Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen
- Thread starter peter78
- Start date
I think that's area dependent. PHEVs in CO seem to require an order.
No clue about EVs as I'm not shopping for one but I suspect its roughly the same.
Probably due to the fact that Colorado throws heavy subsidies on top of the federal discounts. I remember seeing Colorado I think is 5th in terms of EV adoption with regards to market percentage by state as of 2023 (about 13%).
All you can get out of it in Arizona is the federal savings. On top of that, electrics are losing HOV lane access in 2025 and already lost their exemption from VLT (which could easily save you $500+ a year).
Basically the only reason to have one here is that our electricity is still crazy cheap, especially on time of use plans (I actually get power as low as 4.33 cents per KWH).
I don't understand this at all. Unless it replaces the Venza. How many midsize CUVs can Toyota make for the same segment? They already have the Rav4, Venza, NX, RX, Highlander, and BZ4X. Current Crown and Venza are damn near identical other than the swift back vs CUV body style difference. If you make the Crown a CUV - it's a Venza.
And the 2022 Crown SUV in japan is literally a highlander with a different name on it.
So if this is a crown:
And this is a sedan:
And a Venza:
I'm not sure I understand the point of all 3 of these side by side. They're all the same car.
Crown Sport isn't planned to come to the US. Grand Highlander is completely cannibalizing the Highlander and seems to be a smashing hit. Venza had a big first year but the sales numbers have fallen pretty hard. Crown sedan isn't selling well.
JMO, I can see the Highlander nameplate going away after '24 and '25 model years completely being replaced by the Grand Highlander. Some newer low cost GH trims slip in below to bring the starting price down a little. I can see the Venza getting dropped for the Crown Estate because it will be slightly bigger, more premium, and while filling the size gap left by the Highlander. Rear passenger crash testing is now a thing and a lot of crossovers are struggling on the tests so bigger is better. Plus, we likely have a new Rav4 coming in the next 18 months which could honestly use a slight size bump (mostly packaging changes and maybe a more squared off cargo area). The Crown sedan might just die off completely with a true top trim Camry taking its place (AWD, hybrid, PHEV, etc).
TexasFunRunner
New member
JMO, it's not going anywhere, why?
Some people like the ease of driving a smaller car.
Some people don't want to drive a bus.
Some people like better turning radius.
Some people like easier parking.
Some people, reasons...
To be competitive with other brands offering multiple model sizes.
And, the Grand Highlander is just the shiny new toy for 2023, so naturally there will be strong demand, for now.
2024 Toyota Grand Highlander/Dimensions
201″ L x 78″ W x 70″ H
2024 Toyota Highlander/Dimensions
195-197″ L x 76″ W x 68″ H
2024 Toyota RAV4/Dimensions
181-182″ L x 73″ W x 67-69″ H
Last edited:
MAST4R
New member
I just happened to run the numbers cause we are looking at adding a vehicle to our 4Runner and Subaru Tribeca. Hopefully in a couple years I will get a Tacoma or Land Cruiser or perhaps a 6th gen 4Runner to replace the Tribeca. But the third vehicle needs to be as economical to run as possible without breaking the bank on initial capital expenditure.
My 4Runner or wife's Tribeca: 4-4.25 miles per $
A regular Prius hybrid: 13.25 miles per gallon.
A Tesla 3 or Subaru Solterra (a unicorn): 18-18.5 miles to the $.
The Solterra is far behind Tesla, but fits the bill for us and dealers are already offering me 0.9% for 60 months AND 3,000 off on top of the 7,500 credit which makes it interesting.
I'd consider looking at the financials of a 24 to 36 month electric vehicle lease also where you are protected from hard to predict residual values. I personally think a Solterra will crater in the used market due to the small battery and relatively slow charging speed. That being said, if you plan on buying it to hold it, it may not matter...
Assuming about 1000 miles a month being put on the electric, you already are potentially ahead about $150 a month versus gasoline costs for a vehicle like the 4Runner or Tribeca. And that's not factoring in mileage related deprecation and wear and tear.
I don't think a 3rd vehicle could ever really "save" you money in this situation, but it definitely could get pretty close to break-even (and has other factors in play that may make it make sense).
balong48
New member
Can’t leave out the ever increasing cost of car insurance. I’m paying $400 more a year in car insurance and my wife and I have never had an accident or any tickets.
Unfortunately true. One more thing working against a third vehicle ever "saving" you money per-say.
MAST4R
New member
I don't remember how I worded myself, but while there is a chance my son and I could share the 4R in 2024-5, there is a strong possibility we will need 3 vehicles between wife, him, and me.
That makes complete sense then. I'll probably swap my 2020 4Runner for a GX550, LC or 6th gen at some point around 2025 or 2026. After that, I figure that'll be held until my youngest is driving in 2033 (God, it's scary writing that, haha). Definitely would go up to 3 cars in the household by then if we haven't!
Jetboy
New member
1st gen Leaf is the best new car driver vehicle according to my friends with kids learning to drive. It's not cool. It's not fast. It's safe. It's cheap. And you can't go very far. Haha.
I think there's a very real chance my kids will never need to learn to drive. I think fully autonomous self driving cars will be common in 10 years. I'll still teach them, but I'd expect by that point one of our cars will be capable of driving for at least 2 of us by self driving back and forth. It's an odd think to think about. But I think it'll happen in that time frame.
