Bolt-In Engine Intergange

[spectre6000]

Bolt-In Engine Interchange

VW/Porsche used the same engine-tranny bolt pattern from the '30s through '03. This means that I can put a 108hp modified Porsche 914 engine into my '58 Beetle that originally came with 36hp without doing anything save modifying some cooling tin. Do Toyotas adhere to this design philosophy in any way? I.e., could I pull the 3.4L V6 and put in the newer 4.0L out of a FJ?

As far as 4Runners go, I get pretty good fuel economy, but the automotive industry is obviously under pressure to do better. Direct injection, forced induction, etc. are the anticipated norm in the very near future yielding higher horsepower, more torque, better fuel economy, and better reliability. Should I be keeping a finger on Toyota's pulse to anticipate getting a crate engine to refresh my 4Runner and improve its performance and efficiency, or do they change things such that it wouldn't be likely that anything would fit?

 

[PitbullRescuer]

Porsche/VW's (air cooled) are among the most DIY friendly vehicles ever built. A blind chimp with 1 arm could get one of those motors on the ground in 20 minutes.

Modern technology, computers, crash zones, etc don't support this type of interchangeability anymore. Is it possible to swap a newer motor in? Sure. Look at Singtoe and his 4.7 V8 3rd Gen. Is it easy? Absolutely not.

 

[spectre6000]

I think a blind one armed chimp would be hard pressed to drop an engine in 20 minutes... The record for running-out-in-running is two minutes with a team of 4 or so, and I can drop one solo with my (now former) bus in about 20, but yeah. DIY friendly is an understatement.

Meanwhile, I'm not talking something completely foreign, I mean would the 3.4L V6 from a 96 plug into a '00 without any modification as an example. What is the range that this applies? OBD-II will likely preclude anything prior to '96 or '97 going into a later model plugging in as far as electronics are concerned, so that would be noteworthy, but I have a hard time imagining they wouldn't just bolt right in and run (flashing dash aside if you put an older engine in a later truck).

What about a current gen V6 with the slight difference in displacement? Is it the same block? Same bolt pattern? Same electrical connections? The tranny to handle a V8 is very likely going to be different (and has a different part number no doubt) to handle the difference in power and maybe flywheel size etc., but so does the tranny differ from a '36 VW to a '96 Porsche. You can still physically bolt a 3.0L flat 6 into a split bus and it will run (sheet metal, electronics, and fuel systems aside).

 

[hugo2go]

Even going from OBD I to OBDII would be a hassle to convert.

If you really want power and reliability, and better fuel consumption throw a LS/X (chevy crate motor) in your rig and convert it to E85.

I know of a LandCruiser with this swap and it gets better MPG than most newer 4Runners, with over 400HP -- Tuned to E85 of course

 

[CoMarc]

From what I've read it isn't as simple as dropping in a new motor like VW has done in the past for Toyotas unfortunately. I'm no expert, but every swap I've read sounds like there's a bit of work to move an engine from one toyota vehicle into another complete different toyota vehicle because of wiring, transfer cases, and sometimes transmissions.

 

[Dan.3]

The 5vz is a bolt in upgrade for the 1st and 2nd gens. The 1 gre is a different animal compared to the 5vz. It would a phenomenal upgrade but the electronics are a challenge, mainly the speed sensors.

 

[spectre6000]

Most engine swaps I see are for things like putting Chevy V8 into a FJ40 or something. Cute, but kinda silly IMHO. I'm only talking V6 to V6.

Phrasing the question another way, is the bolt pattern the same? Overal real estate? Barring that, are the tranny mounts the same? A newer tranny will be set up more for fuel economy as well (transfer cases and dual cases take care of torque issues, and earlier cars are almost always lighter to boot). I'm sure someone on here works in a shop or something and can lay eyes/hands on some various parts to see if they look similar at all. Electronics are a different issue, and I'm not as concerned about that as real estate and adapters at this point.

