Big Brake Kits for 5th Gen?
- Thread starter Special-k
- Start date
Bourbonator
New member
I read that as g35, so I hope you'll forgive me. Last time I checked, the g wagon was still BOF, but the range rover is certainly a unibody.
philsey
New member
[MENTION=107389]Special-k[/MENTION]
I think I read that the '14s now have SS lines, and I also think "improving brake feel" was cited as the reason. If so, wouldn't the '14 brake lines from Toyota fit?
When I drive the wifey's new Accord I nearly put us through the windshield first few stops. Remarkable difference in feel.
I think I read that the '14s now have SS lines, and I also think "improving brake feel" was cited as the reason. If so, wouldn't the '14 brake lines from Toyota fit?
When I drive the wifey's new Accord I nearly put us through the windshield first few stops. Remarkable difference in feel.
FERAL 4R
New member
Agreed. SS lines will be the wise choice.
Bimmer-Bob
New member
Why in the world would you put a BBK on a 4Runner? It won't affect stopping distance, but better tires will. If you want more initial bite, you could go with a more aggressive pad compound, but it will dust more. Lines will also change feel. BBK's are generally meant for improved cooling for track-driven vehicles. Otherwise it's just tuner bling.
FrontRange4Runner
New member
Lol Tell me about it...I used to do the exact same thing in our Accord. Compared to the other vehicles I drove, it was soooo touchy, but definitely inspired confidence in the system. I feel like the Runner would have a lot less brake complaints if they could just take an inch or more out of the initial pedal travel. It feels like you have to go 25% into the pedal before you start braking. The accord on the other had would be throwing things through the front window at 25%.
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Bimmer-Bob
New member
Yeah, but why would you want such touchy brakes on a vehicle this heavy? The stock set up allows for very smooth braking with minimal input. OTOH, in a panic braking situation, a firm stab of the pedal activates the brake booster and slows the truck down real quick.
philsey
New member
Agree. I don't like touchy brakes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with our brakes - make an emergency stop someday. They are just like the acceleration, just learn to use 'em.
Tundra/4Runner
New member
my 2008 eats the front rotors in 10k miles. It has a 3" lift and slightly larger tires (265/70/18) which I know doesn't help. does anyone have an upgrade option that has worked well?
mybabydaddy
New member
I have to chuckle at this... Even after driving three different models/years, I forget about this... Then have to do a quick-stab/stop and EVERYTHING I OWN NOT TIED DOWN IN THAT TRUCK comes flying forward with vengeance! I honestly thought I did a "stoppie" the last time it happened. (For those non two-wheelers, it means the a$$-end of the vehicle came off the ground while braking).
The feel of the T4R brakes can be crappy (depending on what you are used to/came from prior vehicle), but these bast***s will STOP if you punch that pedal.
BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=107389]Special-k[/MENTION]
Why do you need a BBK? There's two specific sections of the braking system that operate completely counterintutive in 4Runners starting with late 3rd Gen Models as a result of moving over to a Hydraulically Assisted Master Cylinder Set-Up that's been standard.
-Braking Feel
-Braking Performance
Braking feel has always been erroneously described by many people as "Soggy, Spongey, Soft" in these systems. Which is not entirely accurate, but the sensation is similar. Spongey implies that the pedal is depressed and the brakes are not performing in relation to pedal application (usually as a result of air or boiling gases in the fluid creating compressible pockets) The reality is that the system has a very low pressure application threshold with a very consistent stroke, vs. traditional vacuum systems that have a low pressure application that increases as you dip deeper in stroke. What this means is that you are really applying a consistently low amount of pressure through out the entire pedal application all the way to the floor with little to no increase in resistance; the system is just that "easy and consistent" in pedal feel.
Which brings us to braking performance, despite having a low pressure input and consistent feel; the braking performance does not follow that input. In fact while you're input is very "Spongey", the output is equally consistent, but far more aomplified. The system boosts assistive pressure and provides rather excellent clamping force to the wheels that you don't feel back in the pedal unless you really pay attention. While you may feel like you're not doing enough with the pedal, the system is actually stopping the vehicle fairly well. If you stab the brakes as you would in an emergency situation then BA (Brake Assist) is activated and all hell breaks loose; well actually anything that isn't nailed down. BA will triple braking application force (at least according to Toyota's rough charts) and slam on the brakes with a ridiculous amount of force. It will bring that 5,000lbs hunk of steel to a solid stop surprisingly well.
Additionally, my 4th Gen has the "Sport" Trim which meant I got the "BBK" from the factory. Your 5th gen still has roughly the same sized calipers as mine, but your 4 Piston Calipers have a good 4mm increase in diameter over my calipers, thicker rotors, and another 3mm on the rear pistons increase as well. My 4th gen with SW full metal bumper, skids, 33" E-Load LT Tires, and some extra weight still stops impressively well for how heavy it is (though my rotors and pads are a bit glazed and I'd like more bite, but that's something good aftermarket pads and rotors can fix). So I would imagine the increased pressure application of your 5th gen system should be more than adequate (in fact 4th gen guys are starting to "upgrade" to 5th gen calipers because they are bolt on and have the increased diameter pistons.)
