJ, but partly because maybe a billion were sold over the decades. Marketing today could be as simple as, "See the new Bronco at your local Ford dealer today!" They almost don't need to add anything to that. Meanwhile, I still find myself having to explain to the occasional person what exactly my 4Runner is if they're not looking at it.

So what happens is, when the Bronco finally becomes available, everyone will have an idea what it is before they see it. They'll want to mosey down to the Ford dealership, specifically to check out a new Bronco. If a companion to the 4Runner is launched, even if it's more capable and as bad-ass as everyone wants, it now needs to be named and marketed. Nobody is going to mosey to the Toyota dealership to check out the, uh, Toyota Percheron? (big, strong horse). Not an insurmountable problem, but an expensive one from a marketing standpoint.

We all on this forum need absolutely no marketing from Toyota to tell us what's going on with new models, etc. We're pretty savvy. But the general public, to whom Toyota must sell in order to succeed, needs a lot of it to understand. Toyota will probably need to eventually show the NEW 4Runner besting the Bronco in a number of ways, just to make people aware that the 4Runner is a direct competitor. Like most 4R owners, most new Bronco owners won't care one whit about the technical marvels residing under the floorboard, or that it's B-O-F, or how many speeds the tranny has, or electronic locking this and that, etc., etc. Only a small percentage, like this forum, will care about the tech. But call it a Bronco, and oh, brother, bring me one - I don't care what it has!

My point is that Ford will probably recoup their investments in the new Bronco more quickly because the name will sell itself. Toyota launching a companion to the 4Runner will have a much more difficult time getting the awareness out there.

4runner will always have a hard time competing against a jeep or bronco for sales. As you said brand recognition. Also two other saling points; HP and bottom dollar.
There's several buyer types; brand/recognition driven, dollar driven and purpose driven. Ford and jeep will always win on two of those over a 4runner.
[MENTION=103801]sn_85[/MENTION] said it best, Toyota's targeting that "stealth wealth". And with only really ever doing cosmetic updates. My 4th gen is not near as reliable as my 1st gen tacoma.. compared to other offerings, sure.. but I still cuss it out daily. And when I see how a lot of the 5th gen is mechanically the same as the 4th gen(without a V8 ) and getting the same horrible mpg..

 

[juanlien]

it looks like a combination of jeep commander, wrangler, and renegade to me.

nice

 

[Unretired]

~Edit, forgot towing~

- JL tops out at 3,500lbs for the 4 door, 2 door is only 1,500. I'm sure this is not from the lack of power but more from a safe handling perspective. This is too low to comfortable tow a small family trailer. The 5,000 lb capacity of the 4runner isn't huge but I can easily town a small family trailer and have leftover capacity for gear.
I'm happy to see Ford says the 2 dr can tow 3500 but I don't understand why hey limit the 4 door to the same. I'm sure it CAN safely haul more but I'm sure they only cared about meeting the Jeeps numbers. Disappointing

I was surprised when I saw the towing numbers.
I thought 5000 was kinda low on the 4Runner (previously only had full size trucks)
3500 really limits the options.
I had no idea how low the numbers (particularly tongue weight) were on the Wranglers.

 

[Jetboy]

I was surprised when I saw the towing numbers.
I thought 5000 was kinda low on the 4Runner (previously only had full size trucks)
3500 really limits the options.
I had no idea how low the numbers (particularly tongue weight) were on the Wranglers.

Almost certainly the result of suspension and small brakes. No rear sway bar on the Bronco. Ford went all-in on suspension travel and articulation and the tradeoff is that it is not going to haul or tow very well. The folks who throw 2000lbs of bolt on crap on the rear end are probably going to hate life. Keep it light and I think it'll perform exactly as intended. It also has small brakes and big tires. The combo is pretty limiting in tow capacity.

 

[Sgb020]

I just bought my first 4Runner less then a month as a secondary vehicle. I have always owned and still own a F150. Everyone of them has given me 250k plus trouble free miles. I would not own a fiat product I’m sure the bronco will be a lot more reliable.

 

[MrSeth]

So my family has owned probably more than a dozen Ford's over the years. Seems like these trucks always gave us these issues. Each were bought NEW from the dealerships.

