Deep snow consensus?

[Tone]

Hi,
New here and looking for advice on a T4R or other.
I spend most my winters in Tahoe and ski patrol most weekends.
Currently have a '13 outback 3.6R with 4 snow tires
3rd OB i've had and it's great but interested in a truck with more ground clearance and always wanted a T4R.

Issue I've had is I often need to leave before the plows come in and high centered the OB a couple times on the driveway/main roads usually when there's more the 10" of heavier snow.

So would I see much benefit with the additional 0.9" of ground clearance and potential locking diff?
I also do have to go back and forth to the Bay (3hr drive/180mi each way) regularly so do value comfort and quiet for biz phone calls.

Assuming 4 snow tires all around, what vehicle if any do you think I'd see much benefit for these requirements??

1. T4R Offroad or Pro w locking rear diffs (9.6" grnd clr)
2. T4R Limited (a lot of comments the AWD is better and you can add a locker? (9.6" grnd clr)
3. Range Rover Sport (10.9" grnd clr up to 30mph w/ locking center diff)
4. MB G550 (9.3" grnd clr/ 3 lockers: front, rear, & center)
5. Stick with an outback (8.7" grnd clr)

I know price points are very different between these options, but ignore that for now, will I notice material difference in the options above & what would you pick)?

or anything else i should consider? (no jeeps; had em, great for rocks, but not for reliability)

thanks for your advice

 

[e60ral]

in heavy snow AWD isn't an advantage, but if i lived in that kind of climate I would want AWD for the mixed condition stuff

if you didn't like the jeep reliability, knock that range rover off your list

definitely no to the G550, it's completely dated and yet somehow despite being based on the same vehicle for decades still manages to have crappy reliability

 

[Matters]

Hi,
New here and looking for advice on a T4R or other.
I spend most my winters in Tahoe and ski patrol most weekends.
Currently have a '13 outback 3.6R with 4 snow tires
3rd OB i've had and it's great but interested in a truck with more ground clearance and always wanted a T4R.

Issue I've had is I often need to leave before the plows come in and high centered the OB a couple times on the driveway/main roads usually when there's more the 10" of heavier snow.

So would I see much benefit with the additional 0.9" of ground clearance and potential locking diff?
I also do have to go back and forth to the Bay (3hr drive/180mi each way) regularly so do value comfort and quiet for biz phone calls.

Assuming 4 snow tires all around, what vehicle if any do you think I'd see much benefit for these requirements??

1. T4R Offroad or Pro w locking rear diffs (9.6" grnd clr)
2. T4R Limited (a lot of comments the AWD is better and you can add a locker? (9.6" grnd clr)
3. Range Rover Sport (10.9" grnd clr up to 30mph w/ locking center diff)
4. MB G550 (9.3" grnd clr/ 3 lockers: front, rear, & center)
5. Stick with an outback (8.7" grnd clr)

I know price points are very different between these options, but ignore that for now, will I notice material difference in the options above & what would you pick)?

or anything else i should consider? (no jeeps; had em, great for rocks, but not for reliability)

thanks for your advice

Either of the 4Runners with dedicated snow tires (I swear by Nokians) will work great. The limited is nice if you don't want to worry about switching in and out of 4wd like you will on the other 4Runner models. This was an important selling point for my dad when he got his because my mom and sister drive it from time to time and have zero desire to even attempt understanding how to engage 4wd. They just want to hop in and drive safely to a destination. Something to consider if you have anyone driving the car that isn't a "car person".

Matt

 

[alphabeast]

Hi,
New here and looking for advice on a T4R or other.
I spend most my winters in Tahoe and ski patrol most weekends.
Currently have a '13 outback 3.6R with 4 snow tires
3rd OB i've had and it's great but interested in a truck with more ground clearance and always wanted a T4R.

Issue I've had is I often need to leave before the plows come in and high centered the OB a couple times on the driveway/main roads usually when there's more the 10" of heavier snow.

So would I see much benefit with the additional 0.9" of ground clearance and potential locking diff?
I also do have to go back and forth to the Bay (3hr drive/180mi each way) regularly so do value comfort and quiet for biz phone calls.

Assuming 4 snow tires all around, what vehicle if any do you think I'd see much benefit for these requirements??

