Custom Front Shackel Mounts?

Unobtanium!! Nothing like an Avatar movie reference!:thumb3:
Sorry man, we have been trying to find that stuff since I was in college. Had a professor that was part of the Manhattan Project and worked on the initial testing of the A Bomb that first told me about that elusive material. Every now and then a design comes around that, in order to work, unobtainum is needed for a material spec. Needless to say those designs get scrapped. [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] I will work on your question later and post an answer tomorrow.
Staining a bookshelf and waiting for it to dry right now.
 
Sorry man, we have been trying to find that stuff since I was in college. Had a professor that was part of the Manhattan Project and worked on the initial testing of the A Bomb that first told me about that elusive material. Every now and then a design comes around that, in order to work, unobtainum is needed for a material spec. Needless to say those designs get scrapped. [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] I will work on your question later and post an answer tomorrow.
Staining a bookshelf and waiting for it to dry right now.

[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] - The first time I was exposed to the word was in the movie Avatar. When EddieBx used the word I got a chuckle since I knew we were not going to Pandora to mine ore like they were doing in the movie!
 
My photoshop does look kinda nice doesn't it?:)

However, from my research posted by [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] on 5-3-2012 via this link on page two I thought maybe I should ask around to see if there were any other options.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/59697-tow-hook-placement-bad-2.html#post1058273



I would use them if I was in a pinch but I was just curious if there was anyone else out there that might have come up with another option. I won't lie, the eyelets didn't look heavy duty to me and I would be afraid of the damage I might cause if I where to use them.

If I am being over cautious here guys, let me know.
The factory recovery points seem pretty stout to me . It's what I've used and seen used many times without fail and what the Toyota Trail teams guys recommend. You can see in this video... http://youtu.be/j8aWyusmSjo

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Pretty sure "unobtainium" is what oakley trademarked their rubber nose and ear pieces are made of.lol
From Oakley!
Stays in Place
To make sure the frame stays secure during sport competition, the nosepiece and stem sleeves are made of Oakley Unobtainium®. It’s a proprietary synthetic that actually increases grip with perspiration.
 
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Informative video......gives me a bit more piece of mind. I was picking the brain one of my local dealers " Master Techs" and he matter of factly told me that those loops were really only meant for strapping down the vehicle for transportation and he had seen people yank them off using them for recovery. Told me to use the rear hitch instead but I know that isn't always a practical option. I won't stress it but I will say that sand is an easy pull with a snatch strap.
 
@eddiebx- Unobtanium!! Nothing like an Avatar movie reference!:thumb3:


and here I thought he was talking about the crypto currency :)

the movie "The Core" used it and it was referenced in the book "Ringworld" if I remember correctly, its been a while since I've read the book again.
 
Someone here pissed you off? No way.

Serious question Greg, could you enlighten us about using those receiver hitch to shackle adapters and their durability when used for dynamic recovery? I think it was [MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] that brought up a good point a while ago about using a CURT front hitch for recovery and questioning if it was safe or not.

The way I understand it is, the front receiver hitch is rated for a certain straight line pull amount, same as the hitch pin holding the shackle adapter in place; but these "max working load ratings" are most likely for a gentle constant pulling force (like from a winch or something?). And probably not meant for a hard tug like during a dynamic recovery, right?

So let's say for example the CURT front hitch is rated at 9,000 lbs, is there any way to determine if this is safe enough for dynamic recovery? And the same goes for the hitch pins...would any typical one do, or you need to find some unobtanium version to be safe, lol.

Sorry about the in-depth question and if I am using any terms wrong...I've always been curious about this since all of you guys here have made me overly cautious about all things recovery :) (and for good reason!)

Alright [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION], you have officially asked me the most complex question to date! So here goes:

(disclaimer: in order to understand this explanation you need to understand physics and upper level math. In order to not reinvent the wheel I pulled selected links from the internet to help with the explanations. Everything here applies to a general condition but every recovery is unique with it's own set of challenges. Use this information at your own risk because recovering a vehicle is inherently dangerous. The data presented looks correct to me but I did not go through and check every single formula or conversion. I will try to write this so non engineers and physicists will understand. Use this as a general guide only!)

In reality, the recovery point on a vehicle is important, but not as important as the recovery method or equipment.
Let's start by addressing the actual question of "Is a front mounted receiver safe for a vehicle recovery?" The answer is, you guessed it, yes and no lol. Let me explain:

Without knowing the actual material specs of the hitch and the actual conditions in which the recovery is taking place I cannot tell you whether the hitch mount will fail. If the manufacturers tell you the rating though you should take that number as gospel. But in reality, what does this rating mean?

Well, the rating has to be used in context. Eddie mentioned that a "winch pull would be gentle and a hard tug would put more force on the vehicle." That could be true or not. If you are making a STATIC recovery (vehicle is stationary and a winch or come along is being used for example) the loads being transmitted will be more constant (instead of gentle) compared to a DYNAMIC recovery (vehicle is stationary and pulling vehicle is moving) that means forces will change considerably. Let's take a few examples:

Example 1: Vehicle is stuck and a winch is being used with wire rope connected to another vehicle.
In this example, the winch puts out a known force. The vehicle that is the "tie down" vehicle is a known weight and we all know that force required to slide the tie down vehicle across the dirt is much less than the weight of the vehicle right? This is a static recovery, for all intents and purposes used here today. This method is used quite often and is very straightforward. There is minimal rope stretch and the forces transmitted will be limited to the force required to slide the anchor vehicle or get the vehicle unstuck. You can also keep going and if your winch has enough pulling force this will continue until something fails. The math here is simple: Winch develops “X” amount of force on “Y” wrap and “Z” force is required to break free the stuck vehicle. If your components are good for the “Z” force you will be fine. If not, well...

Example 2: Vehicle is stuck and another vehicle is pulling it with a recovery strap.
This is an example of a DYNAMIC recovery. The strap is designed to stretch and by doing so will “ramp up” the transmitted forces. It will go from zero to maximum forces required to break the vehicle free from it’s position, the total amount of force able to be generated or until something fails.

Now THIS math is quite a bit different. It’s one thing to have something at rest, or static. It’s a different ball game when something is moving! The math, while straightforward, might require a primer. I have included a few links here:

This link should be used to understand the concepts Kinetic energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This link should be used to better understand the relationships of vehicle dynamics http://filebox.vt.edu/users/hrakha/Publications/ASCE Constant Power Truck Acceleration Model.pdf

This is a nice link explaining recovery straps and their strength properties How To Choose A Recovery Strap Or Tow Strap - YouTube

Here is another link on the basic equipment needed for recovery Road to Recovery

And here is a link that goes through the math of making an actual recovery Offroadtb.com Dynamic Recovery

I have taken an excerpt from this last link that you should find pertinent to this conversation. In these series of calculations he is showing the differences of using a proper recovery strap, a static strap (non stretch) and a chain. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST! Why? [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] asked me if using a front hitch was a safe recovery point. I answered “yes” and no” and the following explanation will justify my answer. As you will see in his three examples, just by changing the equipment has changed the transmitted forces tremendously!

“The effects of using a non-dynamic connector:
We’ll use an average 5,000 lb vehicle as our example recovering vehicle. The two vehicles are attached with the strap, loose at first. The recovering vehicle proceeds forward with a bit of gas, reaching only 5 mph when reaching the end of the strap. At this point the vehicle has gathered kinetic energy equal to 1/2*mass*velocity^2.
KE = 0.5 * 5000 lb * (5 mi/hr)^2 = 5.7 kJ
We will assume for this instance that the stuck vehicle will remain stuck and will not budge (worst case)… so all of the recovering vehicle’s energy transfers into the strap and is turned into elastic potential energy. This stored energy will be equal to the kinetic energy that the truck had. This stored energy relates to the force exerted on each end by the following: energy = average force * distance. The distance is how far the strap stretches. The average force is assuming the rope exerts constant force, which ours does not. Because it’s force exerted most closely resembles a linear relationship to the stretch, the average force should be multiplied by 2 to get the maximum exerted force (which is all we are interested in here)… assuming the system reaches equilibrium without failure.

In instance 1, we will use a dynamic strap, which can stretch about 6 feet.
5.7 kJ / (6 ft) * 2 = 2,089 lbf (well within the safe range of most straps)

For instance 2, we used a static strap, which we will assume stretches only 4 inches before reaching equilibrium.
5.7 kJ / (4 in) * 2 = 25,072 lbf (enough to snap a strap or possibly rack your frame)

For the last instance, what if we used a chain, which has extremely minimal stretch. So we will say 0.5″…
5.7 kJ / (0.5 in) * 2 = 200,576 lbf (you will certainly break something!!)

So, I hope this gives you a real world, numerical understanding of why dynamic straps should ALWAYS be used in dynamic vehicle-to-vehicle recoveries.
* I did not show unit conversions for the sake of simplicity (there were a lot)”


Well! Now you guys should see that not all pulls are created equal! Same conditions, same vehicles, the only thing that changed was the connecting method!
I have used all three methods of connection in the past. We have even taken a hydraulic cylinder with a pressure gauge attached, mounted the cylinder in the connecting straps and used the pressure to measure the force developed during drawbar pull tests. These ratios are very close to our actual testing conclusions.

So, to summarize, IF you use the proper methods for recovery a front mounted receiver with the proper hooks should be fine. Even the OEM hooks will suffice with the proper recovery technique. I hope this answers your questions. Oh, don’t try to use these calculations for your own application unless you really understand the math. This guy left out a LOT of steps and conversions but it kept it simple and easy to understand.
 
Allow me to summarize, kinetic forces are very different then dynamic forces. You cannot go off of static weight ratings on equipment when the equipment is seeing dynamic loads applied.
Don't make this question more difficult than it is.
 
What the hell is going on here??? Just use the factory recovery ponts that toyota designed and built into your vehicle!!!! Take a closer look, they are stout as hell. Remove your front air dam if you need to make them more accessible.

Even if there was a shackle bracket that went in place of a hidden winch mount. I would put my money on ~5/8" loops factory-welded to the frame any day over an aftermarket bolt-on peice.
 
