Cost of Ownership on Icon or BP-51

[MAST4R]

Ive never really thought of it like that, all very good points!

If I have the Pro Bilsteins (+1" over standard 4Runner) Will the BP51 net me +2" more than what I have now?

I am also kind of wondering if I should consider a simple Billy 5100 setup. The beauty of that is, when they crap out they are affordable enough to just replace them..


Its a hard choice.. there is a reason the "overland" market is booming... sadly I admit, I am really turned on by the 3" lift w/remote rezies, and 285s.. just like a jeep on 35s.. "everyone is doing it"

At the same time, I am pretty set on 255/75 tire..

If you are +1" now, you will get to +2.5" or +3" total with the BP 51.

I call +1 the actual normal height for the 4R. I think it is lowered for the US vs the Prado platform. The CVs are reverse angled at the stock height and perfect at just under 1". So anything from 0 to 2" of lift is good. I think this is also why +3" is not a big problem for the CVs. Because I think it is really +2.

The one issue is wheel travel, very debated on this forum. See, most people don't believe that you get +1" from the Bilstein Pro and the 6112 but you surely do, just as Toyota said in ads. No need for aftermarket UCAs to get it. It is there, just underdone with the stock front. But I don't know how non-Bilstein fronts handle that. So to do it right for offroading at +3", you have to spend a lot of time and money, UCA and all. To do it right at +2", you need nothing but new coilovers. So lots of pain for half an inch of clearance!

Now, the 5100 series is very cheap. I guess it should handle pretty well on the road and will do any rock crawling and regular forest roads just fine. But once you start really using it, like driving faster over rough forest roads with embedded rock, it will not do well. It will get harsh and won't last very long, I bet. In the desert, that much less.

Also, be careful with rear shocks. Many are advertised with a big range which makes no sense. They should be advertised for 1.5" of difference, like 0-1.5 or 1.5-3 or 2-3 or 0-1. The Icon 2.0 advertised for 1-3 should really only be 2-3. And so on. It matters a great deal where the piston is at rest.

If the rig's offroad exploits are mild in length, roughness, OR speed (choose 2 but not all 3 with lower-end setups) then the 5100 may be all that is needed. Speed as low as 20 mph can be far too much for small shocks under the right conditions.

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

If you are +1" now, you will get to +2.5" or +3" total with the BP 51.

I call +1 the actual normal height for the 4R. I think it is lowered for the US vs the Prado platform. The CVs are reverse angled at the stock height and perfect at just under 1". So anything from 0 to 2" of lift is good. I think this is also why +3" is not a big problem for the CVs. Because I think it is really +2.

The one issue is wheel travel, very debated on this forum. See, most people don't believe that you get +1" from the Bilstein Pro and the 6112 but you surely do, just as Toyota said in ads. No need for aftermarket UCAs to get it. It is there, just underdone with the stock front. But I don't know how non-Bilstein fronts handle that. So to do it right for offroading at +3", you have to spend a lot of time and money, UCA and all. To do it right at +2", you need nothing but new coilovers. So lots of pain for half an inch of clearance!

Now, the 5100 series is very cheap. I guess it should handle pretty well on the road and will do any rock crawling and regular forest roads just fine. But once you start really using it, like driving faster over rough forest roads with embedded rock, it will not do well. It will get harsh and won't last very long, I bet. In the desert, that much less.

Also, be careful with rear shocks. Many are advertised with a big range which makes no sense. They should be advertised for 1.5" of difference, like 0-1.5 or 1.5-3 or 2-3 or 0-1. The Icon 2.0 advertised for 1-3 should really only be 2-3. And so on. It matters a great deal where the piston is at rest.

If the rig's offroad exploits are mild in length, roughness, OR speed (choose 2 but not all 3 with lower-end setups) then the 5100 may be all that is needed. Speed as low as 20 mph can be far too much for small shocks under the right conditions.

Maybe it might be best to stick with my gut and go with the BP51.

They have a lot to offer (with a price tag to match). They seem to hit a sweet spot in the market. They aren’t necessarily going to let you bomber a crossed a desert road, but you might be able to once or twice. Maybe more if you really adjust the compression and rebound on point.