 

[Stick Figure]

I am about 90% sure the bell housing bolt pattern would be different.

Generally Toyota doesn't carry the bell housing bolt pattern for years/engines like some other manufactures do.

Honestly making an adapter to fit a non normal engine/transmission combo is the easiest part of the equation. Like others have mentioned the wiring is the biggest nightmare especially if you want to make things 50 state legal.

 

[KidVermicious]

The 5vz is a bolt in upgrade for the 1st and 2nd gens. The 1 gre is a different animal compared to the 5vz. It would a phenomenal upgrade but the electronics are a challenge, mainly the speed sensors.

Where did you get this idea? The 22RE and 5VZE are completely different, requiring major fab work and drivetrain replacement (or adapters). The 3VZE is an easier swap, in the sense that the engine mounts line up, but there's still wiring to do and a transmission to figure out. Neither of these are a "bolt in" swap.

 

[Dan.3]

Where did you get this idea? The 22RE and 5VZE are completely different, requiring major fab work and drivetrain replacement (or adapters). The 3VZE is an easier swap, in the sense that the engine mounts line up, but there's still wiring to do and a transmission to figure out. Neither of these are a "bolt in" swap.

My bad. I should have specified for the 3vz for the first and second gens. And the 3vz to 5vz is a bolt in swap. I used a 99 5vz and dropped it in and bolted it to the 340h. 5vz actually appeared to take up less room in the engine bay. Wiring was simple. It seems like its very complex but it's not. This swap is stupid simple if your first and second gen is a 5speed with the 3vz

 

[KidVermicious]

My bad. I should have specified for the 3vz for the first and second gens. And the 3vz to 5vz is a bolt in swap. I used a 99 5vz and dropped it in and bolted it to the 340h. 5vz actually appeared to take up less room in the engine bay. Wiring was simple. It seems like its very complex but it's not.

I didn't realize the 5vze bolted to the 340h, I thought you had to get a different bell housing. Learn something new every day, I guess!

 

[Dan.3]

I didn't realize the 5vze bolted to the 340h, I thought you had to get a different bell housing. Learn something new every day, I guess!

Yup. 340h and 340f are the same except for the transfer case.

 

[spectre6000]

Yup. 340h and 340f are the same except for the transfer case.

More of this!

 

[Jayzero911]

I think a blind one armed chimp would be hard pressed to drop an engine in 20 minutes... The record for running-out-in-running is two minutes with a team of 4 or so, and I can drop one solo with my (now former) bus in about 20, but yeah. DIY friendly is an understatement.

When working at a Vee Dub shop me and the owner blew the engine in a 62 bug as was someone on the way to come look at it to buy. The 2 of us had a new engine in it and driving around in 35min.... awesome little cars lol. the first time I dropped one it took most the day, but by the 3ed one I was slamming them out.


.... wow off topic and not the thread I'm looking for >.<

 

[jonwilly2]

as far as the engine goes if you have the ecu and wiring then you could pair the engine with the trans of your choice. The problem comes with the transmission. With toyota the transmission is electronically controlled by the engines ecu. So If you want the new engine and use the stock transmission you will ether have to use a manual transmission or get a transmission ecu and make it all work. The a340 transmissions are made my the same company that made some automatic transmissions for older jeep Cherokees. They used a separate computer for the transmission so in theory that computer can be made to work with the a340. Thats to much work in my opinion. The a340 was also available in the supra, so you would think that there are aftermarket controllers and goodies for that and there are a couple but in the $$$$ range. The a341 trans that is paired to the 1uz is a stronger smarter transmission and by swapping the output shaft and t-case from a 340 then you can use that with the 1uz.

Long story short it is vary well possible and the only way to get the new 4.0 with a a340 is with the engine ECU for a manual transmission truck and a stand alone transmission computer like what clownsmeat did with his turbo 4Runner or use the 5 speed that cam in the 3rd get.

For the cost and trouble just get a new 4Runner and keep the old one as the toy