Blackstone oil report
- Thread starter vicpick58
- Start date
First post, but if you want to actually trend the wear metals in your engine oil you need to not change the oil, and sample it every certain amount of miles/hours not every change. IE take a sample every 100 hours of operating time or every 300 miles.
Example: If normal AL wear metal is 17, and a 4-8 PPM increase every 100 hours is normal, and 8PPM + increase in a 100 hour period is abnormal. Now say your alu wear metal is 1 at 100 hours, 1 at 200 hours 2 at 300 hours 2 at 400 hours and 15 at 500 hours you had an abnormal increase of 13PPM in a 100 hour period. If you only do samples at the 500 hour interval and you change the oil you will never know you have had a 12PPM increase in a 100 hour period. You will see a 15PPM increase in a 500 hour period which would not cause any alarm to the lab tech running the sample.
Your sample will come back "Normal", because your Normal AL wear metal is 17 PPM and your sample reads 15ppm, and they have no trend history on that oil for the last 500 hours.
Wear metals do not decrease in your oil, unless you drain it and fill it with clean oil. So if you are only taking a sample at oil change intervals you will never know if you have an impending internal failure or not which is the sole purpose of oil sampling.
I do find threads like this interesting and informative, because you guys do the research that shoots down the 3k and 5k oil change recommendations, and you are not just spouting big oil or manufacture suggested intervals.
I am a trained and qualified oil lab tech with the US Navy, so I am not blowing smoke. Its not my main job in the Navy but I spent a month in school and spent over a year running H-60 gearbox oil samples on a CVN class carrier.
Example: If normal AL wear metal is 17, and a 4-8 PPM increase every 100 hours is normal, and 8PPM + increase in a 100 hour period is abnormal. Now say your alu wear metal is 1 at 100 hours, 1 at 200 hours 2 at 300 hours 2 at 400 hours and 15 at 500 hours you had an abnormal increase of 13PPM in a 100 hour period. If you only do samples at the 500 hour interval and you change the oil you will never know you have had a 12PPM increase in a 100 hour period. You will see a 15PPM increase in a 500 hour period which would not cause any alarm to the lab tech running the sample.
Your sample will come back "Normal", because your Normal AL wear metal is 17 PPM and your sample reads 15ppm, and they have no trend history on that oil for the last 500 hours.
Wear metals do not decrease in your oil, unless you drain it and fill it with clean oil. So if you are only taking a sample at oil change intervals you will never know if you have an impending internal failure or not which is the sole purpose of oil sampling.
I do find threads like this interesting and informative, because you guys do the research that shoots down the 3k and 5k oil change recommendations, and you are not just spouting big oil or manufacture suggested intervals.
I am a trained and qualified oil lab tech with the US Navy, so I am not blowing smoke. Its not my main job in the Navy but I spent a month in school and spent over a year running H-60 gearbox oil samples on a CVN class carrier.
Woz1976-MT
New member
Yeah, living in rural (small city) Montana nothing is close to me. A trip to the closest McDonalds is a 160-mile round trip.
So there are no short-distance trips where the engine/fluids don't get warmed up properly. I would venture a guess and say the M1 0W20 EP would be better for short-trips, etc. Then again, now you're into "severe service" and 5k mile OCI territory.Basically, M1 AFE can handle the 10k mile OCI called for in "normal service" -- that's all that I was really documenting (for myself and others here). I'm going to be doing 10k OCI's until I hit 60k miles, then I won't be doing UOA anymore.
Woz1976-MT
New member
TRDTommy
New member
This is my first report with Blackstone. I am on my 2nd DIY oil change with Pennzoil Platinum after the two courtesy oil changes from the dealership ended. I have been doing 7500 mile intervals with oem filters and also have a Jowett Performance oil filter housing installed. I apologize for how small the image turned out.
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2021 TRD Pro that has seen quite a few trips into the California mountains.
This oil was sampled at 5k miles, and I had changed the oil at 1K; so there are only 4k miles on this oil.
TL;DR: data report shows normal wear for a new engine; count for wear and silicone should drop after a few more changes.
:beer:
This oil was sampled at 5k miles, and I had changed the oil at 1K; so there are only 4k miles on this oil.
TL;DR: data report shows normal wear for a new engine; count for wear and silicone should drop after a few more changes.
:beer:
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Hammer0313
New member
*** My comparisons are just against your first report.
Here is my 1st report. I changed the oil and filter at ~4000 miles. This report is for ~8000 miles of use (12k miles on vehicles)
Interesting that i was told to go ahead for 10k for next change based on plenty of TBN (3.3), and you were told to only try 6k with a 4.8 TBN @ 4k.
My copper is double yours at 87, but I am ~3k miles less on vehicle and the oil was double the use case. Same story for Silicon, so i think these make sense based on oil change interval and more or less same engine use.
The Molybdenum is what really stands out to me. I was at 61, you are 576! Average of 80.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
My Toyota’s oil is still light brown after 10k where as my Range Rover’s is pitch black in 3k.
2021 Nightshade
4.0L, N/A, 10k miles
2012 Range Rover Full Size
5.0L, S/C, 169k miles
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2021 Nightshade
4.0L, N/A, 10k miles
2012 Range Rover Full Size
5.0L, S/C, 169k miles
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CutthroatSlam
Senior Member
I sent samples to Blackstone and the report I got back said “she’s ready.” I think it was the wrong lab.
Seriously, we have 307K miles on a 2014 SR5 4Runner and that is changing the oil every 10K miles and never getting a lab report. Have always used Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Quaker State or Rotella Truck synthetic 0w20 with Toyota OEM filters. Don’t over think it. 98% of you will never see the miles we already have on this truck.
Seriously, we have 307K miles on a 2014 SR5 4Runner and that is changing the oil every 10K miles and never getting a lab report. Have always used Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Quaker State or Rotella Truck synthetic 0w20 with Toyota OEM filters. Don’t over think it. 98% of you will never see the miles we already have on this truck.
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Hammer0313
New member
arty:
FoxtrotRomeo
Member
So, if you get a trending bad/bad report from Blackstone - what do you do?
Great question. I'd take advise from a few forums first, but if things trend bad then I'd sell it before it costs me more. :tea:
Depends on what the trend is. Ideally, it would help you to identify root cause of your issue and enable you to focus on what needs fixed. Excess water/glcyol in the oil - headgasket issue maybe? Excess bearing material wear - shorter oil change interval, change intake filter? Excess fuel in oil - worn rings?
The reality is, for 99% of us, it's just a "waste" of $30 to make us feel confident things are going well...
Otherwise, I think the real purpose for doing it on these modern, healthy engines, is to give direction on OCI. Is 10k really too much as many claim without any evidence? Can i go further on my engine and my duty cycle? One recent post shows they could safely go 12k... this person likely drives a lot of highway miles and has a good clean intake filter.
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2021nightshade4x4
New member
It’s for the people who like data - literally Blackstone just thinks of any and all metrics they can put in a report and sell it to pseudointellectuals (prosumers).
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Yep, agree with this too. I’m a data wh**e. Pseudo intellectuals and prosumers may be true for most, but this type of data in combination with several other standardized tests is also used by engineering teams during validation testing
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