Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[Trob20]

And another hidden model breaks cover, Toyota managed to avoid leaks on this one, interesting.

Something New is Just Around the Corner

Toyota Crown SUV Is Coming to the U.S., Latest Teaser Suggests

Toyota is trying to compete in every type of vehicle segment there is. This seems to be an outback/CX-50 competitor, but I'd imagine more upscale and pricing aligned with the crown sedan. Not sure how Toyota can manage to market all of the vehicles they have.

 

[Trob20]

On a 4runner related note, if any of you regularly watch the NFL, you probably have the seen the Outlast Outlive ad campaign toyota is running with all of the BOF vehicles driving in extreme weather. The ad campaign is set to run until Feb 2024, so I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota uses this campaign to tease and eventually reveal the new 4runner assuming it's still set to be revealed early 2024.

403 Forbidden

 

[Jetboy]

And another hidden model breaks cover, Toyota managed to avoid leaks on this one, interesting.

Something New is Just Around the Corner

Toyota Crown SUV Is Coming to the U.S., Latest Teaser Suggests

I don't understand this at all. Unless it replaces the Venza. How many midsize CUVs can Toyota make for the same segment? They already have the Rav4, Venza, NX, RX, Highlander, and BZ4X. Current Crown and Venza are damn near identical other than the swift back vs CUV body style difference. If you make the Crown a CUV - it's a Venza.

And the 2022 Crown SUV in japan is literally a highlander with a different name on it.

So if this is a crown:

And this is a sedan:

And a Venza:

I'm not sure I understand the point of all 3 of these side by side. They're all the same car.

 

[AZ Craig]

I'm not sure I understand the point of all 3 of these side by side. They're all the same car.

The Venza is a compact though while I imagine the Crown (assuming it lines up pretty closely with the sedan) is much more of a traditional midsize (the sedan is around 10 inches longer than the Venza).

Look at a brand like BMW with the X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, X7 and the gran turismo hatch versions of the 2 and 4 (which could all be cross shopped versus their cars potentially).

Much as the Venza is an up-market, hybrid-only relative of the RAV4, it would seem to me the Crown would kind of do the same thing versus the Highlander (and without the pitifully small third row of the standard Highlander).

Considering Toyota seems to be able to sell every Highlander, Grand Highlander and RAV4 it can make for the US market... Hey, why not!

Arguably the more interesting thing would be if a vehicle like the Crown starts to cannibalize the Lexus offerings (as I'm sure some people could cross shop a NX hybrid versus a Venza at times).

 

[Jetboy]

I guess the crown suv may be the equivalent to the highlander what the Venza is to the Rav4? Crown sedan is 112" wb. Highlander is also 112. Venza is identical to the rav4 at 106.

I think it may start to cannibalize sales from the RX that's also identical wheelbase at 112.

Is there going to be a Grand Highlander model that somehow squeezes between the platinum GH and the Lexus TX?


The only way these mid models make sense to me is if they were differentiated by all being only PHEV and EV models vs the ICE/Hybrid Rav/Highlander/GH. But that doesn't appear to be the case. It's just a third model in each size despite the two existing models overlapping in price and content already. I suppose we could look at the LC250 that way - if the 4Runner has the same 112" wheelbase as the LC250 and the LC300/LX600 there ends up with 4 or more vehicles that are functionally identical in size and overlapping in price and content. I'm not sure why it makes sense, but I guess Toyota wants more nameplates on the lot.

 

[gomiami]

I don't understand this at all. Unless it replaces the Venza. How many midsize CUVs can Toyota make for the same segment? They already have the Rav4, Venza, NX, RX, Highlander, and BZ4X. Current Crown and Venza are damn near identical other than the swift back vs CUV body style difference. If you make the Crown a CUV - it's a Venza.

And the 2022 Crown SUV in japan is literally a highlander with a different name on it.

So if this is a crown:

And this is a sedan:

And a Venza:

I'm not sure I understand the point of all 3 of these side by side. They're all the same car.

I'm right there with you. Offering variations of the same theme makes no sense to me. I get having a "standard" and "luxury" version of the same basic ride (Grand Highlander/Lexus TX) but this proliferation of new models is becoming comical.

Reminds me back in the day when someone would have a hard time choosing between a Plymouth Voyager, Chrysler Town and Country and a Dodge Caravan. Dude, they're all the same.

 

[phillyd2]

Reminds me back in the day when someone would have a hard time choosing between a Plymouth Voyager, Chrysler Town and Country and a Dodge Caravan. Dude, they're all the same.

Unless there was no None Of The Above option it wasn’t really that hard of a choice. :

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Unless there was no None Of The Above option it wasn’t really that hard of a choice. :

Well, we always had the choice of the Astrovan or Aerostar, for those of us who knew how bad the Dodge quality was back then, of course, nothing much has changed, after how many owners?

 

[mscot]

What I find more fascinating is that every toyota dealer lot here is void of new cars. They're basically used car lots at this point.
Toyota can release all the models they want and it won't make a damn if they can't put them on the lot.

 

[bluebullet]

What I find more fascinating is that every toyota dealer lot here is void of new cars. They're basically used car lots at this point.
Toyota can release all the models they want and it won't make a damn if they can't put them on the lot.

In many cases new Toyotas are already sold before delivery to the dealership. It's a different world for now...

 

[balong48]

What I find more fascinating is that every toyota dealer lot here is void of new cars. They're basically used car lots at this point.
Toyota can release all the models they want and it won't make a damn if they can't put them on the lot.

Dealers by me have been starting to get more new inventory on the lots. One has 16 new on the lot, the other 32. That's been the most in a while. Discounts have returned as sales have slowed. Even some Grand Highlanders have discounts.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I don't understand this at all.

