Best speculation of a 2023 6th generation I have seen

[gomiami]

On the GX, are you jumping in on an initial 550 or grabbing one of the last 460s (honestly curious).

So without seeing a TX350 in the flesh yet, I'd tend to agree considering a lot of the 350s are pushing up over $60K. I'd argue a Hybrid Max Grand is a WAY better deal for what you are paying for than a TX350 (assuming you can actually get one at MSRP which may be tough). The TX350 doesn't seem like it's interior is much different than the Grand to be completely honest. Honestly, if the TX500H didn't have the birch/black two-tone interior, I don't think I'd be able to stomach even considering one. There are a bunch of things about that car like the adaptive dampers and the Lexus chasis tuning that make me think it'll be way better than the Grand Highlander dynamically, but perhaps I am over thinking it... If I didn't care about these things, I could definitely save money .

On the MDX, keep in mind that it's mroe like a $10K to $15K premium unless you're chasing a Type-S. A Honda Pilot Elite is about $54K now I think while an Acura MDX Advance (which is as loaded as you can get the non-Type S) tops out at $65K. Base is around $37K vs. $50K if I am not mistaken.

I'm not sure if the Type-S is really worth the money to be honest, but I just really like the overall packaging of it along with the fact that you can get some pretty crazy color and interior combos on it (like Azurite interior with Tiger Eye Pearl paint). I think physically it is one of the best looking 3 row vehicles on the road in the US personally. Maybe it won't drive like an X7, but it also doesn't look like a turd and cost $90K+.

My price comparison was going off the $75K Type S. For $75K, I'd buy two Hondas instead.

I don't believe you are over-thinking the differences between the TX500h and the Grand Highlander. I'm just not convinced it is worth as much of a premium as Toyota is pricing.

I am buying the GX460. Here in my area, the bench seat configuration is almost a unicorn. Every dealership in a four state area is being allocated Captain's Chairs, which is a non-starter for me. Lexus of Omaha contacted me a couple of weeks ago saying they were allocated ONE premium with bench seat, gave me a nice discount and I took it. It'll be one of the last 460s to arrive stateside in mid-December.

I didn't like aspects of the new 550 (like the interior...seems to be a Lexus pattern.) I liked how Toyota decided to turn the GX back into a true off-roader but I would never buy the first year of a production run, I wanted the V8 and the pricing structure is crazy. The real off-road GX550 trims will cost almost $80K.

I plan to convert my 460 back to an international Prado. I'll live with the silly front grille and running boards during the factory warranty and then will start cutting away.

 

[phillyd2]

Regardless of the pros / cons of either, the GX and TX are such completely different vehicles with completely different capabilities that it's amazing anyone would seriously compare them as either / or.

 

[AZ Craig]

Regardless of the pros / cons of either, the GX and TX are such completely different vehicles with completely different capabilities that it's amazing anyone would seriously compare them as either / or.

You would think so, but say you know you want a Lexus and just head to the dealership to look at whatever has a third row. GX looks big and burly while the TX is a bit minivanesque. You know cars definitely get bought this way.

 

[phillyd2]

You would think so, but say you know you want a Lexus and just head to the dealership to look at whatever has a third row. GX looks big and burly while the TX is a bit minivanesque. You know cars definitely get bought this way.

I know a lot of things happen but it doesn't make it any less silly or even irresponsible.

 

[gomiami]

Regardless of the pros / cons of either, the GX and TX are such completely different vehicles with completely different capabilities that it's amazing anyone would seriously compare them as either / or.

I do agree in theory. The TX is purely an on-road people and stuff mover. The GX should be an on-road when you need it and off-road when you need it ride...but the base GX will have none of the more desirable off-road features and will be similarly priced to a TX.

My guess is that they will be cross-shopped in base trims. If you compare the TX500h to the GX550 Overtrail +, then the audience should be totally dissimilar.

 

[AZ Craig]

My guess is that they will be cross-shopped in base trims. If you compare the TX500h to the GX550 Overtrail +, then the audience should be totally dissimilar.

Exactly, specific buyers will be looking for an Overtrail or a TX500H (and know what they want and why they are paying the price premium for it). It's casual car folks who just go to the Lexus dealership because "they want a Lexus" who could easily end up cross shopping whatever happens to be available with 3 rows. Put emotions into play, and all sorts of weird things happen.

My search to replace my Rover may be over as things went very unexpected yesterday. My wife didn't like the MDX (not unexpected), but we ended up looking at a V8 Grand Cherokee L that was heavily discounted. Looks like I'm going to pick it up over 20% off MSRP with a lease for pretty much the same as what my monthly on my Rover has been the last ~3.5 years.

Wish I could get 20% off on a Toyota, haha.

Edit: Payment was too good to be true and dealership screwed up on my trade pay off. Didn't realize it until I had signed half the paperwork either. Majorly incompetent, but guess I'm sticking with my cars for now .

 

[NoTreadLeft]

Turbo in an offroad vehicle seems like an idea from someone who has never driven a vehicle with a turbo charger.

 

[phillyd2]

Anyone not understanding the difference between BOF 4WD and Unibody AWD shouldn't be allowed in buy vehicles. Might be best to make it a federal law to avoid the risk of a State accidentally letting it happen.

Because we are based on liberty and freedom, they can still be passengers but only in the back seat. Better safe than sorry.

 

[bluebullet]

Anyone not understanding the difference between BOF 4WD and Unibody AWD shouldn't be allowed in buy vehicles. Might be best to make it a federal law to avoid the risk of a State accidentally letting it happen.