2011 F150 6.2L Raptor- transmission, shifter, 4x4 system, rear end.
2007 F150 (work truck)- transmission, wheel bearings
2005 Ford Excursion- went through 3 transmissions, 6 mpg towing the covered trailer lol. 4x4 always went out as well.
2006 Expedition- shitbox all around, but 4x4 was terrible
2007 Lincoln Navigator (we know its a pimped expedition)- suspension, transmission

Our Mustangs we bought were totally fine both 2007, one a GT500 and the other a GT/CS. We owned several more work truck F150's ranging from 2010-2013 for our ranch/oil fields with the workers not reporting any issues. Did they make any changes from 2011 to 2013 on the transmissions?

Little brother still throws money at his Raptor because he loves it. But dad and mom have switched to Lexus GX460 and 570, plus picked up a 2017 2500 Dodge Ram Cummins for the covered trailer and it has done great.

Has ford sorted out their issues with 4x4 and their transmissions to where someone can wheel it without issues on their max tire size of 35"?

I too am surprised to see how low max tow capacity is... I wonder how limiting that will be for the offroad accessory market?

Anywho, I thing we all will give our honest opinions after seeing how these things do on (or off) the trails for a year or two :llama:

 

[Hawk_]

I don't own a 4Runner, but I'll be darned did Ford hit a home run with this vehicle. I'm not rushing to the dealership to put a deposit on one though.

I've never cared for the Jeep and the current 4Runner is getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

[Z-man]

Pricing for the Bronco seems comparable to the 4-Runner. The middle tier Bronco 4-door is similar in spec to the TRD Premium as both are $45k-ish.

At 14 I leaned to drive in a 1986 full size Bronco stick. Our hunting truck. It was easy with the 285-hp V8!

I currently have a 2016 ORP and thought about a Bronco about as long as it took me to see the rear storage is about the size of my Yeti, let alone my German shepherd.

Also, buying and replacing parts for the 4Runner is so easy and economical compared to every other vehicle I've ever owned.

Some of the interior designs Ford has in the bronco are awesome. Like the accessories bar and charging ports across the dash. Easy light bar integration. External tie down latches. If Toyota would ask anyone who uses a 4Runner they'd immediately have a list of 25 easy design improvements to make that wouldn't involve crazy tech or new engines. Maybe this will entice them? However, since ill likely either purchase another 4Runner or Landcruiser it probably is low on their list to make major improvements to keep customers, well maybe until now???


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[Z-man]

Ford has reported >200 ford branded accessories for the Bronco, from lift kits, wheels, bumpers, light bars, racks, camping accessories, etc.

They want a custom vehicle made easy and Ford makes the $. I bet that's also part of delay. I bet there's going to be specials for $X000 in free accessories when financed. Through Ford, etc.

 

[Ogre75]

Ford has reported >200 ford branded accessories for the Bronco, from lift kits, wheels, bumpers, light bars, racks, camping accessories, etc.

They want a custom vehicle made easy and Ford makes the $. I bet that's also part of delay. I bet there's going to be specials for $X000 in free accessories when financed. Through Ford, etc.

That's smart. But can it compete with Toyota in the multitude of accessories available at the dealership... you know, a half assed skid plate, black wheels, oh, and don't forget rubber floor mats... lol

 

[rdruss]

The hype is over, let's see some on and off the road and see how they do and what owners think of them. There's not much that they will be able to do that a well put together 4Runner can't do. If there is, let's see it.

 

[ForRun]

No. If you have an EGR and direct injection - you always have carbon buildup due to oil vapors being baked onto the intake valves with fuel (with detergent in it) flowing over the intake valves to clean them. That's why Toyota developed the D4S system. Mostly it's a good way to clean intakes. Performance is a nice side benefit.

EGR delete probably could help fix it. But good luck on modern engines. Usually its internal in the manifolds now. And there's still oil from the valves themselves that will build up on it. Valve seals always leak some oil film.

Ford had an issue with the direct injection early on eco boost. They switched around 2017 to port injection to clear up that mess

 

[Deuxdiesel]

If nothing else, Ford has increased the price of used Bronco's exponentially. 1st gens have been really expensive for years, but even the Bronco II's are going up rapidly in price, as are the OJ Bronco's.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

The offroad trail mapping feature looks really nice. That is definitely something I was wishing for in the 4R

 

[wifestruck]

My answer for me is NO :reddance: