Brake squeal, and a white paper about it

[lockerc18]

My 2004 V6 LTD has developed a squeal in the right rear brake. It happens as soon as I apply the brake, but as I increase pedal pressure, it goes away. And, of course, it isn't consistent, so when I brought it into the dealer (twice) for this, they couldn't find a problem with it. They said they lubed the caliper pins or some such. Sounds like greasing the muffler bearings to me. Anyway, the squeal is back. They said it wasn't brake dust or glaze on the pads or rotors, and the pads aren't worn to the point where the sensors would squeal. So, I'm stumped as to what is causing this squeal and how to get rid of it.

In searching through the web to see what information is out there about this, I came across this paper, written by Delphi:

http://www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/1999-01-0142.PDF

This is in the category of "more information than you wanted to know about", but it is an interesting read about brake squealing. Not that it helped me understand why MY brakes are squealing, of course. But in case someone else is interested in the subject, here it is.

And if anyone has a suggestion about why this is happening and what I can do about it, I'm all ears. Thanks.

 

[tomhaney1]

My 2004 V6 LTD has developed a squeal in the right rear brake. It happens as soon as I apply the brake, but as I increase pedal pressure, it goes away. And, of course, it isn't consistent, so when I brought it into the dealer (twice) for this, they couldn't find a problem with it. They said they lubed the caliper pins or some such. Sounds like greasing the muffler bearings to me. Anyway, the squeal is back. They said it wasn't brake dust or glaze on the pads or rotors, and the pads aren't worn to the point where the sensors would squeal. So, I'm stumped as to what is causing this squeal and how to get rid of it.

In searching through the web to see what information is out there about this, I came across this paper, written by Delphi:

http://www.delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/1999-01-0142.PDF

This is in the category of "more information than you wanted to know about", but it is an interesting read about brake squealing. Not that it helped me understand why MY brakes are squealing, of course. But in case someone else is interested in the subject, here it is.

And if anyone has a suggestion about why this is happening and what I can do about it, I'm all ears. Thanks.

Not really in the way of helping you but the woman's Corolla does the same goddam thing with the rear brakes only. They have cleaned, adjusted, recleaned, readjusted, lubed and whatever else they do to brakes but it doesn't go away. The difference is that hers ALWAYS squeal when the pedal is applied. It drives me nuts when I drive it but that is not very often and it somehow doesn't bother her (she's probably more concerned with her make-up and such). Anyways, if you find a solution please post it!

 

[brad6841]

Have you tried the anti-squeel spray on stuff they sell at auto parts stores...

Used this on my truck and it worked like a charm...:biggrin2:

 

[tomhaney1]

Have you tried the anti-squeel spray on stuff they sell at auto parts stores...

Used this on my truck and it worked like a charm...:biggrin2:

Can't speak for lockerc18 but I have tried that. Worked for a week or so and then the squeal returned...

 

[michael90630]

I have the exact same situation like tomhaney1. My wife's 1996 Corolla does the same. It actually does the first one or two brake applications and goes away when I keep driving. As soon as the car is back in the garage and the next day I happen to drive again first thing in the morning, the annoying squeal comes back and it is quite loud.

My wife never noticed it and never complained. But kind of bothers me a lot and I have been wondering what I should do to fix it. Don't really want to go to the "Stealership" for any of their solutions!

 

[ur2ez]

I tried the spray on stuff no-squeel stuff once and it didn't last worth a hoot...but if you get the stuff in the tube and put it between the pad and the shim, and then stick the shim on it's worked for the last 6 months and counting on my wife's RX300 and it's worked on other cars until I got rid of them or changed the brakes. Something to think about...cuz usually the squeel is a high speed vibration on the pad.

 

[RamThis]

Silicone brake pad lubricant on the sliders and between the caliper piston and pad, and caliper body and pad on the other side, will almost always fix the problem.

Also, if you get rid of the stock pads and throw on a set of Wagner Thermo-Quiet pads, they have a backing that stops any noise/high frequency vibrations from starting. PLUS almost no dust on your rims. I now use exclusively Thermo-Quiet pads because of how well they worked for me on my Ram, which was going through pads like Roseanne on red week.

