Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

For me the PHEV is the ideal option. At least in Toyota's portfolio the performance is better, mpg is usually better, and MSRP is pretty reasonable if they ever actually build them. The number of trips per year that I would also take my crossover over 50 miles per day are relatively rare. And the PHEV would cover those uses. One of the challenges for most longer range PHEV owners I know is making sure to burn through a full tank of gas every 3 months or so to make sure it doesn't go bad in the tank.

I think the regular hybrid is a bit of a miss for towing. Not enough battery to flatten the mountains but almost all the weight. A 20kwh battery hybrid can flatten every pass in the USA highway system - probably a PHEV at that point. Full electric assist up the pass and the ability to regen the entire downhill run. It's just a matter of time for someone to finally develop them and produce in volume. I think the regular hybrid for a truck without a big enough battery for the mountains is pretty useless. And I'd also say EV trucks are pretty useless unless you're a fleet truck as a local contractor. For that - EV trucks are ideal. But for me - I would rather have no hybrid or a PHEV for a truck or SUV.

I do drive the RX on road trips, but most often drive the truck. With kids - midsize SUVs don't have enough room many times. Currently - living in Alaska - I'm probably 70-80% of the time pulling either a UTV or travel trailer for trips more than 50 miles away. But this isn't really normal situation where practically everything is 100+ miles away and I can drive for 20 hours and still be in the same state. Ugh. I need an airplane. If I were going to live here long term, no question - I'd buy one.

Yeah, maybe it's the specific vehicles I was looking at, but if a PHEV gets similar or better gas mileage than it's pure ICE counterpart along with the ability to run trips locally via electric, I'm all for it. Unfortunately the BMW X5 50e is not one of those. The RAV4 prime was always a pretty neat option in my opinion, but even there the 32 mile EPA range is mediocre at best. Something like the Prius prime with 44 miles or the BMW X5 50e (which I think is rated for 40) make a better case for them, but unless your commute is less than about 15 miles each way, there is a good chance you are not going to be able to do it on pure electric power (plus often driving those vehicles in electric only mode is super anemic).

I can get power here in Arizona now for 6 hours of the day at 4.3 cents a kilowatt hour. My "off peak" rate varies from 9.8 to 11.8 cents a kilowatt otherwise if I cannot charge purely in that 9 AM to 3 PM window (pilot plan due to the oversupply experienced by solar generation in Arizona during the day time with lack of ability to store it in batteries). With our gas lately being between about third and eighth most expensive in the US, electric is very tempting.

I completely get you about longer distance trips though. Arizona is funny since if you stay in the Phoenix metro you rarely drive more than maybe 60 to 90 miles in a day. Once you are traveling city to city in the west though, the distances get big really quickly. I think my issue is if I'm going to get a big comfortable vehicle like an X5, I want it to get the best possible gas mileage possible for distance driving when we are not just local. I'd rather have a pure EV run about to complement my "distance car."

Obviously, many of us cannot own a 3 or 4 deep fleet for personal travel though :).
 
Yeah, maybe it's the specific vehicles I was looking at, but if a PHEV gets similar or better gas mileage than it's pure ICE counterpart along with the ability to run trips locally via electric, I'm all for it. Unfortunately the BMW X5 50e is not one of those.

I'm confused by this. the 50e isn't an "either EV or ICE and that's it" situation. You can run it in hybrid mode and it will regenerate just like any other hybrid - it just has a larger battery to support the ICE.
People report anywhere up to 50 mpg in hybrid mode on the bimmer forums - which is twice the regular ICE 40i.
Sure you could run all EV until you drain the battery and then you're all ICE (for the most part, even that isn't 100% true) but why would you do that?
 
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And? Did they see the 2025 6th gen 4Runner?
I've heard from a source that Toyota shared images and full details with the dealers at the national dealers meeting about the 6th gen 4Runner. Of course there were strict precautions in place to avoid people taking cell phone photos. However, I was not able to get any further details.

Details of several other future models were shared, but I was not able to get any more detail on that either. It sounds like we will not have much more info leak out until after the Land Cruiser and Tacoma get launched, unless of course some dealership people trickle out some leaks.
 
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I'm confused by this. the 50e isn't an "either EV or ICE and that's it" situation. You can run it in hybrid mode and it will regenerate just like any other hybrid - it just has a larger battery to support the ICE.
People report anywhere up to 50 mpg in hybrid mode on the bimmer forums - which is twice the regular ICE 40i.
Sure you could run all EV until you drain the battery and then you're all ICE (for the most part, even that isn't 100% true) but why would you do that?

It's honestly a good question as the main EPA rating out there for PHEV's is the mpge number (which admittedly, the BMW X5 50e is pretty good on). I think that the battery is typically never truly "fully drained" (for one thing, regen would probably kick back some mileage), but it seems like once below some threshold value, you're highway mileage is definitely going to suffer.

I haven't seen a combined number for the 50e yet, but the 2023 45e was rated at 20 mpg combined. This compared to the 2023 40i at 23 mpg combined (and the 2024 40i at 25 mpg which must be due to some tweaks in the 2024 update).

Maybe I am over thinking it, but I'm not going to have a way to recharge a PHEV on any longer trips very easily I imagine.
 
