Being that we moved to our own place, I started doing our own changes by myself. About the rest - you're sure right. I did end up replacing the drums (myself), and they were not warped prior to replacing the shoes. I'm still thinking hard about how to approach this issue with them.
Break shoes "Locking up" to Drums
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Being that we moved to our own place, I started doing our own changes by myself. About the rest - you're sure right. I did end up replacing the drums (myself), and they were not warped prior to replacing the shoes. I'm still thinking hard about how to approach this issue with them.
Wikano
New member
I had a similar problem when my rear axle seal leaked all over my left rear drum. After went to a shop to have my brake pads (saturated with axle grease), the drum itself (300,000 miles on it), and the axle seal replaced, I was a happy camper until i got a weird vibration coming from the rear.
After one or two days of these weird vibrations, my left rear caliper seized and locked the rear left brake while on the freeway, going 60+. I was able to get off the freeway safely, but when I looked at my drum it was smoking!
Ultimately, the old caliper couldn't handle the new brake pads and drum, or that is at least what the shop told me. After getting some free work done, new calipers and brake drum, I haven't had this problem since!
p.s. I also had some vibrations several years ago when I would hit certain rpms in higher gears. That turned out to be worn spider joints.
Hope this helps.
After one or two days of these weird vibrations, my left rear caliper seized and locked the rear left brake while on the freeway, going 60+. I was able to get off the freeway safely, but when I looked at my drum it was smoking!
Ultimately, the old caliper couldn't handle the new brake pads and drum, or that is at least what the shop told me. After getting some free work done, new calipers and brake drum, I haven't had this problem since!
p.s. I also had some vibrations several years ago when I would hit certain rpms in higher gears. That turned out to be worn spider joints.
Hope this helps.
Follow up question here:
As you know, the shoes were 'stuck' onto the drums, and had some excessive wear, both drums and shoes are new (less than 300 miles on them). - Both rear .
I noticed this wear on the top part of one of the shoes, I assume it's nothing to worry about - just making sure that the 'grit' showing on the upper side of the shoe in not excessive wear which may prematurely hurt the drums.
Thank you.
As you know, the shoes were 'stuck' onto the drums, and had some excessive wear, both drums and shoes are new (less than 300 miles on them). - Both rear .
I noticed this wear on the top part of one of the shoes, I assume it's nothing to worry about - just making sure that the 'grit' showing on the upper side of the shoe in not excessive wear which may prematurely hurt the drums.
Thank you.
Attachments
From the PDF that was posted here:
"Find your trucks cable slack adjuster, usually under the drivers seat area, under the truck."
The (new) Bell crank has been attached to the plate, currently being held by two screws, nothing else.
When I try to connect the E. brake cable (from the back) to the bell crank, It takes a considerable amount of stretching in order to position the holes right on top of one another in order get the pin through them, I assume that's not right.
Referring to the quote at the beginning of this post - should I give more slack to the cable using the slack adjuster ? would it be under the car, right under the driver's seat area ? (The PDF relates to Tacoma and warns that other models may have different setup).
Thank you.
"Find your trucks cable slack adjuster, usually under the drivers seat area, under the truck."
The (new) Bell crank has been attached to the plate, currently being held by two screws, nothing else.
When I try to connect the E. brake cable (from the back) to the bell crank, It takes a considerable amount of stretching in order to position the holes right on top of one another in order get the pin through them, I assume that's not right.
Referring to the quote at the beginning of this post - should I give more slack to the cable using the slack adjuster ? would it be under the car, right under the driver's seat area ? (The PDF relates to Tacoma and warns that other models may have different setup).
Thank you.
Grenvilleter
New member
Some slack adjustment can be found right at the hand/parking brake lever.
If you peer in under the rubber where your hand brake exits into the cab, you will see 2 little nuts (8 mm ?) threaded onto the e-brake cable. By loosening these back, you will get more slack in the cable.
As I have not ripped mine apart yet, there may be (probably) another point where you can adjust slack in the cable from under the truck but I honestly have not looked yet.
