Found it... it was a reference to tube and fin type coolers, which the super cooler is not... so I stand corrected, the stacked plate cooler should work great for us!!
B&M 70268 SuperCooler Transmission Cooler Install on a 3rd Gen
- Thread starter BigFishAllDay
- Start date
Found it... it was a reference to tube and fin type coolers, which the super cooler is not... so I stand corrected, the stacked plate cooler should work great for us!!
4Runner4Leon
Senior Member
I'm confused - is it 20,000 miles or 80,000 miles?
I'd go to radiator cooler first, then to the B&M. Otherwise the radiator will be heating up the fluid that the B&M just cooled.
The radiator was replaced by a dealer, with dealer invoice 20,000 miles ago. I was trying to say that I think it has another 70 - 80,000 miles of life remaining. After reading over my response, I can see how that could sound confusing.
4Runner4Leon
Senior Member
Got it. You're good to go with that radiator! :thumb:
Awesome! Thanks!!
pdx650
Member
Ken-Cade,
I no longer have my ‘97 4Runner anymore. It was a 4cylinder 3RZ-FE engine. I was towing a box u-haul trailer to Montana from Virginia. I painted the wheels and bumper green. So, if you look around this section and the wheel paint thread and see those....that’s me. Anyway. The point I’m putting out there is I read this thread and had decided, not knowing the history of maintenance, to bypass the radiator and not risk the mixing of coolant and transmission fluid. The mileage was quite high and I was going to be driving it from Virginia to, ultimately, Portland Oregon. I also used a single piece of hose to connect the output and input together off of the radiator. If there was ever going to be a leak between the rad. and the trans. cooler wall it would just go into the hose and back to the radiator. I think I was thorough when I got all of the transmission fluid out of the integrated cooler.
Later on, I installed a transmission fluid temperature gauge from autometer, installed it in an autometer specific A pillar pod in conjunction with an on/off switch down by the instrument cluster dimmer rheostat where there was a blank space available. The temp sensor was installed in line after the B&M cooler (70268) I installed to get a reading of the cooled fluid, not the hot fluid before the cooler. I got the idea for the install from bigfishallday.
I no longer have my ‘97 4Runner anymore. It was a 4cylinder 3RZ-FE engine. I was towing a box u-haul trailer to Montana from Virginia. I painted the wheels and bumper green. So, if you look around this section and the wheel paint thread and see those....that’s me. Anyway. The point I’m putting out there is I read this thread and had decided, not knowing the history of maintenance, to bypass the radiator and not risk the mixing of coolant and transmission fluid. The mileage was quite high and I was going to be driving it from Virginia to, ultimately, Portland Oregon. I also used a single piece of hose to connect the output and input together off of the radiator. If there was ever going to be a leak between the rad. and the trans. cooler wall it would just go into the hose and back to the radiator. I think I was thorough when I got all of the transmission fluid out of the integrated cooler.
Later on, I installed a transmission fluid temperature gauge from autometer, installed it in an autometer specific A pillar pod in conjunction with an on/off switch down by the instrument cluster dimmer rheostat where there was a blank space available. The temp sensor was installed in line after the B&M cooler (70268) I installed to get a reading of the cooled fluid, not the hot fluid before the cooler. I got the idea for the install from bigfishallday.
We got ours installed yesterday, not a difficult job at all, but wanted to take our time and do it right.. Some things I did a little differently than the original poster:
We mounted ours in series with the radiator since the radiator has recently been replaced.
We mounted the cooler first, on the driver's side of the middle grill support and relocated the horn to the support. I was able to bend two of the brackets that came with the cooler to secure from the middle support on one side and from the A/C condenser mounting tabs on the other side. By mounting this way I was able to avoid using the zip ties to mount through the radiator and condenser, AND was able to provide a little more separation to improve air flow. The horn relocation looks a little goofy, but it's behind the grill, and I may replaced those stock beepers with honkers later on. I thought about splicing the horn lead and putting it beside the passenger side horn but I want to do as little "Frankenstien'ing" to this car as possible.
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I routed the hoses after mounting the cooler, through the hole for the A/C lines, but I routed the return line back to the transmission behind the hood latch framing and the supply line along the lower bumper framing. My concern is rocks or road debris damaging the lines, so I wanted to have these as hidden as possible.
