Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[Jetboy]

I have no experience with towing a 4Runner (I don't have one) but I have a friend who owns one and has towed a S550 Mustang (which is the one I have). He has told me that the car sags and its pushing the towing capacity of the car. He said if you are going to tow it, don't go for long distances. His other car is a Tacoma and he says that the Tacoma is way more capable which shouldn't be a surprise. He uses an aluminum trailer which is ~1.7k lbs + the Mustang which is ~3,700 lbs.

My other car is a Scion tC and I am will be in the market next year for a new car. The redeeming quality of the 4Runner is that it has good resale value. I'd honestly buy the Lexus GX over the 4Runner for the V8, but it looks so ugly. I'd consider getting a 4th gen V8 but I really dig the 5th gen styling.

I agree that Toyota has fallen way behind compared to the Big 3 in the Truck/Cool SUV market. The Tundra is a step in the right direction, but I agree that it is lacking compared to the competition.

I agree that we should get something like the Twin Turbo V6 for the 4Runner, even if it was limited to the TRD PRO, I'd be fine. I am doubtful that we will see something very exciting, but one can only hope. I would buy a domestic but I always have problems with their cars. Even my Mustang I bought brand new with 2 miles on it has been back to the dealership more times than my tC in 6 years of ownership. First world problems I guess lol. I am planning on getting the TRD PRO so I guess if the 6th gen is really good I can just trade it in at a later time. I just really like the idea of having a capable car that I can take off-roading for fun and also take my other car (Mustang GT350) to the track. I like track racing but its expensive. Off-roading is alot cheaper and easier to get into.

4R rear springs are pretty soft. I have gone back and forth between coils and air helper springs and full air suspension with no coils (adapted from a GX460). Both options of adjustable rear air suspension work well for the sag issue. I've found I prefer the air/coil combo over pure air springs without some type of adjustable rear shock dampening. My 4R also has KDSS which helps with body control during towing.

Once you address the rear coil spring rates - the chassis really is a good towing platform for smaller trailers. The vehicle is heavy (unusually heavy considering its size). Brakes are big. And the rear suspension design is pretty good for towing. It really is just the "go" part that's lacking. I often find myself in 2nd gear up long passes with my a smallish travel trailer. The 1GR will give you power - but it doesn't like to do it and it has poor thermal efficiency at high load. So you'll suck down the fuel. I'd guess a supercharger helps if you wanted to go that route, but I haven't towed with a SC 5th gen, so I don't know.

I would just accept the GX styling for what it is and go that route. Cut the plastics off where you need and go play. Or if you're towing frequently, get something else. Any half ton truck will make towing a much nicer experience than the 4Runner unless you're only doing short trips.

 

[qs933]

Anyone else find it amusing that this discussion turned into a pi**ing match between an engineer and a physicist?

Just me?

 

[Blackwatch]

I think they both stayed at a holiday inn express last night.

 

[Anthony88]

Anywho.. I’m hoping for a panoramic sunroof with the roll down rear window to get more of that open air feel without having to go with a wrangler or bronco style roof

 

[Jetboy]

Anywho.. I’m hoping for a panoramic sunroof with the roll down rear window to get more of that open air feel without having to go with a wrangler or bronco style roof

I like the idea. But there's no option on the lc300. So I'd be kinda surprised to see it on the 4Runner. Would be really nice though. My friends venza roof is pretty great even though it doesn't open. I think it'd be cool to have sunroof designed to make access to the roof rack easy. Basically a walkable center console lid.

The complaint will be interference with the roof racks. I do think a better roof rack base would be more popular than a panoramic roof. Just give us back the old t-slot rails from the 3rd gen. We can take it from there. They could do both although I wouldn't hold my breath for either.

Another option that could be great is a walkable roof - no rack needed. Just a thick rhino liner type coating right on a reinforced roof and tie downs on the rails. You don't need a rack in the bed of a truck - why can't the roof be stamped out of a little heavier gauge steel or aluminum or ideally a composit panel to be strong enough for direct use?

 

[aemravan]

seems I have stumbled across an entire forum section of people speculating, dreaming, wishing and arguing over something that doesn't exist.. this is great lol.

