Are rear seat latches supposed to lock?

[Mark86]

This topic is definitely catching my attention. I always took it for granted that the seats are secure without any locking mechanism. I went down and closely examined the back seats in my 4Runner after reading all of this info. I noticed that it does take a considerable amount of pull to actually get the seat bottoms to lift up. They don't just fly up when you touch that strap. If you add additional weight to the seat, it would be even harder for the seat bottoms to lift up. You can never be too safe though.

 

[Baba Booey]

Mark86,

I agree. It seems that the seat cushions are held in place, as there is some resistance or friction between the seat cushion and seat back when they are in position.

However, in a severe frontal impact, the occupant may have a tendency to be lifted forward in the seat, thereby decreasing the weight that is holding it in place. As eorange pointed out - what about a rollover situation? Could the seat flip out of position? If so, where would the occupant end up if/when the vehicle returned to an upright position? Would he/she still be on the seat? What if the vehicle rolled multiple times with a rear seat cushion flopping all over the place?

I don't know the answers, but for my children's sake, I would like to find out more.

As a bonus, maybe a rear seat locking fix would also take care of the creaking noise that led me down this road in the first place.:

 

[Uneek]

I know what you're referring to, when I was looking at the 4R at the dealer I noticed that as well. There's nothing that really locks the bottom seat cushion in place, other than bottom seat tucking under seatback cushion. It just flips up and it appears the straps are more for a "handle" sort of speak. I don't have my 4R yet.

But for what it's worth, the '05 DoubleCab Tacoma is the same thing. My guess is Toyota assumes it's an 'ok' or acceptable design since the '05 Tacoma just went through a redesign.

 

[loner]

loner,

I am concerned for a few reasons. ...

Thank you for the explanation. Good luck finding peace of mind on this. I still think it's a non-issue (and I have two babies that ride back there also), but I can see where you are coming from.

:cheers:

 

[Baba Booey]

I just received a call back from the service manager at my dealership. He said he spoke with someone at Toyota's engineering department, and the rear seat NOT locking is normal. However, they admitted that the write-up in the owner's manual is an error.

Supposedly, they told him that it is not a safety issue, even with children in the back. I guess they know what they are talking about. In this day and age of lawsuits, I am sure they wouldn't want to risk multi-million dollar awards for something as simple as a latch on a seat.

 

[eorange]

Thanks for checking this out.

 

[Smooth317]

Doesn't your child and booster seat both use the chest strap to restrain them to the back of the seat as well as the waist belt? If they're using both to hold them down and back, unless the chest strap fails somehow, I don't see how the seat cushion could fly forward. I suppose its possible some sort of roll-over could somehow slide the chest strap over their head, but that doesn't seem any more likely than any other vehicle.

 

[Northof49]

Because we don't know how an unsecured seat will behave in a crash. Factors: Force of crash? Rollover involved (upside down)? Weight of said person on seat? I have no idea what would happen.

Common sense just tells me a locked seat would be safer. My '99 Explorer had it and the rear seats were solidly locked in place.

Do you really believe that you guys have thought of this and Toyota has not? The seats are as they are for a reason, and the design has been consistant in the 4Runner since the 2nd generation......it works, and is safe.

 

[4runner06]

hey guys, my rear seat creaks a little too. I have to fold the rear seat down and then slam it a little to keep it from making that sound. It's getting rather annoying. I dunno if I should go to the dealer about this or what, but it's starting to become something that I'm not liking. Lemmie know what you guys think. The sound is coming from the connector latch from the seat to the wall of the 4runner. Help me out with this and lemmie know what I should do.

 

[Spider5]

hey guys, my rear seat creaks a little too. I have to fold the rear seat down and then slam it a little to keep it from making that sound. It's getting rather annoying. I dunno if I should go to the dealer about this or what, but it's starting to become something that I'm not liking. Lemmie know what you guys think. The sound is coming from the connector latch from the seat to the wall of the 4runner. Help me out with this and lemmie know what I should do.

Do a search on this issue it has been discussed many times in this forum. A little silicon grease or electrical tapes solves the problem.

 

[Baba Booey]

Smooth317,

You are correct, but the conflicting information in the owner's manual, along with the apparently useless hardware under the seats had me wondering.

Northof49,

In case you are not aware, there are legitimate lawsuits filed every year where reputable manufacturers are found liable for defective products - and rightfully so in some cases. Examples that come to mind are automobiles, pharmaceuticals, electrical appliances, etc.

There are also numerous safety recalls every year. One of my child's car seats was recalled for a faulty latch design that held the straps in place. How could an engineering team at a multi-billion dollar company, in the 21st century, screw up a latch on something as simple as a car seat?

I agree that these situations are rare, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the seats could have posed a safety hazard. I just wanted to be sure.

 

[Spider5]

Do you really believe that you guys have thought of this and Toyota has not? The seats are as they are for a reason, and the design has been consistant in the 4Runner since the 2nd generation......it works, and is safe.

Many things have been though throught but you still get TSB and recalls on each model Toyota puts out. On my Highlander I was concerned about the child safety lock that kept unlocking guess what 6 months later a recall on the child safety lock.

Still concerned.

 

[Northof49]

Yes I am aware of all that.....however, as I stated, the probability of Toyota overlooking a safety issue for 16 years production of the same rear seat design is massively slim......

