Cost of Ownership on Icon or BP-51

[Rack]

Lefty,
You stated " I Do all on Road commuting" so I take it this is your only vehicle.
You might want to think about buying an inexpensive commuter car to do you daily driving and keep your 4X4 for the weekends.
This way you save on wear and tear, oil changes, tires, and GAS.
A inexpensive commuter cost less to maintain, less gas.
Insurance companies give discounts on multi vehicles and one driver.
Now you will not have to worry about rebuilding your suspension as often, new tires, oil changes ect.
I learned a long time ago "If you uses your commuter vehicle to off road on the weekends you will be calling in sick on Monday and going to work on Tuesday in a rental car".
I learned the hard way. since then I have always had a grocery runner to do the daily drives and kept the 4x4 for the weekends.
What you save in maintenance and gas will pay for the second car. as long as you don't over buy.
I bought a used Datsun and the difference in gas and maintenance between the two paid for itself in no time.
The only problem with all this is you won't look as COOL.

 

[JSparky]

I appreciate the advice. All good points.
I have the base model GX, I purposely chose not to get the air suspension knowing this was coming. the stock KDSS is fine for on-road but as soon as I leave the pavement I am ready to ditch it.

I am aware of the big bumpers and angles, the type of roads I go on this is not a real huge concern. I thought back to all of the roads I did in my previous car which was a 4th gen 4R with OME 3" and 33" tires. I have already done some of those same roads in this car and the ones I haven't done yet I wont have any issues with the approach angle only the clearance. These are the kind of roads I do:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockechrisj/36812606414/in/dateposted/" title="Getting Muddy"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/4486/36812606414_c40516d7fd.jpg" width="500" height="400" ></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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I have the ability to do the work myself. I am mechanical and have done many other changes to this and my 4R myself. Its not a matter of if I am able to, more of a CYA. The labor costs are high, but piece of mind of the install and warranty. If I ran in to a roadblock doing it myself I would be in a bind figuring it out. The cost I am more interested in is the cost I will have to service the Icons or the BP-51.

I spent more time today reading about other peoples reviews on other suspensions for the GX and it still keeps me wanting to go this route, once I understand the extra costs

Peace of mind would have me doing it myself haha. If you’re in Colorado take it to Slee Off-road (I think I saw you were in CO?), top tier shop and everything will be done right.


A lot of gx’s have XREAS, so there’ll be some time involved taking that out, adding to install prices.

Any aftermarket rebuildable shock will require service at some point.. check customer service reports to see how people feel. In my experience, Radflo and ADS have been easy to work with. Radflo was more “take a number get in line”... ADS you call and can talk to the builders to dial things in. Fox was not good, you only ever talked to sales people. Dobinsons is big on here and for good reason too, fantastic support.

If it were me, I’d invest in a company who will work for/with you. Good luck, I wanna see your lifted GX!

 

[MAST4R]

Some very good replies above though not everyone realizes that the GX suspension is not 4R suspension.

Anyway, if stock is not an option, then the BP51 seems as the winner for the intended use. Above, too, the BP51 seems to get the nod for street driving, as it should.

The BP 51 vs Icon 2.5 is not apples for apples.

The BP51 is 2.0 with internal bypass that acts soft presumably always in your intended use but will allow you to do just fine when you hit something hard by mistake. I am not able to quickly find the BP shaft size but I bet it is smaller than the 7/8s used on 2.5 shocks. Since you cannot push the otherwise stock GX so hard as to need more than what the ARB offers on the far end of travel, you have a shot at getting what you need from the ARB 100% of the time. Whether it is worth the money over stock is another question and really not an interesting one for most of us since that is your business.

BUT, not so with the Icon 2.5, which is a much more powerful shock. Even if you downgrade the Icon springs, you will have a stiffer setup than the BP51 that, as said earlier, the GX will never use as intended, leaving you basically with the wrong setup 100% of the time. So this is not merely a matter of money, but a technically wrong choice for the intended application from what I can tell.

As for adjusters, they are not magic. No, I have never had them but I have talked personally with the owner of Radflo and listened carefully to others with lots of experience. The adjusters are for fine tuning. They will never correct for having the wrong setup in the first place.

So in this case, it looks like BP51 should be in the running and Icon 2.5 should not be.

My 2c.

 

[Mudballz]

I agree but I will add the bp51 are cheaper in price but not quality
Mike

 

[jk24runner]

Hit up Anthony at toytec, he used to have a GX on 35’s. Between him and Hugo they will point you in the right direction. They sell all of the above choices. They have a few different shop trucks with all different suspensions on the, and am willing to bet they would let you take a ride. I do see a lot of GX’s rolling out of that shop with the BP-51.

 

[jackjoachim]

Not on topic check out IH8MUD.com and the 150 forum. also the Facebook group GXOR is probably the best resource for GX460 info.