But wait, there's more...

#toyota #jms2023 #landcruiser #epu

 

[AZ Craig]

I guess the crown suv may be the equivalent to the highlander what the Venza is to the Rav4? Crown sedan is 112" wb. Highlander is also 112. Venza is identical to the rav4 at 106.

I think it may start to cannibalize sales from the RX that's also identical wheelbase at 112.

Is there going to be a Grand Highlander model that somehow squeezes between the platinum GH and the Lexus TX?

To be honest, I don't disagree with you and definitely think it could get cross shopped with the RX (and may be a better deal in a lot of ways when you consider the 500H is a $70K+ vehicle).

 

[AZ Craig]

Dealers by me have been starting to get more new inventory on the lots. One has 16 new on the lot, the other 32. That's been the most in a while. Discounts have returned as sales have slowed. Even some Grand Highlanders have discounts.

Definitely seems to be highly dealer and market dependent. In Phoenix right now, Grand Highlanders continue to be very tough to get your hands on for instance.

Avondale Toyota whom I've bought from twice (and is massive) now shows an inventory of 908 cars. That includes things in transit or already accounted for though. A quick sanity check of their available inventory though shows 34/44 Highlanders available for instance (versus 0/18 Grands).

Only 6 (!) of their 120 4Runners are currently accounted for though. It seems like they're bloated on 2023 Tacomas now too with the model year changeover coming out.

 

[balong48]

Definitely seems to be highly dealer and market dependent. In Phoenix right now, Grand Highlanders continue to be very tough to get your hands on for instance.

Avondale Toyota whom I've bought from twice (and is massive) now shows an inventory of 908 cars. That includes things in transit or already accounted for though. A quick sanity check of their available inventory though shows 34/44 Highlanders available for instance (versus 0/18 Grands).

Only 6 (!) of their 120 4Runners are currently accounted for though. It seems like they're bloated on 2023 Tacomas now too with the model year changeover coming out.

Yeah I just counted only what was confirmed on the lot with pictures. Overall allocations were at 170 for the dealer with 16 and 190 for the dealer with 32. So 10% and 17%, respectively, actually at the dealership.

There’s a third here too in northwest Indiana that I forgot to look at. I pretty much only look at the two I counted, since I refuse to do business with the third one (Bosak Toyota in Chesterton). I also refuse to do business with one (Team Toyota) of the two I counted but still look since they’re sister dealerships and can sorta trade inventory. I don’t understand how two dealerships under the same umbrella can have drastically different experiences but it is what it is lol. Toyota of Merrillville is my go to around here, my family has done a lot of business with them and they’ve been great to work with even from the very first car we purchased from them.

 

[5thToy]

What I find more fascinating is that every toyota dealer lot here is void of new cars. They're basically used car lots at this point.
Toyota can release all the models they want and it won't make a damn if they can't put them on the lot.

I'm not sure it will ever go back to pre-pandemic conditions of dealer lots packed with new cars. Not because OEMs are unable to fill dealer lots but because the model has changed.

Perceived scarcity keeps ASP up and profits high while dealerships then don't have to finance large inventory.

 

[gomiami]

I'm not sure it will ever go back to pre-pandemic conditions of dealer lots packed with new cars. Not because OEMs are unable to fill dealer lots but because the model has changed.

Perceived scarcity keeps ASP up and profits high while dealerships then don't have to finance large inventory.

This perceived scarcity game only works if every dealership in a metropolitan area is using the same strategy. As soon as one dealership decides to go back to the full lots/higher volume/lower profit per unit model, the ones playing the perceived scarcity game will lose.

IMHO, people would rather choose from a selection on the lot as opposed to waiting months. A dealer wouldn't even have to offer a lower price. What they would lose in inventory finance expenses, they would make up for in larger volume sales.

Sooner or later this current system will break down.

 

[5thToy]

This perceived scarcity game only works if every dealership in a metropolitan area is using the same strategy. As soon as one dealership decides to go back to the full lots/higher volume/lower profit per unit model, the ones playing the perceived scarcity game will lose.

IMHO, people would rather choose from a selection on the lot as opposed to waiting months. A dealer wouldn't even have to offer a lower price. What they would lose in inventory finance expenses, they would make up for in larger volume sales.

Sooner or later this current system will break down.

You may very well be right. We will see.

I think the current dealer model is in the process of breaking down with the transition to EVs. Tesla got it started with sales direct.

The dealer network is going to struggle with making a large percentage of profits off of parts and service in a world where there are fewer spare parts and service requirements for EVs while they are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars per dealer to upgrade service bays and train technicians to work on them. The math doesn't work and they are already opting out in large numbers.

 

[bluebullet]

This perceived scarcity game only works if every dealership in a metropolitan area is using the same strategy. As soon as one dealership decides to go back to the full lots/higher volume/lower profit per unit model, the ones playing the perceived scarcity game will lose.

IMHO, people would rather choose from a selection on the lot as opposed to waiting months. A dealer wouldn't even have to offer a lower price. What they would lose in inventory finance expenses, they would make up for in larger volume sales.

Sooner or later this current system will break down.

As soon as waiting lists disappear. Supply currently does not keep up with demand.

 

[AZ Craig]

I'm not sure it will ever go back to pre-pandemic conditions of dealer lots packed with new cars. Not because OEMs are unable to fill dealer lots but because the model has changed.

Perceived scarcity keeps ASP up and profits high while dealerships then don't have to finance large inventory.

Go visit your neighborhood Jeep dealership. Huge amounts of money on the hood of various models in stock. Alfa Romeo is another good example that apparently is discounting drastically below MSRP...

It more depends on the make in tandem with supply versus demand. There are VERY good deals to be had on some vehicles, especially EV and PHEV.