Even more fundamentaly......I am also curious on the logic behind the whole concern. How the hell is a 2 pound seat going to fly up and eject a passenger weighing considerably more, that is held down by a seat belt? If you can make this happen in your head (I can't), then I can't see how a little latch is going to help matters? That's like saying if you go over a big bump and your floormats are not latched down they're going to make your feet fly off the floor......

I am not aware of any cushion seat by any manufacturer that is made to hold you down.....that's what the seat belt is for.

 

[mjfrank]

I have a 2004, and I have those pseudo-latches under the rear seat cushions that you describe. There is a formed piece of sheet metal welded to the floor that fits up into a shallow pocket in the seat bottom. I'm sure you 2005 guys have this too. There is a flap of carpet over it, so it's kind of hidden.

I believe those are put there to hold the seat down in the event of an accident. Rapid decelleration with even a slight weight in the seat is likely going to result in a straight-forward movement in the seat base, in which case, those hooks would engage the seat, and prevent it from sliding any farther forward.

As long as a seat beat and shoulder harness are used, there should be no more danger than if they were latched.

 

[Baba Booey]

Northof49,

I was not really concerned about the seat "ejecting" anyone. However, it is not such a stretch to be concerned that the seat could become dislodged, thereby altering the seating position of my children, which in turn could possibly affect the ability of the seat belts to work properly. A seat belt pressed against the neck of a 40 pound child in an accident could be disastrous. To me, it was worth checking out. If you are offended by my stupidity - too bad!

I am satisfied with Toyota's explanation, and they did admit that the owner's manual's instructions are in error.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, though. Now I can go out and get the third row seats and set them in my cargo area. As long as the passengers riding back there weigh more than the seats, I will be good to go. After all, how could an improperly restrained seat pose any safety hazard?

 

[alpha]

I can see the concern, and did notice it didn't lock. Our previous Pathfinder did. But I did also notice that the latch was there, even if it wasn't to lock.

I never thought twice about that. I saw that it protruded into the seat, and in an emergency situation, I would see it to be sufficient in staying down. At least movement from side to side, and movement forward.

 

[Northof49]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, though. Now I can go out and get the third row seats and set them in my cargo area. As long as the passengers riding back there weigh more than the seats, I will be good to go. After all, how could an improperly restrained seat pose any safety hazard?

Point was that the seats are not "improperly restrained."

In the 16 years that seat design has been in place in the 4Runner, clearly many have carried children, many have crashed, and many have crashed while carrying children. 16 years is an absolute ETERNITY for a design to survive in the automotive world. If a problem existed with the way those seats are fastened , it would have been either a) dealt with, or b) the subject of a lawsuit (and then dealt with).

Example: Toyota is currently replacing all the steering center links free of charge on all 90-95 4Runner's, PU's, and T-100's. To the best of my knowledge, 2 or 3 of these pieces have broken in all of North America; keeping in mind that steering components break on 16 year old vehicles with 300,000 miles all the time.

Now, don't you think a company doing such would also correct a problem with a seat design -still used to this day- if it posed a safety issue? Or just change the design altogether?



I'm not trying to go out of my way to be a dick.....just trying to provide a reasonable answer. If you stilll feel the design is flawed, I think it will be tough to get a shop to modify the seat mounts. I'm actually 99% certain any Toyota dealer would not touch that with a 20 foot pole, in the interest of safety

 

[N8G]

I just had a thought that might make everyone worried about this feel better. Aircraft lower seat cusions are not "latched" in any way. You can easily pull them right off the bottom of the seat, and are made to do so as evidenced by the "in case of water landing (whatever the f' that is!), use the seat bottom as floation device." You can even slide them around a bit when sitting on them.

I realize the design isn't exaclty the same as the flip forward design in the 4Runner, but I belive the concerns of the moving seating position in the case of an accident is the same. Vehicle manufactures must think that the safety belt's function overrides any need to "lock" a seat bottom.

 

[Smooth317]

I just had a thought that might make everyone worried about this feel better. Aircraft lower seat cusions are not "latched" in any way. You can easily pull them right off the bottom of the seat, and are made to do so as evidenced by the "in case of water landing (whatever the f' that is!), use the seat bottom as floation device." You can even slide them around a bit when sitting on them.

I realize the design isn't exaclty the same as the flip forward design in the 4Runner, but I belive the concerns of the moving seating position in the case of an accident is the same. Vehicle manufactures must think that the safety belt's function overrides any need to "lock" a seat bottom.

Well said. The latch would be pointless and is, therefore, an unnecessary added expense, since the two seat belts hold the occupant and the seat down the same as the latch would if it existed. If someone doesn't use both seat belts, then there's nothing Toyota can do about that...any more than they can control someone letting their dog hang its head out the window and catching a mailbox with its teeth. At that point, its the owner's fault.

On this one, I guess it boils down to if you can envision the seat rotating forward if someone's weight AND the two seat belts are pushing down and back on the seat at all. Even a little bit could put a child in a carrier or a booster seat in danger. I don't see how it could happen, but then again I'm no Nostradumass and I don't foresee all things. I can see how a parent's protective imagination could wonder about this. I'd rather see a parent check on something like this rather than the idiots I see letting their 5 year olds ride in the front-middle seat of a pick-up truck with no booster and only a lap belt.

 

[Boston_Runner]

Hmmm, I wonder do the 4runner with the third row seats have latches for the 2nd row seats.