I hear it is delayed because toyota is working on a turbo diesel powerplant with a locked front solid axle and is planning on rolling it out in 2024 under the Gazoo Racing brand.

am I doing it right?

 

[bluebullet]

Anyone else find it amusing that this discussion turned into a pi**ing match between an engineer and a physicist?

Just me?

Well, you know the old saying, "You can tell an engineer a mile off, but you can't tell 'em much else." I can say that cuz I was one.:hat:

 

[Jetboy]

seems I have stumbled across an entire forum section of people speculating, dreaming, wishing and arguing over something that doesn't exist.. this is great lol.

I hear it is delayed because toyota is working on a turbo diesel powerplant with a locked front solid axle and is planning on rolling it out in 2024 under the Gazoo Racing brand.

am I doing it right?

I think we're just bored. It's been 12 years with the same model. Daydreaming about something new and modern makes it feel a little less depressing when we see Ford throwing down a double locked, TT V6 with a 10 speed, low gearing, long travel, bronco on 37s. Jeep throwing a big V8 in the Wrangler with 35s and almost 1000 RTI. And Toyota basically is telling us they won't sell us a Land Cruiser without a Lexus badge and $100k price tag and then best we might get a turbo 4 cyl and auto headlights after 15 years. If we ask really nice they'll toss in a 6 speed transmission and some 32" tires for good measure.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I think we're just bored. It's been 12 years with the same model. Daydreaming about something new and modern makes it feel a little less depressing when we see Ford throwing down a double locked, TT V6 with a 10 speed, low gearing, long travel, bronco on 37s. Jeep throwing a big V8 in the Wrangler with 35s and almost 1000 RTI. And Toyota basically is telling us they won't sell us a Land Cruiser without a Lexus badge and $100k price tag and then best we might get a turbo 4 cyl and auto headlights after 15 years. If we ask really nice they'll toss in a 6 speed transmission and some 32" tires for good measure.

Have you found any other 4Runner forums with much traffic or posting activity that have any additional insight on the 6th gen 4Runner development? When I found this one a year ago it was the only one that even mentioned the 6th gen.

What about leak photos, any chance we will see any in the next year from Toyota? I've followed Ford releases and it's hilarious as they clearly stage "leak" photos and they magicaly appear on a dozen websites or forums within and hour of each other.

 

[5thToy]

Good this discussion has remained respectful. I can see why a Toyota program engineer might take criticism to heart and I also agree with a lot of Jetboy's perspective.

Many of us buy and appreciate the T4R platform because it is ancient (common to BOF models including Tundra). There are limits to loyalty. Personally, I don't recognize a generational gap between the 4Runner G4 and G5. My 2019 is a cosmetic variation of my 2003 with a bunch of bolt on emissions and electronic updates. The vehicle is coming up on 20 years old.

I had a 2006 Tundra for 10 years, last of the Gen 1s. I loved that truck. Still, I have to agree with Jetboy in that the new version is underwhelming (considering price vs. value) for a 15-year update.

 

[Jetboy]

Have you found any other 4Runner forums with much traffic or posting activity that have any additional insight on the 6th gen 4Runner development? When I found this one a year ago it was the only one that even mentioned the 6th gen.

What about leak photos, any chance we will see any in the next year from Toyota? I've followed Ford releases and it's hilarious as they clearly stage "leak" photos and they magicaly appear on a dozen websites or forums within and hour of each other.

No. Nothing different or better anyway. Carmaker1 is the most credible source. I don't recall many or any of his/her info being wrong. And that makes turbo 4 and a hybrid option only. And something called a "Land Cruiser" maybe coming later. But probably not a LC 300. The dealer's association told Toyota they want a land cruiser, but they don't want another LC 200 in top trim. So I'm not sure what we'll get if anything.

The LC 300 is only 2 inches longer and little wider than the 4runner. 4R is bigger in some interior dimensions already. If the 4runner grows again like it has the last two times, it'll be the same size as the LC 300 maybe bigger. Put the TT V6 and running gear from the LC in and it'll replace the lc300 pretty easily with a higher spec 4runner. I'm not sure anyone cares what the name of the model is.