And they’re not necessarily low end like what I consider the 5100s or simple Dob or OME set up.

You get remote res, rebuild ability, backed by a awesome company for 3 years!

I wonder if the BP51 is height adjustable? If I could gain +2” overall (+1 over stock Pro) that might be awesome! I know they come pre loaded but nothing really says in black and white if 1)the end user is supposed to adjust preload, and 2) If it will lower the height and soften the ride.

I don’t have additional weight of bumpers, I’ve thought about a rear swing out but it will be awhile. I only have a 100lb Gobi and probably 100lb of sliders. And I bet I get close to 200-300lbs in the trunk when traveling.

I was thinking of going with their medium weight spring. Like I mentioned if I could soften the preload slightly 2 or 3 turns?


Thanks for your info! You’ve provide some very good insight. Sounds like you really know your stuff.

 

[Mudballz]

BP51 can answer all on your checklist ride height quality and adjustable from Cadillac ride to stiffer then viagra overload :llama:
Mike

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

BP51 can answer all on your checklist ride height quality and adjustable from Cadillac ride to stiffer then viagra overload :llama:
Mike

Doing a little more research…. Now I discovered the Billy 8100s and the Elka set up… [emoji30]

The Elka looks nice, corrosion resistant and no tools needed to adjust dampening. They are also adjustable ride height. [emoji848]

 

[MAST4R]

Doing a little more research…. Now I discovered the Billy 8100s and the Elka set up… [emoji30]

The Elka looks nice, corrosion resistant and no tools needed to adjust dampening. They are also adjustable ride height. [emoji848]

I am not sold on the Elka, but I have learned about the 8100 series, currently waiting on my second 8100 rear shock. I have been in some contact with folks at Bilstein for years.

A buddy here got the 8112 but like me has just a single 8100 for now so he cannot do anything because his currently stock rear bottoms out at the sight of a woop.

There is no more advanced setup, unless you special order something, than the 8100 series for a 5th gen 4Runner. If you can get it for 4,000, it is also a "bargain" relative to the best Fox off the shelf setup in that the Bilstein is a much more sophisticated design for just a bit more money.

This has the Zone control video for the 8112. The next batch will include adjustable compression which you don't really need in the front (unless doing dunes)
BILSTEIN B8 8112 (ZoneControl(R) CR). - BILSTEIN

The 8112 comes standard with soft 550lb springs making for a great road ride. Unlike the 6112 on the same springs, it is better performing offroad with 550 from the little I was able to experience. I am sure it will suffice for your application. For now, I stick with 6112 on 650. It is a capable setup at low cost. Not plush on road, but not harsh with LTE tires either.

I can better answer 8100 questions. I have installed the one I have but it is coupled with a temporary Eibach on the other side My Icon 2.0 are disassembled with no oil.

One thing to know with the 8100s is that these are effectively race shocks. Their adjustments are not easy. You have to get under the vehicle to adjust compression and lift from the rock slider to adjust rebound. They are really performance oriented.


The 8100 is a step up from BP 51 or Fox 2.5, which are great in their own ways, but I am not sure you can really benefit from it considering your location. The BP 51 seems like a pain to adjust but may be easier than 8100s which are race style shocks and can in fact last a Baja 1000 You don't need hydraulic bump stops with the 8000 series setup though you don't need those anyway unless you do desert or dunes or a lot of beach. In normal use, road and dirt roads, the 8000 series may be able to last 100k between servicing. I personally hope for 50k with my use. My small non-resi Icons began to leak at 10k.

EDIT: for reference, one 8100 has more than 2.5 times the amount of oil in a 5100. It has a full 60 mm piston, the largest alongside KIng, also 60; Fox is 58. BP is 51.

EDIT 2: I expect the supply shock to swing the other way before too long with too much supply hitting a saturated market. I am not sure it will happen for this coming Thanksgiving, but while I don't expect better nominal prices I do expect actual holiday deals to re-appear in 2022. This excludes Bilstein 8000 series though. They have a very firm pricing and unless they now up the prices considerably so as to have wiggle room later, I don't see discounts exceeding 10% on the 8000 series. It is artisan style, premium shock produced in relatively small quantities and each shock is individually tested before it is sent on its way. It is not a mass produced unit. The quality of all hardware is great and the unit I have looks like it belongs on a spaceship, lol.