1. T4R Offroad or Pro w locking rear diffs (9.6" grnd clr)
2. T4R Limited (a lot of comments the AWD is better and you can add a locker? (9.6" grnd clr)
3. Range Rover Sport (10.9" grnd clr up to 30mph w/ locking center diff)
4. MB G550 (9.3" grnd clr/ 3 lockers: front, rear, & center)
5. Stick with an outback (8.7" grnd clr)

I know price points are very different between these options, but ignore that for now, will I notice material difference in the options above & what would you pick)?

or anything else i should consider? (no jeeps; had em, great for rocks, but not for reliability)

thanks for your advice

I have both an Outback and 4Runner. Though I do not often have to deal with 10+ inches of snow, its hard to beat the AWD and the lower center of gravity of the Outback. For overall handling, and only losing less then an inch in overall clearance, I would stick with the Outback. I dont know if a rear locking diff would gain you much in heavy (translate - deep) snow, but maybe someone with more experience can chime in on that.

 

[1engineer]

It's not so much about the true "lowest point" ground clearance in deep snow. It's how far you can go before you high center. That means when the snow has lifted your vehicle ( due to snow depth pushing on all the underside of your vehicle, not just the low hanging parts) to a point that you cannot get sufficient traction to move. The 4Runner will go through 18" or so before it gets tough. Two feet and it really struggles but can do it. Over that and you are stuck lol. I am speaking from experience and this is fresh snow, not packed snow. Also, while snow tires are great for snow, once you get into deep snow nothing will help you when your frame finally rides up on top of the snow and you lose ground pressure. Any model is fine in deep snow.

 

[cbuchanan87]

I have a 16 Limited 4WD with Bridgestone Deuler AT tires. It's great in the Michigan winters. I'm a sales rep for medical trauma products so I'm on the road when needed regardless of time or conditions. The full time 4WD feels more like an AWD system in many vehicles. It works well when I'm driving along and hit a snow storm. If I'm heading out when there is already a significant amount of snow on the ground, I just put it in 4WD High. I can tell the difference when it's in 4H, but the normal driving mode (full time 4WD) works well for most conditions I've encountered.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jetboy]

Everything 1engineer said.

I would add that snow varies a LOT in density, traction, etc. But frame clearance is a big deal. The 4runner is as good as any on the list. With snow tires at full pressure, they're probably all pretty similar. Lockers help.

If you want to go in really deep snow - you want the biggest tire you can put on the smallest wheel you can fit on the lightest vehicle at the lowest tire pressure. So the LR is probably the worst of the group (big wheels. heavy). The 4runner is the best. The MB is somewhere in between, mostly because it's very heavy. I'd take the 4runner 1st (TRD OR/PRO 1, LTD 2 - in deep snow awd is not what you want), OB 2nd, MB 3rd, and LR 4th.

 

[nglayton]

It's not so much about the true "lowest point" ground clearance in deep snow. It's how far you can go before you high center. That means when the snow has lifted your vehicle ( due to snow depth pushing on all the underside of your vehicle, not just the low hanging parts) to a point that you cannot get sufficient traction to move. The 4Runner will go through 18" or so before it gets tough. Two feet and it really struggles but can do it. Over that and you are stuck lol. I am speaking from experience and this is fresh snow, not packed snow. Also, while snow tires are great for snow, once you get into deep snow nothing will help you when your frame finally rides up on top of the snow and you lose ground pressure. Any model is fine in deep snow.

I used to have a 1st Gen back in the day. An 87, it was great. I once got caught in a snow storm up in the mountains camping and hunting. It snowed as deep as the top of the hood overnight and we decided we need to get the f' out, because well we had no clue when it was going to stop snowing. I chained up all 4 tires, and drove at about a mile with the snow coming over the front top of the hood. It was fresh snow, I was the first track and it went smooth as butter. Never once did it wedge up underneath the rig forcing the wheels off the ground. Finally we got into the trees again and the snow levels dropped way down enough for us to get to lower elevations easily. I should have gotten pics of this event, but we were worried about getting out....

To wedge up like you describe would take some sort of strange circumstance.
Like being packed down by progressively higher vehicles in front of you. Even then it's not like a ramp would be formed. It's all just one level, whatever level that is will be determined by the guy in front of you..

Once you hit the hit snow it is just scrapped off at whatever level you are at and pushed forward. You would be more likely to spin out because the mass of snow in front is greater resistance than the wheels are able to push forward even with 100% contact to the ground. So tires/chains will make a huge difference in the amount of traction you can get and how much you can push.

Of course bouncing over a hump and then landing on top with not enough clearance to reach the ground again is a different story.

I wish I would have never sold that 1st Gen, I miss it. Has anyone tried putting chains on all 4 with a 5th Gen?