It's honestly a good question as the main EPA rating out there for PHEV's is the mpge number (which admittedly, the BMW X5 50e is pretty good on). I think that the battery is typically never truly "fully drained" (for one thing, regen would probably kick back some mileage), but it seems like once below some threshold value, you're highway mileage is definitely going to suffer.

I haven't seen a combined number for the 50e yet, but the 2023 45e was rated at 20 mpg combined. This compared to the 2023 40i at 23 mpg combined (and the 2024 40i at 25 mpg which must be due to some tweaks in the 2024 update).

Maybe I am over thinking it, but I'm not going to have a way to recharge a PHEV on any longer trips very easily I imagine.

Finding the actual hybrid mpg for any of the phevs is near impossible for some reason, so you have to depend on what users are reporting on forums. I've been on Bimmerpost for about 6 months now reading up on the new 50e and overall mpg is in the high 30s for people not runnign sport mode - or so it appears to me.

You can charge PHEVs at any charging station with level 2 chargers. You will need an adapter to use a Tesla charger but those are less than $50. You can't use the superchargers.
 
Finding the actual hybrid mpg for any of the phevs is near impossible for some reason, so you have to depend on what users are reporting on forums. I've been on Bimmerpost for about 6 months now reading up on the new 50e and overall mpg is in the high 30s for people not runnign sport mode - or so it appears to me.

You can charge PHEVs at any charging station with level 2 chargers. You will need an adapter to use a Tesla charger but those are less than $50. You can't use the superchargers.

Perhaps it wouldn't actually be as bad as I'm worried then. It seems like PHEV is going to be HIGHLY use case oriented though, especially on a car like the 50e. I still feel like any longer road trip where you use it without any external charge on the battery is going to end up being a loser.

If you look into level 2 charging costs versus gas also, it's hard to say if you'd really be saving any money in that regard also if not charging at home. So yes, you definitely could recharge it with a level 2 charger if you had access to them on a vacation for instance, but I doubt you'd want to do this unless it was located somewhere like a hotel or a tourist attraction where you were spending most of the day.

To be honest, I'm also frustrated about the fact that BMW is not passing along the $7500 lease credit on the 50e due to the high demand on the car. If that was there as a capital cost reduction, it'd be a lot more tempting to take the plunge (and the risk on if it would really save money in the end). I've thought about giving the JGC 4xe a serious look since there is a ton of money on the hoods of them right now if you are willing to lease.
 
There's no way I will buy a mid-size SUV with a 4cylinder as the base of the hybrid. We have the Rav4 and, sure a PHEV will have a larger battery than our hybrid, but it's engine absolutely screams going up the passes here. B/c of this, all the Toy/Lex offerings are out, as is the JGC. Ok, I'll let us get back to complaining that there's not been a leak about the new T4R! :dizzy:
 
There's no way I will buy a mid-size SUV with a 4cylinder as the base of the hybrid. We have the Rav4 and, sure a PHEV will have a larger battery than our hybrid, but it's engine absolutely screams going up the passes here. B/c of this, all the Toy/Lex offerings are out, as is the JGC. Ok, I'll let us get back to complaining that there's not been a leak about the new T4R! :dizzy:

Comparing a RAV4 engine and a turbo-charged I4 (especially something with displacement closer to 2.4 or 2.5L) isn't that fair though :). My Disco Sport weighs about 600 pounds less than my 4Runner with just a touch more power out of it's 2.0T and it can blast up mountain grades compared to the 4.0L V6.

Now, if I was comparing it to a turbo I6 though... :)

And yes, when the hell is a 6th generation 4Runner leak going to happen already. I haven't had any new Toyota or Lexus product news in over a month now and I'm getting grumpy and fixating on BMWs.
 
hearing rumors that dealers got 6th gen MY25 briefing recently in vegas. any credence?
Not rumors, its fact, we have been discussing it for the last few pages.

I've heard from a source that Toyota shared images and full details with the dealers at the national dealers meeting about the 6th gen 4Runner. Of course there were strict precautions in place to avoid people taking cell phone photos. However, I was not able to get any further details.

Details of several other future models were shared, but I was not able to get any more detail on that either. It sounds like we will not have much more info leak out until after the Land Cruiser and Tacoma get launched, unless of course some dealership people trickle out some leaks.
 
I've heard from a source that Toyota shared images and full details with the dealers at the national dealers meeting about the 6th gen 4Runner. Of course there were strict precautions in place to avoid people taking cell phone photos. However, I was not able to get any further details.

Details of several other future models were shared, but I was not able to get any more detail on that either. It sounds like we will not have much more info leak out until after the Land Cruiser and Tacoma get launched, unless of course some dealership people trickle out some leaks.

:lol:
 
I believe last September the dealers were shown the LC250 and we had no leaks until the reveal in June so I'm assuming we will see the 6th gen 4R next June.
 
Does anyone else think "Land Hopper" is perhaps the worst vehicle name ever?

In other news, Lexus TX pricing is out. Fully loaded TX500h is about $76K. In line with a MDX Type-S and a huge value option versus similar vehicles from the Germans.
 
Does anyone else think "Land Hopper" is perhaps the worst vehicle name ever?

In other news, Lexus TX pricing is out. Fully loaded TX500h is about $76K. In line with a MDX Type-S and a huge value option versus similar vehicles from the Germans.
It sounds like maybe, hopefully, it's a Japanese name only?
 

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