Which brings me back to my original question.
Why do you feel you need a BBK vs. better pads and rotors?
Why do you need a BBK? There's two specific sections of the braking system that operate completely counterintutive in 4Runners starting with late 3rd Gen Models as a result of moving over to a Hydraulically Assisted Master Cylinder Set-Up that's been standard.
-Braking Feel
-Braking Performance
Braking feel has always been erroneously described by many people as "Soggy, Spongey, Soft" in these systems. Which is not entirely accurate, but the sensation is similar. Spongey implies that the pedal is depressed and the brakes are not performing in relation to pedal application (usually as a result of air or boiling gases in the fluid creating compressible pockets) The reality is that the system has a very low pressure application threshold with a very consistent stroke, vs. traditional vacuum systems that have a low pressure application that increases as you dip deeper in stroke. What this means is that you are really applying a consistently low amount of pressure through out the entire pedal application all the way to the floor with little to no increase in resistance; the system is just that "easy and consistent" in pedal feel.
Which brings us to braking performance, despite having a low pressure input and consistent feel; the braking performance does not follow that input. In fact while you're input is very "Spongey", the output is equally consistent, but far more aomplified. The system boosts assistive pressure and provides rather excellent clamping force to the wheels that you don't feel back in the pedal unless you really pay attention. While you may feel like you're not doing enough with the pedal, the system is actually stopping the vehicle fairly well. If you stab the brakes as you would in an emergency situation then BA (Brake Assist) is activated and all hell breaks loose; well actually anything that isn't nailed down. BA will triple braking application force (at least according to Toyota's rough charts) and slam on the brakes with a ridiculous amount of force. It will bring that 5,000lbs hunk of steel to a solid stop surprisingly well.
Additionally, my 4th Gen has the "Sport" Trim which meant I got the "BBK" from the factory. Your 5th gen still has roughly the same sized calipers as mine, but your 4 Piston Calipers have a good 4mm increase in diameter over my calipers, thicker rotors, and another 3mm on the rear pistons increase as well. My 4th gen with SW full metal bumper, skids, 33" E-Load LT Tires, and some extra weight still stops impressively well for how heavy it is (though my rotors and pads are a bit glazed and I'd like more bite, but that's something good aftermarket pads and rotors can fix). So I would imagine the increased pressure application of your 5th gen system should be more than adequate (in fact 4th gen guys are starting to "upgrade" to 5th gen calipers because they are bolt on and have the increased diameter pistons.)
Which brings me back to my original question.
Why do you feel you need a BBK vs. better pads and rotors?
TheLast13
New member
You did realize the OP post was from March of 2014.... I hope.
BlackWorksInc
New member
...No :moping:
mybabydaddy
New member
Actually, regardless of initial motivation on the response, [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]’s response is really valuable IMO (even if you don’t ’see’ responses or likes). I know that I saw at least a handful of posts when I was doing “lift” research over the past 6 months from people who were researching buying T4Rs (and test driving them) or had just bought one, and were beotching about the “brake feel” on them. It’s good information explained to many who may not know any difference. Heck, even I was at one point curious about upgrading the brakes on mine early on... but eventually remembered I was driving a medium sized SUV which is not supposed to stop like a Porsche GT3. :thumb:
Antman
Elite Member
Awesome, accurate information.:rockon:
Posts like this are the reason we are so lucky to have you on this forum.
Somebody had to say it.
Happy New Year, sir!
Boyds4Runner
New member
Appreciate the explanation!
Now I better understand why the brake pedal does not get harder to push when engine power is off. For example when just rolling it out of the garage rather than starting the car just to move it back 15'. Doing the same with the minivan I have to practically stand up on the brake pedal as it gets harder to push with each little jab. In both cases I have the keys in the ignition and turned to run without starting the engine.
Cheers!
Member
Back to BBK since the OP wanted to know about BBKs. Didn't TRD offer a BBK for 4runners that was made by Stoptech and then were later recalled and all were removed from market?
When I do the brakes in my 4runner I'm going to go with Carbotech 1521 compounds front and rear. I love Carbotech pads on my s2000 and loved them on my old Subaru. I'd then do whatever rotor (if needed) that are highest quality that are still less than $100 per corner. To cap it off, I'd then put in fancy Castrol SRF brake fluid. Just because I can, and because I live in USA and it costs only $60 per litre instead of $135 per litre in Canada.
When I do the brakes in my 4runner I'm going to go with Carbotech 1521 compounds front and rear. I love Carbotech pads on my s2000 and loved them on my old Subaru. I'd then do whatever rotor (if needed) that are highest quality that are still less than $100 per corner. To cap it off, I'd then put in fancy Castrol SRF brake fluid. Just because I can, and because I live in USA and it costs only $60 per litre instead of $135 per litre in Canada.
midnight runner
New member
No, that never happened because there was never big brake kit product released for 5th Gen 4runner.
bugeye1257
New member
Rotora BBK makes one specifically for the 5th gen. I few people I know have them on there 4runners.