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As for going through the hole, I tried a few different methods of protecting the hoses and none of them seemed to work really well without cramping the hoses and A/C lines in that space. So right now the hoses are just going through the hole without any kind of sleeving or protection. My thought on that is that while protecting the hoses would be ideal, I'd rather leave that space uncramped, and also since that piece is a part of the body, the hoses will move it, they should not be rubbing back and forth against that metal regularly. Adversely there are a couple of protective sleeves on the original transmission lines that could maybe be removed and used here. Open to thoughts or suggestion here, I'll probably revisit this area, I may try experimenting with some header wrap or something similar.
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I was able to do this job without spilling one drop of transmission oil. I got the new hoses routed first, and had the new hoses resting at the locations I was going to tie in to, at the return nipple located on the driver's side of the radiator, and the hard return line back to the transmission located (conveniently) above the front end cross member in a tiny little rat's nest of a space. I did the radiator side first by loosening the factory hose clamp, twisting the hose on the nipple to break it free, and slowly pulling the hose off the nipple and immediately pointing the hose upward. As soon as I had the old hose off, I put the new hose on.
At the other end I ended up having the cut factory hose off the hard line with a box cutter. Again I immediately pointed the hose end upward, and put the new hose onto the end of the hard line. Now holding the factory hose with both ends up I pulled the dipstick and back into the pan the oil went. It worked great, didn't lose any oil out of the system, and a nice clean install.
So we added about a half a quart of new Dexron-III when we were completely finished, it shifts smooth, but still registers low on the dipstick. By the way, I HATE THAT DIPSTICK!!! I don't want to overfill it, but I know I didn't lose any oil from the system and I couldn't imagine that little cooler using up a full quart of oil. I wanted to get some other's perspectives on that. We used the B&M 70264, I haven't seen any reference to the volume of this cooler, but I would have liked to have been able to only add the exact volume of the cooler plus a tiny bit extra for the volume of the additional hose.
Any thoughts or ideas on how much oil to add, or on the hose protection are welcome!!
Thanks again to the OP for the write-up it was more than helpful! And I'm happy to share details on our install with anyone else who may be looking to do this to theirs...
Happy 4Runner:
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Thaaaa Twins:
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We mounted ours in series with the radiator since the radiator has recently been replaced.
We mounted the cooler first, on the driver's side of the middle grill support and relocated the horn to the support. I was able to bend two of the brackets that came with the cooler to secure from the middle support on one side and from the A/C condenser mounting tabs on the other side. By mounting this way I was able to avoid using the zip ties to mount through the radiator and condenser, AND was able to provide a little more separation to improve air flow. The horn relocation looks a little goofy, but it's behind the grill, and I may replaced those stock beepers with honkers later on. I thought about splicing the horn lead and putting it beside the passenger side horn but I want to do as little "Frankenstien'ing" to this car as possible.
I routed the hoses after mounting the cooler, through the hole for the A/C lines, but I routed the return line back to the transmission behind the hood latch framing and the supply line along the lower bumper framing. My concern is rocks or road debris damaging the lines, so I wanted to have these as hidden as possible.
As for going through the hole, I tried a few different methods of protecting the hoses and none of them seemed to work really well without cramping the hoses and A/C lines in that space. So right now the hoses are just going through the hole without any kind of sleeving or protection. My thought on that is that while protecting the hoses would be ideal, I'd rather leave that space uncramped, and also since that piece is a part of the body, the hoses will move it, they should not be rubbing back and forth against that metal regularly. Adversely there are a couple of protective sleeves on the original transmission lines that could maybe be removed and used here. Open to thoughts or suggestion here, I'll probably revisit this area, I may try experimenting with some header wrap or something similar.
I was able to do this job without spilling one drop of transmission oil. I got the new hoses routed first, and had the new hoses resting at the locations I was going to tie in to, at the return nipple located on the driver's side of the radiator, and the hard return line back to the transmission located (conveniently) above the front end cross member in a tiny little rat's nest of a space. I did the radiator side first by loosening the factory hose clamp, twisting the hose on the nipple to break it free, and slowly pulling the hose off the nipple and immediately pointing the hose upward. As soon as I had the old hose off, I put the new hose on.