At the end, BP-51 may be just what you need. But 8000 series is surely a temptation

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

My only hang up on the BP51 right now is how it will ride with a relatively stock truck.. like I mentioned I have 150lbs in sliders and 100lbs Gobi rack. A few other odd and ends.. pump, slim recovery gear. Prob all together totals 50lbs.

And also I feel like +3” might be slightly aggressive for reasons you mentioned. Wish I could dial them down to 2”-2.5” and run them with oem UCAs.

Hopefully my “build” will be around this time next year. But I am starting to source things now. It’s kind of humorous that my two “contenders” Billy 6112/5160 with a 650lb spring, and BP51 are totally different in price and performance. But both equally great and I consider top tier in the respective category.

 

[MAST4R]

My only hang up on the BP51 right now is how it will ride with a relatively stock truck.. like I mentioned I have 150lbs in sliders and 100lbs Gobi rack. A few other odd and ends.. pump, slim recovery gear. Prob all together totals 50lbs.

And also I feel like +3” might be slightly aggressive for reasons you mentioned. Wish I could dial them down to 2”-2.5” and run them with oem UCAs.

Hopefully my “build” will be around this time next year. But I am starting to source things now. It’s kind of humorous that my two “contenders” Billy 6112/5160 with a 650lb spring, and BP51 are totally different in price and performance. But both equally great and I consider top tier in the respective category.

I think the OME can do 2.5". Just verify the spring. They are adjustable on both compression and rebound, front and rear, so you should be able to "dial it down" if needed. But it all starts with the spring rate. I think 600lb front is the sweet spot for most shocks. If OME is 650 that should do with softer settings and heavy tires. In my experience heavy tires want a stiffer suspension and vice-versa.

The 5160 has poor rep which is why I have had 3 aftermarket rear shocks but not the 5160. The 5100 will be fine with 6112 on 550s but there is no obvious fit for the 6112 on 650 which is why I am going directly to 8100 instead of experimenting further.

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

I like how we took over this thread today. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787].

Not to discredit any advice you’ve given me. But is there a second guru i can talk to that knows BP51s… Slee?

 

[leftyguns21]

I like how we took over this thread today. [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787].

Not to discredit any advice you’ve given me. But is there a second guru i can talk to that knows BP51s… Slee?

Slee seemed very dis-interested when I was looking. Talk to toytec lifts. Great customer service

I have had this setup for a year now and still very happy with it
lots of miles and long road trips / light off-roading. I do not have bumpers but I carry a drawer system, rack, RTT and swing out. the BP51's have been great.

 

[EmotionCRZ]

I upgraded to BP-51s last week. I had a Dobinson 2inch lift prior, just twin tube shocks. I am very impressed with the ride so far on the BP-51s. You can feel the suspension working at each corner over bumps. Definitely worth the money in my opinion. :nerd:

 

[MAST4R]

I upgraded to BP-51s last week. I had a Dobinson 2inch lift prior, just monotube shocks. I am very impressed with the ride so far on the BP-51s. You can feel the suspension working at each corner over bumps. Definitely worth the money in my opinion. :nerd:

Do you mean twintubes? They do have monotubes with and without resi, with and without adjusters.

 

[EmotionCRZ]

Oops, yes you are correct. I had the Twintubes.

 

[EmotionCRZ]

I see you live in Ohio. I live in New England, and one of the big factors that helped me decide on the BP-51 is the coating of the shocks. We have lots of salt on the roads here, and these really stand up to harsh winter conditions from my research. Kings and others seem to rust very quickly.

My only hang up on the BP51 right now is how it will ride with a relatively stock truck.. like I mentioned I have 150lbs in sliders and 100lbs Gobi rack. A few other odd and ends.. pump, slim recovery gear. Prob all together totals 50lbs.

And also I feel like +3” might be slightly aggressive for reasons you mentioned. Wish I could dial them down to 2”-2.5” and run them with oem UCAs.