 

[Ryan1975]

I used to have a 1st Gen back in the day. An 87, it was great. I once got caught in a snow storm up in the mountains camping and hunting. It snowed as deep as the top of the hood overnight and we decided we need to get the f' out, because well we had no clue when it was going to stop snowing. I chained up all 4 tires, and drove at about a mile with the snow coming over the front top of the hood. It was fresh snow, I was the first track and it went smooth as butter. Never once did it wedge up underneath the rig forcing the wheels off the ground. Finally we got into the trees again and the snow levels dropped way down enough for us to get to lower elevations easily. I should have gotten pics of this event, but we were worried about getting out....

To wedge up like you describe would take some sort of strange circumstance.
Like being packed down by progressively higher vehicles in front of you. Even then it's not like a ramp would be formed. It's all just one level, whatever level that is will be determined by the guy in front of you..

Once you hit the hit snow it is just scrapped off at whatever level you are at and pushed forward. You would be more likely to spin out because the mass of snow in front is greater resistance than the wheels are able to push forward even with 100% contact to the ground. So tires/chains will make a huge difference in the amount of traction you can get and how much you can push.

Of course bouncing over a hump and then landing on top with not enough clearance to reach the ground again is a different story.

I wish I would have never sold that 1st Gen, I miss it. Has anyone tried putting chains on all 4 with a 5th Gen?

Yeah - I have cables - want to buy Vbars for this winter and put them over 265 KO2s.

 

[cbuchanan87]

I have a 16 Limited 4WD with Bridgestone Deuler AT tires. It's great in the Michigan winters. I'm a sales rep for medical trauma products so I'm on the road when needed regardless of time or conditions. The full time 4WD feels more like an AWD system in many vehicles. It works well when I'm driving along and hit a snow storm. If I'm heading out when there is already a significant amount of snow on the ground, I just put it in 4WD High. I can tell the difference when it's in 4H, but the normal driving mode (full time 4WD) works well for most conditions I've encountered.

Hope this helps.

I would like to add that prior to this vehicle I had a 3rd Gen Limited. I traded it in on a '13 Ford Explorer (which I traded on my current 4R Limited). Both of which were great in the snow when 4WD was engaged. If 4H wasn't engaged, they both lacked control. I can tell a major difference between both of them and the full-time 4WD of the current 4DRunner.

 

[JohnTheLuck]

OP, be aware that KDSS system reduces ground clearance to 8.9 inches, not 9.6.

 

[1engineer]

I used to have a 1st Gen back in the day. An 87, it was great. I once got caught in a snow storm up in the mountains camping and hunting. It snowed as deep as the top of the hood overnight and we decided we need to get the f' out, because well we had no clue when it was going to stop snowing. I chained up all 4 tires, and drove at about a mile with the snow coming over the front top of the hood. It was fresh snow, I was the first track and it went smooth as butter. Never once did it wedge up underneath the rig forcing the wheels off the ground. Finally we got into the trees again and the snow levels dropped way down enough for us to get to lower elevations easily. I should have gotten pics of this event, but we were worried about getting out....

To wedge up like you describe would take some sort of strange circumstance.
Like being packed down by progressively higher vehicles in front of you. Even then it's not like a ramp would be formed. It's all just one level, whatever level that is will be determined by the guy in front of you..

Once you hit the hit snow it is just scrapped off at whatever level you are at and pushed forward. You would be more likely to spin out because the mass of snow in front is greater resistance than the wheels are able to push forward even with 100% contact to the ground. So tires/chains will make a huge difference in the amount of traction you can get and how much you can push.

Of course bouncing over a hump and then landing on top with not enough clearance to reach the ground again is a different story.

I wish I would have never sold that 1st Gen, I miss it. Has anyone tried putting chains on all 4 with a 5th Gen?

As [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] said there are different snows. You must have been out west in low moisture content snow or powder. Back east, it does exactly as I described as the snow is usually wet here. I live 15 minutes from a ski resort. I see it every year lol for the past 40 years.

 

[MTN4RNR]

My experience in deep snow is that center ground clearance will help a lot to reduce your drag moving forward. If deep snow is your concern, I would lean more towards an aggressive all terrain / hybrid tire (BFG AT, Cooper ST Maxx / AT3). They will clear snow much better than a dedicated snow tire, but will suffer more in icy conditions versus winter tires. My perfect Tahoe rig would be as follows:

• 1.5" - 2.5" lift for additional clearance up front at your lowest point
• Tall skinny tires that can dig down to traction in deeper snow (or widen out to a nice footprint if you air down)
• Keep it as light as possible overall
• Aluminum skids to help with "the toboggan effect" and being able to slide with a smooth belly
• A winch and a light front bumper / hybrid bumper to get you out when you do get stuck
• A GOOD set of chains (RUD) to help you on the really bad days. It's amazing how far you can go with chains and a locker/ATRAC...