At the other end I ended up having the cut factory hose off the hard line with a box cutter. Again I immediately pointed the hose end upward, and put the new hose onto the end of the hard line. Now holding the factory hose with both ends up I pulled the dipstick and back into the pan the oil went. It worked great, didn't lose any oil out of the system, and a nice clean install.
So we added about a half a quart of new Dexron-III when we were completely finished, it shifts smooth, but still registers low on the dipstick. By the way, I HATE THAT DIPSTICK!!! I don't want to overfill it, but I know I didn't lose any oil from the system and I couldn't imagine that little cooler using up a full quart of oil. I wanted to get some other's perspectives on that. We used the B&M 70264, I haven't seen any reference to the volume of this cooler, but I would have liked to have been able to only add the exact volume of the cooler plus a tiny bit extra for the volume of the additional hose.
Any thoughts or ideas on how much oil to add, or on the hose protection are welcome!!
Thanks again to the OP for the write-up it was more than helpful! And I'm happy to share details on our install with anyone else who may be looking to do this to theirs...
Happy 4Runner:
Thaaaa Twins:
4Runner4Leon
Senior Member
Nice writeup! Good move on the series install!
I tried installing my 70264 on the driver side at first, but then ended up putting it on the passenger side, I forget why. Here's my install:
If I read you correctly, I'd rethink this - you actually want the cooler as close as possible to the condenser, so that when the fan is pulling in air at low speeds, it'll force the air to go through the trans cooler first. If you have too big of a gap between the cooler and the condenser, the cooling air will go around the cooler and into the fan.
I used an idea I saw on other OEM installations, protecting the rubber hose with a split loom. It's durable and thin, so it doesn't take up too much space. I used it at all locations where I could envision potential contact:
I had to add way more trans fluid than I expected, I think over a quart. So this sounds right to me.
I tried installing my 70264 on the driver side at first, but then ended up putting it on the passenger side, I forget why. Here's my install:
If I read you correctly, I'd rethink this - you actually want the cooler as close as possible to the condenser, so that when the fan is pulling in air at low speeds, it'll force the air to go through the trans cooler first. If you have too big of a gap between the cooler and the condenser, the cooling air will go around the cooler and into the fan.
I used an idea I saw on other OEM installations, protecting the rubber hose with a split loom. It's durable and thin, so it doesn't take up too much space. I used it at all locations where I could envision potential contact:
I had to add way more trans fluid than I expected, I think over a quart. So this sounds right to me.
Thanks, Leon!! Man I like how you painted those brackets black, I may have to do that to mine at some point in the future!!
On the spacing between the condenser and cooler this was my thought process.. First off, it's a half inch in front of the condenser at most, and I agree, much more than that would be ineffective. Also, I was afraid being the stacked plate design with the air flowing through diagonally instead of straight through the fins like the condenser and radiator, it would be a strain to pull the air through with the cooler directly against the condenser. In other words I wanted to create a vacuum between the condenser and cooler. I did the smoke test after we finished the install and we are definitely getting air flow.
EXCELLENT idea on the split loom, I will definitely go that route, thanks for chiming in on that!!
You've got a great installation yourself, looks very professional!
Now on to bigger and (more confusing things).... SUSPENSION... my head is already spinning!!
Thanks again to everyone for the discussion and ideas on this, it is highly appreciated!!
WWRD99
New member
So I was going to post a pic of the lines I did on mine but absolutely cannot get anything to work on my laptop,,,I used 3/8 metal brake line, I buy it in bulk 50 ft coils, with the hydro hose quick connect ends....It's way over kill as the soft lines hooked to the cooler are good for 3000 psi...the push on connections are made with a normal double flare end then routed to the cooler on the radiator...having steel lines to the rad makes no issue of rubbing through plus I always go to far on stuff like this, it's fun.
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I'll try it on the mobile app!!
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
It worked!! The blue line is the hydro stuff then the obvious brake line tied together with a double flare and push on connectors.
Very nicely done!!! I wish I had that kind of confidence in routing and flaring hard line like.. Throughout out the whole project I was thinking it would so nice to have hard lines between the radiator and cooler.
Looks great!
