Sitting here drinking coffee I had a thought come to me that may be relevant to people who read this thread in the future perhaps trying to decide on a suspension system.
I’ve never personally bought the super high end shocks on anything. Truck, car, snowmobile etc. but I’ve always had the better than average equipment.
One thing we tan into on snowmobiles for a long time was everyone wanting to run fox air shocks. Neat idea, but a bear to manage spring rates due to the extremely progressive nature of an air sprung shock, not to mention highly temperature sensitive. It was always hard to dial in. Either way too much rate for the pogo stick effect, or to little and it was boaty squishy city.
Another friend of mine spends a hilariously large sum regularly (well, technically expenses since he has a recreational vehicle business, but the money is never free…..) on shocks for sleds. The last super boojie set of raptors were so dang soft, it was like driving a jet ski around. Almost hard to ride really. Maybe about 10 years ago another friend has a fancy zbros setup. I forget if they were Elkas or what kind, but It was like riding on a half aired up raft. Super soggy, no confidence, and it wanted to drive into every tree well there was. Again, super Gucci with far too little rate and control.
Why does any of this even matter and what do sleds have to do with 4runners….. Rate is rate, and ride height is ride height.
I think there are applications that a custom valved system can absolutely dominate when the system is tuned properly especially in long travel systems. In a “longer” than stock travel system you have more head (travelroom to work with prior to being maxed out on travel.
The calling card of high end suspension systems seems to be comfort and ride quality which usually equates into lower rates to get there. The side effect of all that in my observations tends to be a very soft ride like arrangement that tends to bottom out very quickly when used in a stockish travel configuration.
I know that the purists will argue that digressive systems aren’t as good as a linear or progressive system in an all out application, and I’ll agree with them there. But I would argue assuming on stockish geometry/travel without going into the realm of long travel anything regardless of the vehicle type, that digressive fit the bill perfectly.
If you go look at any big travel systems whether it’s on a Can-Am or a trophy truck, the one commonality that seems to always be the case is multiple spring rates in their spring stacks. Sure in a multi rate system 2 foot long setup you can do all kinds of cool things. Bit in a single rate rather stockish system it’s too easy to go to far.
I’ve seen several king equipped rigs around town and it’s always the same. Just watch them go through an intersection or go around a corner. They always eat up half of the travel going through a storm gutter, or look like they’re going to roll over around a corner. Obviously I don’t know the full set up, they could have swaybar‘s unhooked, and not enough rate. Just a very casual observation that I’ve seen probably four or five times in the last year now while gassing up my work truck at the busiest intersection on town.
Short story long, I think it’s really important to evaluate what you’re trying to accomplish and what matters most. Obviously those blue shocks are absolutely sexy as hell. I think it’s just important to understand what you’re getting into so that you hopefully don’t end up disappointed or have a lot of drama to get them calibrated properly. It seems like the industry is trending toward all of this super off-road capable stuff that gets tuned for a street drive to maintain compliance on speed bumps which is a bit silly in my opinion. I realize that’s where 99% of the vehicles will live always, but then everybody gets stuck in that mindset.
I’ve never personally valved or rebuilt a set of shocks ever in my life, but I do understand the system, how it works, and how they’re built. If you’re in a high-performance application with a lot of travel, I think the custom systems make all the sense in the world assuming you’re willing to spend the time to get them correct. You’ll probably want more than one set of shocks around to do that well unless you can valve them yourself.
If you’re looking for a one and done OEM level of execution and for them to last a long time, I think some of the custom valved systems out there are not what a guy needs.
Look at the Ford raptor. I love seeing all these raptors around town and I highly doubt any of those shocks are getting service on the interval they’re supposed to be at. Look it up, you’ll be very surprised when you see what the interval is. Lots of guys stating online that they had low charge pressures at the 15-20k mile mark…..
Just some food for thought on a trip deep into the weeds.
Really my main issue is that, to me, all of the shocks I've tried for 3rd gens are horrible. They all handle like like sports cars to me.
And when I say sports car, I mean they travel very little, they're extremely firm, and keep the wheels planted hardcore. Where is, to me, off-road trucks should be very plush and cushiony. I mean if you're going off road around trails you're going to be hitting a lot of bumps and uneven terrain, those bumps should not feel like concrete, I mean it's just not even enjoyable...
I specifically bought the Kings because everybody said that they were the best ride, and at this point I wasn't necessarily looking for the best but just looking for something that wasn't shit.
Tundra 5100 are entirely too soft
Third gen 5100s are too firm and also too short
Nitro chargers are way too firm
And so far my rear kings are the stiffest shocks I've ever felt.
Now the front kings are a different story, they actually feel pretty good and I think they would be perfect if I had 550 lb coils versus 600, or just some additional weight I guess.
But the rear shocks? I mean good God. I had gone by a few places that sold King shocks because I was curious if they had ever encountered them on a third gen 4Runner. I did find a shop where the guy had worked on one before although it had been many months. He actually walked out with me and jumped up on the rear bumper to shake the truck up and down and immediately was disgusted. "These are stiff as f***, holy shit" where the words that came out of his mouth.
And I can't remember if anyone asked, but I did find a place that let out some of the nitrogen and as far as we could tell it made absolutely no difference.
See when the front Kings hit a bump or drop into a hole or something like that it's firm but is cushioned, it's almost perfect honestly. When the rear wheels hit anything or drop into a hole I mean it's literally like a bomb going off. BAM.
There is a parking lot close to my house that has a speed bump that is laid out diagonally, as in your front right wheel will go over it completely before the left one touches it. It's actually kind of fun because each wheel walks over at one at a time... So with the front, they actually do their thing and there's very little body movement... But as soon as the rears make contact it immediately slams the truck over to one side. I mean I'm not kidding when I say they have no give.
The best way I can describe it is to imagine that you only had a half inch of travel, and as soon as you used up that entire half of an inch you just slammed into the frame. It's stiff as ****.