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In these series of calculations he is showing the differences of using a proper recovery strap, a static strap (non stretch) and a chain. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS POST! Why? [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] asked me if using a front hitch was a safe recovery point. I answered “yes” and no” and the following explanation will justify my answer. As you will see in his three examples, just by changing the equipment has changed the transmitted forces tremendously!
This is often where many recoveries go south - people using static (tow) straps and chains for dynamic recoveries instead of a proper recovery (snatch) strap or kinetic recovery rope. You also always want the strap/rope to be the weakest part of the equation so that it's the first thing to break - better to have a strap snap back than a piece of metal.
 
This is often where many recoveries go south - people using static (tow) straps and chains for dynamic recoveries instead of a proper recovery (snatch) strap or kinetic recovery rope. You also always want the strap/rope to be the weakest part of the equation so that it's the first thing to break - better to have a strap snap back than a piece of metal.

Yes, I just wanted to show that no matter what you attach to on your vehicle you can break it if you use the wrong recovery technique.
 
What the hell is going on here??? Just use the factory recovery ponts that toyota designed and built into your vehicle!!!!

I too have used them without problems. The issue I think is that Toyota does not officially call them recovery points *corrections allowed*

While it may seem like a good idea to add and leave D rings there I would not for the reasons mention along with the danger of them getting banged on a rock. Carry them in the truck and use as needed.

There are tons of smart people here - maybe somebody could design something that attaches to the frame and somehow comes out through a hole in the front plastic.
 
I too have used them without problems. The issue I think is that Toyota does not officially call them recovery points *corrections allowed*

While it may seem like a good idea to add and leave D rings there I would not for the reasons mention along with the danger of them getting banged on a rock. Carry them in the truck and use as needed.

There are tons of smart people here - maybe somebody could design something that attaches to the frame and somehow comes out through a hole in the front plastic.

I agree on the shackles. Most times you'll have to unscrew them to use anyway

Here's a hidden winch mount that has recovery points built-in. I guess the OP could just use it for that and not mount a winch.
Toyota 4runner Undercover Hidden Winch Mount System
 
In instance 1, we will use a dynamic strap, which can stretch about 6 feet.
5.7 kJ / (6 ft) * 2 = 2,089 lbf (well within the safe range of most straps)

For instance 2, we used a static strap, which we will assume stretches only 4 inches before reaching equilibrium.
5.7 kJ / (4 in) * 2 = 25,072 lbf (enough to snap a strap or possibly rack your frame)

For the last instance, what if we used a chain, which has extremely minimal stretch. So we will say 0.5″…
5.7 kJ / (0.5 in) * 2 = 200,576 lbf (you will certainly break something!!)

Call me a geek, but putting it down as formulas makes me finally understand it all much better because it puts things in perspective :) Very useful post for me at least, THANKS 1000x for taking the time out to type it up! Remember boys and girls, pack a scientific calculator with your recovery gear from now on :cheers:
 
Have not seen that one before, thanks. But where arethe built-in recovery points?

I've never seen one on a 4runner. My buddy had one on his Taco. This isn't his (just a image off the web) but you get the idea:

undercoverhwms006.jpg
 
^ Nice! We need something like that. A while ago I asked Bud if he could offer the same and I got the usual 'we are working on it' :ohwell:
 
So, to summarize, IF you use the proper methods for recovery a front mounted receiver with the proper hooks should be fine. Even the OEM hooks will suffice with the proper recovery technique.

Thanks [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]! I really appreciate your time writing this up for everyone. Reading your write up (paying attention to instance 1 specifically) and watching the video posted by [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] really brings it all together. I know what I will be doing from here on out on the beach if required.
 
Allow me to summarize, kinetic forces are very different then dynamic forces. You cannot go off of static weight ratings on equipment when the equipment is seeing dynamic loads applied.
Don't make this question more difficult than it is.

Oops, saw a typo in my original message - don't know how "kinetic" forces went from my head to the keyboard, but I meant to say static. The #1Engineer was nice enough to point out that typo to me. (He is super helpful that way).

In any event, this can be explained as easy as this... Dynamic straps are much better at dissipating energy than non-dynamic straps. Forces are spread out with dynamic straps. This is the reason bungee jumpers use highly elastic cord instead of a utility rope from my dad's barn.

Moral of the story: don't go yanking on the front of somebody's rig without a strap that can dissipate the energy of the "yank"!
 
Remove your front air dam if you need to make them more accessible.

and therein is the problem for me at least. on the 2014, the factory location sits higher than the bodywork, so in my case, I would have to remove the front bumper and rear bumper to not damage those pieces.

I will have to take pics to show what I am talking about.

but on initial question I added to this thread, how would I extend that factory mount point lower to make it usable for when I need to pull it out of say a snow bank, etc during my winters up here.

and trust me, when its -20F that bodywork don't need much pressure to crack when its that brittle due to cold.
 
Oh hell, we are talking about beach recovery? Use the factory front loops but better yet buy yourself one of these for the rear

R8610L.gif


And with all the money you saved buy a compressor so you can air up your tires.
 

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