WWRD99
New member
It is nice to have a hard line made up...it's not really needed by any means but I had the metal line already from a dodge truck rear brake line replacement so all I needed was the hydro hose and quick connects...if you get a chance pick up a double flare kit...try it out, check out youtube on how to use it...there really isn't much to it...the only line that can be a bit tricky is stainless...that stuff likes to crack...being able to make your own lines gives you a bunch more options on repair...even power steering lines...yeah you can make those too...save tons of money.
mesooohoppy
New member
I'm very happy with the setup, and personally I'd recommend not bypassing, unless you have an old/suspect radiator and are not willing to buy a new one (in which case I'd buy a new radiator before buying an aux cooler
so, correct me if im wrong, but arent there two major points to doing this external cooler swap:
1- better cooling via an external radiator
2- no possibility of pink milkshake if you bypass/cap the lower portion on the radiator?
based off the pictures in 346, it looks like the trans radiator itself is immersed in the coolant/water inside the radiator (for cooling the powerplant). please correct me if im wrong, but if im not, i would think damn near everyone with an auto 3rd gen would want to do this external trans cooler. what am i missing?
4Runner4Leon
Senior Member
Having the combined internal and external coolers gives you better cooling. But at the risk of the pink milkshake, if the internal cooler leaks.
If you have an old radiator, I'd bypass the internal cooler, or better yet, get a new radiator.
If you have a new(er) radiator, I'd use both cooolers, without bypassing the internal one.
If you have an old radiator, I'd bypass the internal cooler, or better yet, get a new radiator.
If you have a new(er) radiator, I'd use both cooolers, without bypassing the internal one.
jgue467
Senior Member
The first is always a good idea (extra cooling via external cooler).
But the 2nd may or may not be a good idea. Will towing be involved (and if so how much weight, what type/length grades and normal ambient temps)?
Besides 4runners many, many vehicles have 'immersed' tranny coolers within their regular engine radiators. The issue isn't the design (so much) but rather Age. Regardless of miles, Age gets Everything Eventually.
I experimented with only an external cooler for a while but in central temps summers (upwards of 85 days with temps over 100) while towing in stop/go and thru hilly terrain the trans temps would rise to 240+, not good.
So back to an 'immersed' cooler + added a 2350 CFM fan and now under the same conditions we're at 165-175, ahhhh.
So if the radiator is near 10 years, I'd replace it even if no signs of leakage, they're cheap, transmission are far from cheap, even a junkyard one.
Hope that helps. Luck and enjoy the runner. :cowboy:
mesooohoppy
New member
thank you, for the response you two, i appreciate it. i will not be towing anything, ever. IMO, these don't make enough power to tow anything other than whats in the vehicle and maybe a 2-4 bike rack (i will eventually get a hitch mounted rack for 2 bikes).
here is my dilemma; reliability is my #1 concern when it comes to my 4runner. if the pink milkshake issue is such a catastrophic problem, it makes zero sense to me why someone would do a modification such as an external cooler, just to have it still routed through the bottom of the radiator (even if its new). im going to be brutally honest, im not going to keep track of when i bought my radiator. i usually end up looking at the rad cap and squeeze the hoses every time my hood gets popped. i would eventually like to upgrade to a thicker radiator down the line because i live where it gets over 100 in the summer, which im assuming wouldnt have a trans cooler (ive looked for OE dual row 3rd gen rads and cant find em), so an external cooler is basically a must for me at this point.
another thing that pops in my head is what if you buy a new OE-style or OEM radiator at the same time you are installing the external cooler (smart idea, no fault there); but what if there is a defect in the radiator? very unlikely, but all of that hard earned money you just spent (and time) was all for nothing AND on top of buying a new radiator, you now have to buy a new trans.
so, i guess the million dollar question for me is, for someone who rarely ever sits in traffic (not usually more than 20 minutes, maybe once every two weeks), is a trans cooler, such as B&M 70268, enough to cool my trans for summers? i live an hour east of Sacramento, so it gets hot, but not like AZ hot. the car gets driven 4 miles M-F to sit at a bus stop. all the real driving is on the weekends up in the mountains and the occasional road trip once or twice a year.
here is my dilemma; reliability is my #1 concern when it comes to my 4runner. if the pink milkshake issue is such a catastrophic problem, it makes zero sense to me why someone would do a modification such as an external cooler, just to have it still routed through the bottom of the radiator (even if its new). im going to be brutally honest, im not going to keep track of when i bought my radiator. i usually end up looking at the rad cap and squeeze the hoses every time my hood gets popped. i would eventually like to upgrade to a thicker radiator down the line because i live where it gets over 100 in the summer, which im assuming wouldnt have a trans cooler (ive looked for OE dual row 3rd gen rads and cant find em), so an external cooler is basically a must for me at this point.