You will want to have the rotors turned as well before you put on new pads, so it all seats together correctly.

 

[TRD04RUNNER]

i dont think it squeal as bad as the break on my m3! it squeal like a pig but dealer said it normal? who know?

 

[ur2ez]

i dont think it squeal as bad as the break on my m3! it squeal like a pig but dealer said it normal? who know?

Brake squeal is common...but never "normal". There is never a car that a dealership gets new from the factory and has brake squeal, they would find a way to eliminate that before they ever let a customer test drive it. If they would find a way to fix it then...they should find a way to fix it for you now.

 

[lockerc18]

Silicone brake pad lubricant on the sliders and between the caliper piston and pad, and caliper body and pad on the other side, will almost always fix the problem.

Also, if you get rid of the stock pads and throw on a set of Wagner Thermo-Quiet pads, they have a backing that stops any noise/high frequency vibrations from starting. PLUS almost no dust on your rims. I now use exclusively Thermo-Quiet pads because of how well they worked for me on my Ram, which was going through pads like Roseanne on red week.

You will want to have the rotors turned as well before you put on new pads, so it all seats together correctly.

I may try the silicone lubricant, thanks. But, I wonder if this is something that should be handled under my extended warranty? I have 45K miles on the truck now, and also have a Platinum warranty. That ought to be good for something in this situation.

I don't want to chuck the pads yet. It seems silly to throw out something that still works well, except for this darn squeal. But.... with the warm weather here (finally!!!), riding around with the windows and sunroof open to enjoy the day, it's a real PITA to have this squeal munging up the experience.

 

[ur2ez]

I may try the silicone lubricant, thanks. But, I wonder if this is something that should be handled under my extended warranty? I have 45K miles on the truck now, and also have a Platinum warranty. That ought to be good for something in this situation.

I don't want to chuck the pads yet. It seems silly to throw out something that still works well, except for this darn squeal. But.... with the warm weather here (finally!!!), riding around with the windows and sunroof open to enjoy the day, it's a real PITA to have this squeal munging up the experience.

While I'm no expert, I highly doubt that the warranty would cover this. Nothing has broken or become defective...this happens, just that it's definitely fixable. It really won't take you hardly any time to fix them...brakes come off quick.

 

[tomhaney1]

I have the exact same situation like tomhaney1. My wife's 1996 Corolla does the same. It actually does the first one or two brake applications and goes away when I keep driving. As soon as the car is back in the garage and the next day I happen to drive again first thing in the morning, the annoying squeal comes back and it is quite loud.

My wife never noticed it and never complained. But kind of bothers me a lot and I have been wondering what I should do to fix it. Don't really want to go to the "Stealership" for any of their solutions!

That probably has to do with the material and stifness of the pads. Where did you have the pads put on? The more metallic the pad the more squealing and also some pads make noise until they are properly heated, thus only making the noise until the first few applications. You could always try moving to some EBC or Hawk pads for better grip and less noise. They will definitely not last as long but you will notice the difference.

The squeal on the Corolla happens every time the brakes are applied and only at a certain point. I play with it every time I use the car...I am going to replace the pads this summer.

 

[RamThis]

Pads are cheap. I also doubt the warranty will cover brake pads, but it's always worth a shot to ask. If anything, tell them you will provide them with some Thermo-Quiets if they'll eat the labor to install them to fix your squeal problem. Worth a shot.

I can do a brake job on my vehicles, for almost always under a benjamin, including new pads all around, turn the rotors, and flush the brake fluid for some new. Takes a couple hours is all. Disc brakes are EZ compared to drums.......

 

[Falls]

I agree with Ram , change pads and be done with it !

 

[lockerc18]

Squeal - Update

I figured I'd try out RamThis's advice, and put some silicone brake squeal lubricant on the correct parts as suggested. It turns out that Sears also had a sale on their car jacks this week, so I got an 8,000 lb (steel) jack for 99 bucks and a pair of 8,000 lb stands for another 32 bucks. More than enough, but you can never have too much money or too much jack capacity, right?