If you peer in under the rubber where your hand brake exits into the cab, you will see 2 little nuts (8 mm ?) threaded onto the e-brake cable. By loosening these back, you will get more slack in the cable.
As I have not ripped mine apart yet, there may be (probably) another point where you can adjust slack in the cable from under the truck but I honestly have not looked yet.
TheDurk
Elite Member
That part may be different on the Tundra.
Adjust brake first, then get slack at the e-brake handle if you need it:
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Thanks, I thought that assembling the pads / adjusters first should work better, I'll do that.
The E. brake lever is pushed down now (all through the job), once the shoes/adjusters are back in place and I'll try to re-attach the E.brake cable (from the back) to the bell crank :
1. Should I attach the springs (bell crank) prior to attaching the cable ?
2. How much tension is acceptable when pulling on the cable ? I assume that if I'm pulling with considerable amount of strength, then I'm over stretching the cable ? - unless I'm wrong here , and that cable should be under a serious amount of tension..
I did read all the PDF's, (thank you) if I'm asking something that's already there - it's only because I did not fully understand it.
Thanks.
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TheDurk
Elite Member
My replies in orange.
Oh man.. I was sure it was fixed.. but, driving down from Nashua NH, on a short 60 mile trip, in the last mile on the way home I felt the begining of the well known vibrations, jacked up the rear of the car shortly after getting home, and both wheels are very hard to spin (E.brake relased, car not in gear).
I took some pictures but they came out too dark, I'll try and take some more when the sun comes up...
I only replaced the stuck bell crank, I plan to replace the second one as well, the second one does not seem to be stuck, so I don't think it's the one casueing to wheels to get stuck again.
Any ideas on what can be going wrong ? I drove about 150 miles after replacing the bell cranks and there were no issues, untill today again.
Thanks.
I took some pictures but they came out too dark, I'll try and take some more when the sun comes up...
I only replaced the stuck bell crank, I plan to replace the second one as well, the second one does not seem to be stuck, so I don't think it's the one casueing to wheels to get stuck again.
Any ideas on what can be going wrong ? I drove about 150 miles after replacing the bell cranks and there were no issues, untill today again.
Thanks.
Jayzero911
New member
what..... you sure your bellcranks didn't stick again? Maybe forgetting a spring somewhere? And you said both wheels are locked up even after replacing one of the bellcranks?
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I followed all instructions on the bell carnk how to, and I think I did it right.
Yes, both wheels get stuck, the left one more than the right one.
I did not check the hubs after the fact, I'll have to that.
I think it might be the way I'm installing the drums after assembling the shoes.
The Chilton guide calls for 'no more than 6mm of difference between the inner drum diameter and the outer shoes diameter (after they have been installed)'.
I don't have a long enough caliper to measure those differences, so I might be assembling the drums with the shoes expanded too tight ?
On another note - what if the drums are installed when the difference is larger than 6mm ? I assume braking performance will not be good, but isn't there a self adjusting mechanism that will compensate for this over-gapping ?
UTEP
New member
Bummer,
Could you please re list all the work you've done, all the parts replaced and what brand quality.
Mine was solved by replacing:
Wheel cylinders, Napa made in Italy
Shoes, Napa made in USA
Springs, Duralast made in USA
Taking all apart and cleaning like shiny.
Polished back plate at contacts
Filed and polished shoes at contact points
Lubed with high quality brake grease at all moving points.
Checked and confirmed bell crank adjustment and operation
Turned oem drums
Flushed entire brake system.
Adjusted to a slight rub, 7-9 clicks on the ebrake handle.
4runner brakes are the most finicky I have ever worked on by far and I have been doing my own brakes for 30 years. I was ready to do a disc brake mod!
Good luck!
Utep
Could you please re list all the work you've done, all the parts replaced and what brand quality.
Mine was solved by replacing:
Wheel cylinders, Napa made in Italy
Shoes, Napa made in USA
Springs, Duralast made in USA
Taking all apart and cleaning like shiny.