another thing that pops in my head is what if you buy a new OE-style or OEM radiator at the same time you are installing the external cooler (smart idea, no fault there); but what if there is a defect in the radiator? very unlikely, but all of that hard earned money you just spent (and time) was all for nothing AND on top of buying a new radiator, you now have to buy a new trans.
so, i guess the million dollar question for me is, for someone who rarely ever sits in traffic (not usually more than 20 minutes, maybe once every two weeks), is a trans cooler, such as B&M 70268, enough to cool my trans for summers? i live an hour east of Sacramento, so it gets hot, but not like AZ hot. the car gets driven 4 miles M-F to sit at a bus stop. all the real driving is on the weekends up in the mountains and the occasional road trip once or twice a year.
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phattyduck
Elite Member
Use the OE Toyota system then. Replace your radiator (OEM), and keep up on coolant changes (3 years, with Toyota red, I think?) and you won't have any problems for the next 20+ years. The pink milkshake problems comes from corrosion - keep the road salt off the exterior of the radiator (not a problem in Sacramento) and keep the coolant fresh (up to you and previous owners) and you will never have a problem.
Others may disagree... but I have personally opened up my 18 year old (at the time) radiator to check for problems (when I replaced it) and there was 0 internal corrosion. The 4Runner was always in my family and was decently taken care of California truck...
It isn't like leaks and chaffed hoses never happen with aftermarket coolers...
If you need EXTRA cooling - that's where external coolers come into play. Or, if you are lazy and don't want to replace 20 year old components on your truck (a radiator that might spring a coolant leak anytime now)... but you want reliability, right?
-Charlie
mesooohoppy
New member
my end goal is to eliminate the possibility of the pink milkshake all together. i want zero chance of it happening, immaculate radiator interior or not. i think the added cooling from a external trans cooler is a huge bonus. i would like to put a trans temp gauge in the cabin for when i am driving so i can monitor temps as needed (and also give me a heads up if something is going wrong, via elevated trans temps). it seems like a win win for me. unless im missing something?
i did do some more reading over the last few hours and it seems like it comes down to 2 things that cause this: (1)corrosion from areas where it snows heavily and (2)maintenance not being done to the cooling system(s).
1: it snows where i live, but not enough for them to salt the roads. where we go play in the snow, i believe they salt the roads, or at least the main roads we use to get in and out out of other side roads/trails. im not super worried about this
2: my t4r has 237k. before i bought it from a used car dealer, i called a local toyota dealer and had them look up the service history via the vin. the lady was only able to help me so much, but she did say there were a lot of service records for this car (but couldnt give me specifics). i havent looked inside the radiator yet, i will try to do it tonight after the car cools down but no promises as i need to trim inner fender wells.
i did some searching and it looks like there are reputable dual core aftermarket rads. this is what i will likely end up buying. it just makes more sense to me to improve this cooling system, rather than buy a nice new dual core all aluminum rad and still have the potential for a milkshake issue. yes im sure im overthinking this, but ive seen enough of these milkshake threads to know i dont want to drop a trans because of a radiator failing that i could have prevented in the first place.
i did do some more reading over the last few hours and it seems like it comes down to 2 things that cause this: (1)corrosion from areas where it snows heavily and (2)maintenance not being done to the cooling system(s).
1: it snows where i live, but not enough for them to salt the roads. where we go play in the snow, i believe they salt the roads, or at least the main roads we use to get in and out out of other side roads/trails. im not super worried about this
2: my t4r has 237k. before i bought it from a used car dealer, i called a local toyota dealer and had them look up the service history via the vin. the lady was only able to help me so much, but she did say there were a lot of service records for this car (but couldnt give me specifics). i havent looked inside the radiator yet, i will try to do it tonight after the car cools down but no promises as i need to trim inner fender wells.
i did some searching and it looks like there are reputable dual core aftermarket rads. this is what i will likely end up buying. it just makes more sense to me to improve this cooling system, rather than buy a nice new dual core all aluminum rad and still have the potential for a milkshake issue. yes im sure im overthinking this, but ive seen enough of these milkshake threads to know i dont want to drop a trans because of a radiator failing that i could have prevented in the first place.
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