 

[RPDBluemoon]

4R rear springs are pretty soft. I have gone back and forth between coils and air helper springs and full air suspension with no coils (adapted from a GX460). Both options of adjustable rear air suspension work well for the sag issue. I've found I prefer the air/coil combo over pure air springs without some type of adjustable rear shock dampening. My 4R also has KDSS which helps with body control during towing.

Once you address the rear coil spring rates - the chassis really is a good towing platform for smaller trailers. The vehicle is heavy (unusually heavy considering its size). Brakes are big. And the rear suspension design is pretty good for towing. It really is just the "go" part that's lacking. I often find myself in 2nd gear up long passes with my a smallish travel trailer. The 1GR will give you power - but it doesn't like to do it and it has poor thermal efficiency at high load. So you'll suck down the fuel. I'd guess a supercharger helps if you wanted to go that route, but I haven't towed with a SC 5th gen, so I don't know.

I would just accept the GX styling for what it is and go that route. Cut the plastics off where you need and go play. Or if you're towing frequently, get something else. Any half ton truck will make towing a much nicer experience than the 4Runner unless you're only doing short trips.

Wow thats interesting. Unfortunately, I am planning on getting the TRD PRO and just keep everything stock. Adding air ride and changing the coils seems like alot of work, and money invested that I'd just rather not deal with since the engine is also another point of contention.

Does the Tacoma have an issue with the 'go' part for towing too? he engine is a 3.5L NA V6, its not turbocharged or anything so I wonder why that wouldn't have issues since the 4Runner has an bigger V6 with more displacement. The guy I know who owns both said that he easily tows his Mustang with the Tacoma compared to the 4Runner.

As far as the GX thats a hard pass for me man, its just too ugly imo. I'd rather just get a Tacoma or the new Tundra at that point. I like the 4Runner because of the styling.

Also this is interesting 2022 Toyota Tundra Waitlist Extends Up To One And A Half Years

Seems like whenever the 6th does get revealed, it will be delayed for. I was thinking Toyota might push back the reveal but Idk, I feel like thats alot of lost money from them

 

[RPDBluemoon]

Good this discussion has remained respectful. I can see why a Toyota program engineer might take criticism to heart and I also agree with a lot of Jetboy's perspective.

Many of us buy and appreciate the T4R platform because it is ancient (common to BOF models including Tundra). There are limits to loyalty. Personally, I don't recognize a generational gap between the 4Runner G4 and G5. My 2019 is a cosmetic variation of my 2003 with a bunch of bolt on emissions and electronic updates. The vehicle is coming up on 20 years old.

I had a 2006 Tundra for 10 years, last of the Gen 1s. I loved that truck. Still, I have to agree with Jetboy in that the new version is underwhelming (considering price vs. value) for a 15-year update.

I agree. Could be looking too much into this but I feel like this is kinda going against Toyotas philosophy. If you look at the Consumer Reports. Toyota is leap years ahead of the Domestics, its not even close. A big part of that is that there are extremely conservative, they don't apply the latest and greatest tech to match the competition because those are fail points.

Historically they have always been late to the game, right? The domestics own the truck market and Ford is killing it by a longshot, in order for the Tundra to be truly completive Toyota would have to break that philosophy and implement new tech and features which affects reliability

 

[Jetboy]

Wow thats interesting. Unfortunately, I am planning on getting the TRD PRO and just keep everything stock. Adding air ride and changing the coils seems like alot of work, and money invested that I'd just rather not deal with since the engine is also another point of contention.

Does the Tacoma have an issue with the 'go' part for towing too? he engine is a 3.5L NA V6, its not turbocharged or anything so I wonder why that wouldn't have issues since the 4Runner has an bigger V6 with more displacement. The guy I know who owns both said that he easily tows his Mustang with the Tacoma compared to the 4Runner.

As far as the GX thats a hard pass for me man, its just too ugly imo. I'd rather just get a Tacoma or the new Tundra at that point. I like the 4Runner because of the styling.