 

[leftyguns21]

[MENTION=130546]Rico696[/MENTION] great info thanks! glad to hear about the longetivity. I wont be pushing them as hard as it sounds like you do, if I am able to get 3 years between rebuilds that would be great. I am in the mindset of getting what I want the first go round, this threads been helping me narrow down.
[MENTION=103801]sn_85[/MENTION] I have been talking with Toytec, and most likely will use them to get the work. silly reason, but I hate the color red so Toytec kits are not an option. Toytec has steered me towards OME over Icons
[MENTION=111688]Rack[/MENTION] I am mostly work from home now. Awhile back I did look in to a 2nd car for commuting for all the reasons you mentioned, but with working from home so much now it doesnt make sense to have a 2nd car. I have only driven 8000 miles since last July and that includes a couple of road trips that account for a lot of those miles.
[MENTION=96425]JSparky[/MENTION] I am in CO and have spoken to Slee. I have had work done by them in the past. They too are suggesting the BP51's
[MENTION=306890]MAST4R[/MENTION] The BPs are 2" diameters, I see more GX's with the Icons. Or the Dobinsons. Not sure what stages other GX owners get. The 1 and 2 have the 2" while 3 and up add the VS2.5. Icons have been my preferred from the start, the stage 2, but after reading lots more on the BPs I am thinking this is the right route
[MENTION=124298]jackjoachim[/MENTION] I have spent time on IH8MUD, they have a few good threads for the BPs

 

[MrGainzz]

Elka owner here who drives a 4Runner as a daily driver and does occational off-roading. I contacted Elka about the frequency of maintenance and they recommend a rebuild every 50K miles based on my application.

 

[leftyguns21]

I finally made a decision and had the suspension installed by toytec here in Colorado and sure glad I did. I went with the OME BP-51's with medium springs, SPC UCAs and did the front end diff drop. It was their first time doing a GX with this setup and they had some fitment issues. This was the reason I wanted a professional to do it instead of me tackling it. The brackets didn't fit on one side (cant remember which one) so they used one of their toytec brackets with some modifying and got it all to fit. Looks fantastic! They did full articulation and full lock with zero rubbing on the UCA or fenders but it is really close, I can barely get any fingers between the UCA and tire. Down the road when I am ready for new tires I may also get new rims with a different off-set. The ride on these so far, is amazing. night and day difference from stock. bumps in the road or turns (from like driveways) that would normally make the car roll or rebound slowly are gone. It mows these bumps over and rebounds back to normal quick style. I have only driven on-road so far and its been ultra plush ride. The adjustments for the compression / rebound are going to be a PITA to get to with the wheels on, I think I can if I get the wheels full turned on fronts and in the rear I get underneath the vehicle. I will start messing with those and dial in the ride even more
I went with toytec over slee cause they were by far the most friendly and helpful. Slee has a great reputation don't get me wrong, but they really seemed like they could care less. Anthony and Mike at toytec were great, super friendly and helpful. Plus they are closer to my house

Before and after measurements I took in my garage from the floor to the bottom of the fender. This is with KO2's 265/70/18s
Rear:
36 1/2
391/4
Front:
35 3/4
38 3/4

2nd picture is the drivers side front. the last is the passenger side front, you can see where they needed to do some cutting to get the reservoir to fit

 

[leftyguns21]

Several months later update.

I have taken multiple road trips and completed a few trails since upgrading the suspension. Very happy with my decision and how well they are holding up. One road trip was over 1,200 miles which was combo of on and some off roading. Suspension did great, made for a very comfortable ride.

I have only done one adjustment, I adjusted the compression setting to give me a little softer ride.

 

[Mudballz]

I agree 5000 miles and they are perfect adjustable and comfortable :zoom:
Can’t wait for weather changes and some challenges
Mike

 

[leftyguns21]

I agree 5000 miles and they are perfect adjustable and comfortable :zoom:
Can’t wait for weather changes and some challenges
Mike

when I adjusted mine it was a lot tougher than I was thinking. I spray waxed them as suggested from Toytec but they were pretty stuck from all the gunk/dirt. I used a spray bottle with soap/water and really covered them even that didn't help much. Is there any spray lubricant I should use? I wasn't sure about how that would affect them so I didn't and just kept cranking on it until it finally moved.

 

[Mudballz]

I used dry lube and coat it after every oil change so far I’m good
Mike

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

Great info in this entire thread!

Like the OP I have roughly the same driving style. 40% on road/ traveling with a full load, 40% daily driver(empty), 20% off-road; mostly fire roads, the annual trip to OBX that requires 10miles driving on the beach one way, and a trip here and there to the DBBB; that in itself is darn near rock crawling lol.. but I try to avoid overly technical stuff..

I am comparing the BP51 (and their high price) to a complete Radflo 2.5" long travel 650lb front spring, including rear links and brake lines. Pretty close in price..

I know it isn't a apples to apples comparison... but if you look at performance per dollar and also customization (can you change out the springs on the BP51?) if I add bumpers down the road. Radflo has got it in the bag! It would be WAY overkill for what I need... But It would do everything I want without breaking a sweat!

The BP51 on the other hand seem very "set and forget" I would say very OEM+ like the Pro Bilsteins and Fox options. Also their 3 year warranty is amazing!