Polished back plate at contacts
Filed and polished shoes at contact points
Lubed with high quality brake grease at all moving points.
Checked and confirmed bell crank adjustment and operation
Turned oem drums
Flushed entire brake system.
Adjusted to a slight rub, 7-9 clicks on the ebrake handle.
4runner brakes are the most finicky I have ever worked on by far and I have been doing my own brakes for 30 years. I was ready to do a disc brake mod!
Good luck!
Utep
No, when all systems cool down, the wheels are still stuck. When taking off the wheels, I do need to turn the adjuster a few clicks down in order to be able to release the drums off. Before replacing the drums, I had to use the 8x1.25 bolds in order to force the drums off.
No issues have been encountered until shop changed wheel cylinders and shoes and after me returning to them and letting them know the brake pedal was too mushy and E. brake handle with more than usual freeplay, they made an adjustment which resulted in strong ride vibrations in the next long drive I made.
After the above I replaced:
Brake drums, cheep as crap(from auto-zone), but they were the only ones I could get fast, I should have machined my existing ones, but could not find a local shop to do it, car parts store guy also did not know of one.
After the above, I was able to drive a 100 miles nice and free, jammed again, found out the left bell crank was not resting back, replaced it per instructions kindly posted by 'TheDurk', (the other side pending replacement, but it does return to rest right).
Drove another 150 miles and the vibrations again, lifted the rear, wheels stuck and need considerable arm force to nudge a bit.
They are not getting as 'stuck' as they did before, might be because I'm checking their spin a few miles right after the vibrations start, or because the new drums are still nice and round, I assume they will not keep their roundness for too long in this pace.
When I pull the drums off, on one side - the left one - there is more brake dust which looks like brake shoe material spilled into the drum than there is on the other side.
I'm 99% sure the shop did not bleed the brake lines after replacing the cylinders, can air in the lines cause these kind of symptoms ?
After the above I replaced:
Brake drums, cheep as crap(from auto-zone), but they were the only ones I could get fast, I should have machined my existing ones, but could not find a local shop to do it, car parts store guy also did not know of one.
After the above, I was able to drive a 100 miles nice and free, jammed again, found out the left bell crank was not resting back, replaced it per instructions kindly posted by 'TheDurk', (the other side pending replacement, but it does return to rest right).
Drove another 150 miles and the vibrations again, lifted the rear, wheels stuck and need considerable arm force to nudge a bit.
They are not getting as 'stuck' as they did before, might be because I'm checking their spin a few miles right after the vibrations start, or because the new drums are still nice and round, I assume they will not keep their roundness for too long in this pace.
When I pull the drums off, on one side - the left one - there is more brake dust which looks like brake shoe material spilled into the drum than there is on the other side.
I'm 99% sure the shop did not bleed the brake lines after replacing the cylinders, can air in the lines cause these kind of symptoms ?
Jayzero911
New member
Air in the lines would not do this, the peddle would be mushy and thats it. So now we know its not (or no longer is) the E-break. Did you replace the break hardware (springs and such)? Or how are you adjusting the breaks? Turning the nut tell the shoes touch the drum and keep if from free spinning, then turning it back about 1/2 a turn has always been my rule of thumb. Another thing I wondering if the shop left a break line clamp on it somewhere. But the simplest thing to me sounds like you over adjusted, would be able to tell you if I was there and could hear it grinding.
Edit: O and if you bleed the breaks at any time always pump the the peddle a few times after you bleed and before you adjust anything. but don't do like I did and pump them with the drums off you will blow the wheel cylinders. (I was working the front breaks and another guy the back, he walked away, and w/o thinking about it I finished my part of the job "pumping the peddle".)
Edit: O and if you bleed the breaks at any time always pump the the peddle a few times after you bleed and before you adjust anything. but don't do like I did and pump them with the drums off you will blow the wheel cylinders. (I was working the front breaks and another guy the back, he walked away, and w/o thinking about it I finished my part of the job "pumping the peddle".)
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