Also this is interesting 2022 Toyota Tundra Waitlist Extends Up To One And A Half Years

Seems like whenever the 6th does get revealed, it will be delayed for. I was thinking Toyota might push back the reveal but Idk, I feel like thats alot of lost money from them

The air helper springs are only about $100 and takes about an hour or two to install if you have tools and are handy. They work with the original coils. That's the easiest towing upgrade. And incidentally what I like best despite having had a variety of different sets of air and coil springs. But it doesn't fix the power issue.

Tacoma is pretty similar towing. My parents have a 2020. The rear suspension is better and the tow hitch is a bit stronger. But the engine is similar to the 4runner and it's not impressive towing for either power or mpg. It's the classic Toyota problem lately. The engine is just too small for anything more than an empty truck. Add a trailer and 5-7k feet elevation and it struggles to maintain highway speed on any incline.

They'll both pull a 5k trailer safely and reliably. It's just won't be very enjoyable. I doubt the 2.4 turbo will meaningfully improve it. If you're on the fence take a test drive in the NX350 and then imagine doubling the weight. It's a fine engine. But it's not going to impress you with power. It's adequate for a 4500lb CUV. It's not really enough for pulling a large trailer on a regular basis. Typically Toyota has a lower power tune for the same engine in a Toyota brand. It's usually tuned if l for 87 octane vs 91. I'm not sure waiting for the next generation will get you much more unless we're wrong and it gets a bigger engine. It'll probably be a little better. Maybe a Sequoia is a better option? Or a used LX 570 if you can stomach 13mpg.

 

[qs933]

Also this is interesting 2022 Toyota Tundra Waitlist Extends Up To One And A Half Years

It's interesting, and sounds plausible given all the uncertainty in the industry, but keep in mind that the source for the Tundra article is the infamous unnamed salesperson at a Toyota dealership.

CarsDirect reports that the Tundra's waitlist ranges from four months to as long as one and a half years. That's according to a sales representative of Longo Toyota in Southern California.

Longo is a larger (the largest in the US?) Toyota dealership, so I'm sure they are as a good a source as any, but it still sounds like a "my sales guy gave me the scoops..." story.

Now, when's the next-gen Sequoia going to debut? If the Toyota fleet site is accurate, it had a very short MY '22 ordering window between May and August '21.

 

[RPDBluemoon]

The air helper springs are only about $100 and takes about an hour or two to install if you have tools and are handy. They work with the original coils. That's the easiest towing upgrade. And incidentally what I like best despite having had a variety of different sets of air and coil springs. But it doesn't fix the power issue.

Tacoma is pretty similar towing. My parents have a 2020. The rear suspension is better and the tow hitch is a bit stronger. But the engine is similar to the 4runner and it's not impressive towing for either power or mpg. It's the classic Toyota problem lately. The engine is just too small for anything more than an empty truck. Add a trailer and 5-7k feet elevation and it struggles to maintain highway speed on any incline.

They'll both pull a 5k trailer safely and reliably. It's just won't be very enjoyable. I doubt the 2.4 turbo will meaningfully improve it. If you're on the fence take a test drive in the NX350 and then imagine doubling the weight. It's a fine engine. But it's not going to impress you with power. It's adequate for a 4500lb CUV. It's not really enough for pulling a large trailer on a regular basis. Typically Toyota has a lower power tune for the same engine in a Toyota brand. It's usually tuned if l for 87 octane vs 91. I'm not sure waiting for the next generation will get you much more unless we're wrong and it gets a bigger engine. It'll probably be a little better. Maybe a Sequoia is a better option? Or a used LX 570 if you can stomach 13mpg.

Definitely not handy nor do I have the tools for it so I'd have to get someone to do it, but yeah just like you said I'd still have issues with the engine. I honestly don't plan on going to the track frequently. Maybe once every 2-3 months and that would be the only time I'd tow so I guess it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I live in Florida and have no plans to tow something up in the mountains lol so I should be good with the elevation part.

I did consider the Sequoia, but it doesn't have that much of a low ground clearance and wouldn't make for a good off-roader. The LX570 doesn't do it for me, it looks just as ugly as the GX. Really not a fan of the full size Lexus SUVs. The RX350 and new NX look pretty cool, but the other ones are just bad imo.