So, I did the surgery even though it's over 90 today. Got the truck all jacked up and on the stand and chocked the wheels, took the right rear wheel off (that's a biiiig wheel), sprayed the caliper and rotor with cleaner, took out the caliper pins (after a little discussion with them), took out the shims and pads (they needed some discussion, too. Toyota brakes must not like hot days.)

Then, I cleaned all the parts again with the brake cleaner, put a goodly amount of the silicone lubricant on the sliders and between the shims and pads, depressed the caliper piston, put all the parts back together again (which amazingly took no further discussion and went <i>clickety click</i> right back together), put the wheel back on again, got the truck off the jack stand and back onto terra firma, tightened the lug nuts, pumped the brake pedal a few times. Bingo, all done. So I take the truck for a test drive.

And, guess what? The stupid squeal is still there. Not that I mind taking a rear brake assembly apart and cleaning it on a hot, humid day. But, driving around, testing the brakes over and over and over, I think I finally figured out why this all didn't work.

It was the front brake that was squealing.

At least, that's what I think now. Unless, of course, the squeal is happening because the pads and rotor are all so squeaky clean right now, and that will disappear over time.

Ugh. I mean, what the heck else was I going to do today?

But, one thing I will say about this, there was really no brake dust at all on any of the parts. Not like my old Bimmer. The brakes on that got coated with dust in no time. But these were pretty clean. And for having 47K miles on them, the pads looked almost new from a wear perspective. Lots and lots more miles in them. Not too many other pads would last this long.

And when the temperature goes back down again, maybe I'll tackle the front wheel. Darn thing is really squealing.

 

[tomhaney1]

Re: Squeal - Update

I figured I'd try out RamThis's advice, and put some silicone brake squeal lubricant on the correct parts as suggested. It turns out that Sears also had a sale on their car jacks this week, so I got an 8,000 lb (steel) jack for 99 bucks and a pair of 8,000 lb stands for another 32 bucks. More than enough, but you can never have too much money or too much jack capacity, right?

So, I did the surgery even though it's over 90 today. Got the truck all jacked up and on the stand and chocked the wheels, took the right rear wheel off (that's a biiiig wheel), sprayed the caliper and rotor with cleaner, took out the caliper pins (after a little discussion with them), took out the shims and pads (they needed some discussion, too. Toyota brakes must not like hot days.)

Then, I cleaned all the parts again with the brake cleaner, put a goodly amount of the silicone lubricant on the sliders and between the shims and pads, depressed the caliper piston, put all the parts back together again (which amazingly took no further discussion and went <i>clickety click</i> right back together), put the wheel back on again, got the truck off the jack stand and back onto terra firma, tightened the lug nuts, pumped the brake pedal a few times. Bingo, all done. So I take the truck for a test drive.

And, guess what? The stupid squeal is still there. Not that I mind taking a rear brake assembly apart and cleaning it on a hot, humid day. But, driving around, testing the brakes over and over and over, I think I finally figured out why this all didn't work.

It was the front brake that was squealing.

At least, that's what I think now. Unless, of course, the squeal is happening because the pads and rotor are all so squeaky clean right now, and that will disappear over time.

Ugh. I mean, what the heck else was I going to do today?

But, one thing I will say about this, there was really no brake dust at all on any of the parts. Not like my old Bimmer. The brakes on that got coated with dust in no time. But these were pretty clean. And for having 47K miles on them, the pads looked almost new from a wear perspective. Lots and lots more miles in them. Not too many other pads would last this long.

And when the temperature goes back down again, maybe I'll tackle the front wheel. Darn thing is really squealing.

Maybe the squeal was coming from all four corners or one from each and now you only hear the fronts as the rears don't squeak anymore! Bimmers are funny that way. They have gotten better over time but their pads wear quicker because they are made for a higher level of performance, hence more residue.

 

[msanta]

This sounds like a silly question but when you install the ThermoQuiet pads you install them right out of the box, which means they don't use any of the OEM shim plates, am I right or wrong?