Because we are based on liberty and freedom, they can still be passengers but only in the back seat. Better safe than sorry.

Perhaps a bit harsh, but nice you did not sentence them to the third row. :fencing:

 

[AZ Craig]

Anyone not understanding the difference between BOF 4WD and Unibody AWD shouldn't be allowed in buy vehicles. Might be best to make it a federal law to avoid the risk of a State accidentally letting it happen.

Because we are based on liberty and freedom, they can still be passengers but only in the back seat. Better safe than sorry.

Walk up to an average joe on the street and ask them to describe the difference between a BoF and unibody architecture for an SUV. I bet you'd be lucky in 1 in 50 people could do so.

 

[phillyd2]

Walk up to an average joe on the street and ask them to describe the difference between a BoF and unibody architecture for an SUV. I bet you'd be lucky in 1 in 50 people could do so.

And? If a zillion people don't know something then that safety in numbers doesn't make them any less clueless.

Point still proudly stands.

 

[phillyd2]

Perhaps a bit harsh, but nice you did not sentence them to the third row. :fencing:

No need to be unreasonably. Those with third rows should just have to pay a hefty fine.

 

[Jetboy]

Turbo in an offroad vehicle seems like an idea from someone who has never driven a vehicle with a turbo charger.

Dunno - seems like these all do pretty well offroad despite having turbos:

 

[AZ Craig]

So the Crown and the Venza will not co-exist with the Crown taking it's place. Makes more sense now in Toyota's lineup.

Access to this page has been denied

Don't see how this doesn't cannibalize RX350 and RX350H sales though to be honest. Maybe Toyota doesn't care though (considering the Venza probably cannibalized NX sales previously).

 

[Jetboy]

Yeah. Replacing the Venza is a lot more logical than sitting beside it. Curious about pricing. RX was a lot more $ than a Venza. It was about 95% overlap of price with the Rav4 for the Venza. Probably more cross shopped with the NX. But still a better value I think. I haven't seen specs for the Crown Insignia so it's hard to know how bit it is to me. Is it a 112" wheelbase size or 106? If it's the larger size, it sure seems to be going right at the RX market. But arguably so does the highlander upper trims. I know we cross shopped between highlander platinum and RX. Not sure if I would have cross shopped a venza, but maybe.

 

[Thai]

Dunno - seems like these all do pretty well offroad despite having turbos:

Are those turbo diesel or turbo gas engines?

 

[Jetboy]

Are those turbo diesel or turbo gas engines?

They are sold in a variety of engines. Mostly turbo diesels but also 1GR gas v6 engines in most markets.

Not all turbo gas engines are peaky high revving race engines. The 2.4 and 3.4l turbo gas engines from Toyota have very similar power curves to diesel engines.

 

[gomiami]

No need to be unreasonably. Those with third rows should just have to pay a hefty fine.

What about those of us who bought a 3rd Row but perhaps plan to remove it down the road?

Are we to be fined as well?

 

[AZ Craig]

Yeah. Replacing the Venza is a lot more logical than sitting beside it. Curious about pricing. RX was a lot more $ than a Venza. It was about 95% overlap of price with the Rav4 for the Venza. Probably more cross shopped with the NX. But still a better value I think. I haven't seen specs for the Crown Insignia so it's hard to know how bit it is to me. Is it a 112" wheelbase size or 106? If it's the larger size, it sure seems to be going right at the RX market. But arguably so does the highlander upper trims. I know we cross shopped between highlander platinum and RX. Not sure if I would have cross shopped a venza, but maybe.

I looked around for the wheel base and general specs, but it seems like Toyota hasn't released them yet (they did add a page on toyota.com, but nothing there yet either). It really reminds me of the 1st gen Venza in overall shape (more of a lifted wagon). My parents have one of those and are pretty much sitting on it as the last car they plan on owning.

With estimated pricing in the $45K to $55K range on the Signia, it's definitely going to be in really close to the RX I think.

 

[Jetboy]

I looked around for the wheel base and general specs, but it seems like Toyota hasn't released them yet (they did add a page on toyota.com, but nothing there yet either). It really reminds me of the 1st gen Venza in overall shape (more of a lifted wagon). My parents have one of those and are pretty much sitting on it as the last car they plan on owning.

With estimated pricing in the $45K to $55K range on the Signia, it's definitely going to be in really close to the RX I think.

The RX went up a lot in price in the last few years. RX hybrid now starts about $53k and goes up to $72k for the PHEV version. So there's a bit of overlap, but not a ton. Highlander hybrid ranges from about $40-$55k. So, this is priced basically right on top of the Highlander hybrid - which is probably the same vehicle with different body on it.

I think it's probably very close in price when you try to match up comparable trims though. I priced out a highlander hybrid platinum and it is $54,500. A hibrid RX350 with roughly the same options on a base model RXh is $54,400. Nearly identical pricing between them similarly spec'd.

I do think they'll see sales move from RX to Crown. A lot of that has to do with the fact that it's potentially less expensive for what is likely a more functional version of the same thing with more cargo volume. Especially if the $45k version is well equipped. Hard to know without actually driving them back to back. Sometimes the spec sheet doesn't tell the whole story.

One funny aside - as I was doing the build I saw in the accessories that you can buy electric drop down side steps for an RX350. What?? The step in height is about 10 inches off the ground. What would possibly be the situation where you'd need an additional running board step to get into an RX? It's probably within an inch or two of the same step in height as a Camry.

*Edited to correct my own pricing assumptions that were wrong.