Hopefully my “build” will be around this time next year. But I am starting to source things now. It’s kind of humorous that my two “contenders” Billy 6112/5160 with a 650lb spring, and BP51 are totally different in price and performance. But both equally great and I consider top tier in the respective category.

 

[Mudballz]

Went through 1 nyc winter zero hang ups with salt or snow the BP51 performed flawlessly
Height out of the box gives you close to 2” lift had them on truck before any weight rode like a Cadillac now with many accessories winch roof rack lopro bumper no difference just adjust the comp/rebound setting :guitar3:

 

[kosei]

My only hang up on the BP51 right now is how it will ride with a relatively stock truck.. like I mentioned I have 150lbs in sliders and 100lbs Gobi rack. A few other odd and ends.. pump, slim recovery gear. Prob all together totals 50lbs.

And also I feel like +3” might be slightly aggressive for reasons you mentioned. Wish I could dial them down to 2”-2.5” and run them with oem UCAs.

Hopefully my “build” will be around this time next year. But I am starting to source things now. It’s kind of humorous that my two “contenders” Billy 6112/5160 with a 650lb spring, and BP51 are totally different in price and performance. But both equally great and I consider top tier in the respective category.

I run the bp51 on my stock 2012 sr5. I set the preload to 5mm and gained about 2 inch lift. Compression set at 2 and rebound at 6. still playing with the setting but it rides butter smooth.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Do you mean twintubes? They do have monotubes with and without resi, with and without adjusters.

Gah twin tubes suck donkey dong.

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

I see you live in Ohio. I live in New England, and one of the big factors that helped me decide on the BP-51 is the coating of the shocks. We have lots of salt on the roads here, and these really stand up to harsh winter conditions from my research. Kings and others seem to rust very quickly.

Went through 1 nyc winter zero hang ups with salt or snow the BP51 performed flawlessly
Height out of the box gives you close to 2” lift had them on truck before any weight rode like a Cadillac now with many accessories winch roof rack lopro bumper no difference just adjust the comp/rebound setting :guitar3:

I run the bp51 on my stock 2012 sr5. I set the preload to 5mm and gained about 2 inch lift. Compression set at 2 and rebound at 6. still playing with the setting but it rides butter smooth.

What do you guys run for UCA's with your BP51s?

 

[EmotionCRZ]

I have SPC. I wanted to get the OME ones that just came out, but my shop recommended the SPC because they are more adjustable.

 

[leftyguns21]

I have had some trouble adjusting the suspension, it is really difficult to get to and they get dirty. what is everyone else using to clean / lubricate? I don't know if i can use something like simple green in there. I have used the hose and sprayed in there, also been trying a spray bottle with soap but it doesn't appear to be helping much. I want to play around with them more and adjust to see if can dial it in even more

I wasn't having any rubbing issues but it was close on the UCA. I have since swapped out the wheels and tires. I went from 18" down to 17" and a -15 offset to 0 offset. This change made a world of difference too. its tough to explain but you can feel a genuine difference in ride
Method 701s in matte black with KO2 285/70/17.


<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockechrisj/51095043059/in/dateposted/" title="GX Starry Nights"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51095043059_97cec52080_c.jpg" width="800" height="640" alt="GX Starry Nights"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[SendInTheCavalry]

I have had some trouble adjusting the suspension, it is really difficult to get to and they get dirty. what is everyone else using to clean / lubricate? I don't know if i can use something like simple green in there. I have used the hose and sprayed in there, also been trying a spray bottle with soap but it doesn't appear to be helping much. I want to play around with them more and adjust to see if can dial it in even more

I wasn't having any rubbing issues but it was close on the UCA. I have since swapped out the wheels and tires. I went from 18" down to 17" and a -15 offset to 0 offset. This change made a world of difference too. its tough to explain but you can feel a genuine difference in ride
Method 701s in matte black with KO2 285/70/17.


<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockechrisj/51095043059/in/dateposted/" title="GX Starry Nights"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51095043059_97cec52080_c.jpg" width="800" height="640" alt="GX Starry Nights"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Very nice! I was hoping to run anywhere from -10 to -18 depending on the wheel I am able to find. Between Relation RR4 (-12), SCS BR6 (-10), and BlackRhino Baker (-18).

Also planning on running 255/75-17