I know I am being picky right now, If I am going to spend that kind of money on a car I better get something that I really like. I was very patient and was able to get an ultra rare GT350 (its the Heritage Edition) and I absolutely love it and have an emotional bond with it. If I get something that I don't really like that I won't form that bond and really won't care (I am still a 'car guy')

Whats ironic about all of this talk about the 4Runner being so old and Toyota being underwhelming is that this entire website is old as hell and is a time machine of car forums back in the early 2000s. I have been on the Mustang forums and its a night and day difference compared to this one.

 

[Travel2]

I do some towing and that’d be a dealbreaker for me. These big vehicles with turbo fours (all brands) will not have a long life. Too much engine strain long term IMO.

I agree with above.

 

[Blackwatch]

I do some towing and that’d be a dealbreaker for me. These big vehicles with turbo fours (all brands) will not have a long life. Too much engine strain long term IMO.

I agree with above.

I think the next engine (2.4 turbo) is planned obsolescence. It will bridge a gap between the 4.0 and the all electric vehicles that are supposed to be coming in 7-10 years. The cafe numbers need to be met in Can/US and putting a 2.4t in will help the overall average. By the time these engines show their problems from use in a 4Runner they will be onto the prime version.
As far as I know Toyota doesn't put a turbo gas engine in the Hilux or Prado.

 

[Carmaker1]

I have stopped posting generally on forums going forward, but only do so now to correct myself.

New claims are coming out that the 4Runner will once again be redesigned for 2023 model year next year, as known from February 2020 to June 2021. Although I am skeptical of these claims, the sources of this recent information are not sketchy enough to be ignored. They seem just as credible.

My bigger question is, why any of my previous information has been misleading? I have seen 2024 in some ways, so it's conflicting information.

I can only wait and see, as I don't like asking too many questions to other professionals, not within my social circle or beholden to their own NDAs as well.

Secondly, Toyota have not made any announcements regarding TMMGT production for 4Runner, despite some charts listing it there for January 2024 start of production.

Sounds like Tahara will be producing this vehicle still, because TMMTX in Texas has not been announced as a production site either.

There are no spy shots of this alleged 2023 model, but it doesn't mean anything, as that can be manipulated for marketing purposes.

2024 Tacoma mules are running about, for both marketing and general testing purposes. (NOT PROTOTYPES)

Tundra program mules, first appeared on camera in January 2019, but no prototypes until December 2020. Generally it is ideal not to expose production styling test vehicles until 1 year out from market.

By now, you would expect to hearing and seeing something more tangible than just random guesses.

Not sure what's happening, stay tuned. Whatever the 2023 4Runner is, that's due for sale in October 2022 per scheduling. Just doesn't make sense for it to be a redesign.

 

[bigbwb]

I have stopped posting generally on forums going forward, but only do so now to correct myself.

New claims are coming out that the 4Runner will once again be redesigned for 2023 model year next year, as known from February 2020 to June 2021. Although I am skeptical of these claims, the sources of this recent information are not sketchy enough to be ignored. They seem just as credible.

My bigger question is, why any of my previous information has been misleading? I have seen 2024 in some ways, so it's conflicting information.

I can only wait and see, as I don't like asking too many questions to other professionals, not within my social circle or beholden to their own NDAs as well.

Secondly, Toyota have not made any announcements regarding TMMGT production for 4Runner, despite some charts listing it there for January 2024 start of production.

Sounds like Tahara will be producing this vehicle still, because TMMTX in Texas has not been announced as a production site either.

There are no spy shots of this alleged 2023 model, but it doesn't mean anything, as that can be manipulated for marketing purposes.

2024 Tacoma mules are running about, for both marketing and general testing purposes. (NOT PROTOTYPES)

Tundra program mules, first appeared on camera in January 2019, but no prototypes until December 2020. Generally it is ideal not to expose production styling test vehicles until 1 year out from market.

By now, you would expect to hearing and seeing something more tangible than just random guesses.

Not sure what's happening, stay tuned. Whatever the 2023 4Runner is, that's due for sale in October 2022 per scheduling. Just doesn't make sense for it to be a redesign.

Interesting! I appreciate you joining back in to share your insight. I was fearful of waiting too long for the 6th gen so I grabbed a 2022 GX460, coming soon!