I think there's a very real chance my kids will never need to learn to drive. I think fully autonomous self driving cars will be common in 10 years. I'll still teach them, but I'd expect by that point one of our cars will be capable of driving for at least 2 of us by self driving back and forth. It's an odd think to think about. But I think it'll happen in that time frame.
Another good option would be a late model previous generation Prius. One of the slowest things on the road, but reliable with great gas mileage. Generally run to 200K+ miles with minimal drama also.
Of course, if you needed to split time driving it with your kid, would be a penalty box.
I've been in the tech industry for about 15 years now and I actually would be extremely surprised if you see autonomous vehicles take over within 10 years. There are so many problems with them still and generally speaking they do best in fair weather climates due to how utterly sensitive their sensors are all. Notice nobody has been testing them in a place that gets anything resembling winter weather in the US...
It's all fun and games until your Tesla plows into the back of a stopped emergency vehicle
.
Jetboy
New member
Another good option would be a late model previous generation Prius. One of the slowest things on the road, but reliable with great gas mileage. Generally run to 200K+ miles with minimal drama also.
Of course, if you needed to split time driving it with your kid, would be a penalty box.
I've been in the tech industry for about 15 years now and I actually would be extremely surprised if you see autonomous vehicles take over within 10 years. There are so many problems with them still and generally speaking they do best in fair weather climates due to how utterly sensitive their sensors are all. Notice nobody has been testing them in a place that gets anything resembling winter weather in the US...
It's all fun and games until your Tesla plows into the back of a stopped emergency vehicle
I did the quick calculation of the resolving power of the cameras Tesla uses at least 5 years ago and concluded that there was no plausible way that Tesla could do full self driving with the hardware they were/are(?) using. No matter how good the software is, the cameras lack the resolving power to even identify the size and motion of items at the distance then need to for safe self driving in typical conditions. That was a pretty simple first principle look at the system to evaluate whether it's even plausible. I say no. The hardware isn't capable with small aperture low resolution cameras.
What's crazy to me about it is that tesla didn't even spread out the forward facing cameras. Just moving them out to the corners of the windshield for binocular vision could have dramatically improved the potential for identifying objects, motion, scale, etc and they didn't do it. This is pretty basic optics 101 to me. Either they have some magic I don't see, or they just saved a buck or two per car and lost a ton of hardware potential utility.
I'm not sure it'll be Tesla. I've driven a few Tesla's with autopilot and FSD beta. I wouldn't bet my life on it. But I do think some combination of high quality, high resolution, and faster frame rate cameras and lidar/radar will get there from some manufacturer. Even in most poor weather conditions.
TexasFunRunner
New member
10 years may be a little optimistic...
Fully Self-Driving Cars Are Decades Away, Autonomous Vehicle Boss Says
Jetboy
New member
Whatever man. Elon said next year!
FWIW Tesla's autopilot isn't the best rated version out there.
Ford, General Motors, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Toyota, and Volkswagen all ranked higher than Tesla’s by CR and other entities.
Which means I win the argument with my friend. Legacy manufacturers would figure out how to develop software long before Tesla figured out how to make good cars.
Ford, General Motors, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Toyota, and Volkswagen all ranked higher than Tesla’s by CR and other entities.
Which means I win the argument with my friend. Legacy manufacturers would figure out how to develop software long before Tesla figured out how to make good cars.
MAST4R
New member
Sorry, no. The whole point of TSLA, the investment, is fully autonomous driving.
AI starts with copious amounts of data--and no other automaker has anything resembling Tesla's. Nowhere close.
This is why TSLA the stock is not valued like traditional automakers and most analysts failed to grasp it before TSLA became profitable and many continue to fail today.
Automotive journals and CR's all have their agendas, mostly to sell as many clicks as they can. Besides, who knows what parameters they are using and how. What they say may be true at the moment and with respect to their specific parameters.
Rival C-suite guys have to talk themselves up and talk Tesla down. It is their job to make their companies look good and their rivals--not so good. Does not mean they are right.
On a funny note I finally discontinued my 10+ years of CR after I bought their #1 ranked Bosch dishwasher and my wife and I swear at it every day.
Last edited:
gomiami
Member
Sorry, no. The whole point of TSLA, the investment, is fully autonomous driving.
AI starts with copious amounts of data--and no other automaker has anything resembling Tesla's. Nowhere close.
This is why TSLA the stock is not valued like traditional automakers and most analysts failed to grasp it before TSLA became profitable and many continue to fail today.
Automotive journals and CR's all have their agendas, mostly to sell as many clicks as they can. Besides, who knows what parameters they are using and how. What they say may be true at the moment and with respect to their specific parameters.
Rival C-suite guys have to talk themselves up and talk Tesla down. It is their job to make their companies look good and their rivals--not so good. Does not mean they are right.
On a funny note I finally discontinued my 10+ years of CR after I bought their #1 ranked Bosch dishwasher and my wife and I swear at it every day.
lol, we did the CR drop when we bought the #1 vacuum cleaner (a Hoover) about 20 years ago. It was a piece of crap almost from the get-go. We still have it...it vacuums out our cars. Not exactly what we bought it for.