 

[zippinbye]

Like a lot of you folks here, I've installed my own suspensions. The last was a Dodge 3500 one ton truck; everything scaled to heavy and extra-beefy - no rust and plenty of room to work, plus a natural amount of high ground clearance prior to jacking up. Pretty easy in my garage on a creeper. Getting old, grumpy and lazy, so I'm thinking of having a shop do my KDSS GX 470 mods. Anybody ever use 4 Wheel Parts for suspension purchase and installation? Our store is #45 and it looks like they are all over the country, but somewhat weighted to the West. I've shopped there for parts, usually finding them to be competitive compared to other local stores, but easy to beat online.

 

[MAST4R]

I am comparing the BP51 (and their high price) to a complete Radflo 2.5" long travel 650lb front spring, including rear links and brake lines. Pretty close in price..

I know it isn't a apples to apples comparison... but if you look at performance per dollar and also customization (can you change out the springs on the BP51?) if I add bumpers down the road. Radflo has got it in the bag! It would be WAY overkill for what I need... But It would do everything I want without breaking a sweat!

The BP51 on the other hand seem very "set and forget" I would say very OEM+ like the Pro Bilsteins and Fox options. Also their 3 year warranty is amazing!

Those comments seems to nail it. to me, Radflo looks like more fun if you want to be involved and BP 51 looks like the better option if you would rather 'set and forget'.

The Radflos should be much easier to DIY service or get help but the OME may have more consistent production quality.

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

Those comments seems to nail it. to me, Radflo looks like more fun if you want to be involved and BP 51 looks like the better option if you would rather 'set and forget'.

The Radflos should be much easier to DIY service or get help but the OME may have more consistent production quality.

That doesn't help me decide! lol :frusty:

 

[MAST4R]

That doesn't help me decide! lol :frusty:

Haha, I know, right?

It should not be hard though.

The BP 51 is specifically engineered for OZ-style, heavy trips and for higher lifts.

The Radflo can be set to deliver more performance in a variety of scenarios.

If you are going to be heavy with full steel bumpers and lots of luggage will you ever really use the Radflo's advantages?

So, BP-51 for overlanding and Radflo for more performance oriented offroading be it going at a decent speed through rough terrain or going over bigger rocks.

Radflo may be able to make you bypasses as well all for the price of the standard BP 51.

So that's the longer version of "being more involved with varied offroading" vs "set for overlanding and forget".

And then there is the issue of lift. I have seen 0 evidence for bigger lifts being useful in fact I am sure they make things worse: a bigger lift skews wheel travel and reduces vehicle stability in off camber situations. The Radflo can work with a variety of lifts but the BP 51 forces I believe a minimum of 2.5" which ruled it out for me right there.

A lot of people, including myself at an earlier time, obsess about clearance but in fact that is typically about suspension being too soft thereby reducing clearance when you need it and driver inexperience. The minimum static ground clearance that will clear the rocks of interest is the best. 1"-2" lift with good skids and suspension is enough for all normal difficult trails. Beyond that, it is play stuff and for that the 5 gen is a bad choice anyway.

 

[Mudballz]

I still think for the quality of the BP51 it’s the best choice for going anywhere reliably!!! The adjustabliity and construction make it a great choice
:fencing:
Mike

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

Haha, I know, right?

It should not be hard though.

The BP 51 is specifically engineered for OZ-style, heavy trips and for higher lifts.

The Radflo can be set to deliver more performance in a variety of scenarios.

If you are going to be heavy with full steel bumpers and lots of luggage will you ever really use the Radflo's advantages?

So, BP-51 for overlanding and Radflo for more performance oriented offroading be it going at a decent speed through rough terrain or going over bigger rocks.

Radflo may be able to make you bypasses as well all for the price of the standard BP 51.

So that's the longer version of "being more involved with varied offroading" vs "set for overlanding and forget".

And then there is the issue of lift. I have seen 0 evidence for bigger lifts being useful in fact I am sure they make things worse: a bigger lift skews wheel travel and reduces vehicle stability in off camber situations. The Radflo can work with a variety of lifts but the BP 51 forces I believe a minimum of 2.5" which ruled it out for me right there.

A lot of people, including myself at an earlier time, obsess about clearance but in fact that is typically about suspension being too soft thereby reducing clearance when you need it and driver inexperience. The minimum static ground clearance that will clear the rocks of interest is the best. 1"-2" lift with good skids and suspension is enough for all normal difficult trails. Beyond that, it is play stuff and for that the 5 gen is a bad choice anyway.

Ive never really thought of it like that, all very good points!

If I have the Pro Bilsteins (+1" over standard 4Runner) Will the BP51 net me +2" more than what I have now?

I am also kind of wondering if I should consider a simple Billy 5100 setup. The beauty of that is, when they crap out they are affordable enough to just replace them..


Its a hard choice.. there is a reason the "overland" market is booming... sadly I admit, I am really turned on by the 3" lift w/remote rezies, and 285s.. just like a jeep on 35s.. "everyone is doing it"

At the same time, I am pretty set on 255/75 tire..