Ultimately when it comes to snow, there will be days when your rig is set up perfectly for the conditions, and others when you won't be as happy. Unless you have both AT's and dedicated winter tires that are on separate rims so you can swap for either a heavy snow day, or a cold/icy day.

Good luck!

 

[xravexboix]

The highlights of the Pro wouldn't help, so I would stick with the Trail instead. If you want the look of the pro, it can all be had and the price, after mod, would still come in less than the Pro.

As stated, the clearance across the board is fine. The big thing to keep in mind is that the 4Runner body clearance is much higher (though the diff clearance is as you stated, about an inch better than the subbie). The subbie's overall clearance will still be lower, which is likely causing the high center issues.

The 4Runner is as comfy as it gets unless you move into the luxury market, but due to the weight, the higher end vehicles end up having their own small issues. I would rent a 4Runner SR5 4x4 for a weekend and try it out first before making the decision. Just be mindful that the tires are still the biggest change needed to get where you want it to be.

 

[GottaSkiBC]

Hi,
Assuming 4 snow tires all around, what vehicle if any do you think I'd see much benefit for these requirements??

1. T4R Offroad or Pro w locking rear diffs (9.6" grnd clr)
2. T4R Limited (a lot of comments the AWD is better and you can add a locker? (9.6" grnd clr)
3. Range Rover Sport (10.9" grnd clr up to 30mph w/ locking center diff)
4. MB G550 (9.3" grnd clr/ 3 lockers: front, rear, & center)
5. Stick with an outback (8.7" grnd clr)

I know price points are very different between these options, but ignore that for now, will I notice material difference in the options above & what would you pick)?

I have a 2009 Outback and a 2015 SR5 (although I just got it so no winter yet). The SR5 is replacing a 2011 MB GL350, before that I had a 2006 Nissan Frontier Crew. Like you I'm skiing a couple times a week, on the road before plows, dealing with mixed ice, dry/wet snow, and new snow depths up to 12" or so... my impressions:

Outback handles the best in all conditions. With good winter tires (currently Michelin x ice) I barely think about what the conditions are like - i just get in and go. For this reason this is my wife's daily driver, but I do occasionally drive it to the mountains. Only downside in that its smaller and a bit of a squeeze for the two of us plus two kids (+ski gear) even with a roof box. The roof box also interferes with the rear hatch - which is annoying. I know the 2009 outback is a bit smaller than what you have. I never got it stuck or high centered (nothing I couldn't "rock" out of) but snow here tends to be drier/lighter.

GL350 handled the snow/ice really well, AWD system seemed to move the big GL with ease. Only once did I raise the air suspension in deep snow. It's huge and we've actually put 2 adults + 4 kids in with gear no problem. I lived in fear about getting stuck because it is such a huge/heavy vehicle - maybe that was irrational. MB reliability sucks... that's why I'm now in a 4Runner.

Frontier was pretty good, it's a part-time 4wd like the SR5. It was definitely a truck and I always felt like I had to really pay attention when driving in snow. I expect the SR5 will be similar - full time 4WD / AWD would've been nice.

If snow performance was the only thing I was thinking about I think I'd stick with the Outback. I'm sure a T4R will work for you, but I can't imagine it'd be a huge improvement to the Outback (you'll have more clearance, but on a heavier vehicle).

 

[engineeer]

Take this with a grain of salt as my experience with winter/snow driving is limited since I don't live in Tahoe, but rather drive up there to snowboard.

I did one winter (~14 days) in a 2016 Range Rover Sport (without the center locking diff) and one winter (~30 days) in my 2017 TRDP (part-time 4WD).

The Range Rover Sport felt a little more planted and in-control while driving around due to the better suspension. That being said, I had the feeling that I could take on more in the 4Runner once I got used to it.

The only thing I didn't like about the switch from FT 4WD (RRS) to PT 4WD (non-Limited 4R) is when the conditions are not fully one way or the other. There have been a few times when the road goes from dry to wet/snowy/icy without much time between. If you don't want to worry about that, go with the Limited and get some good A/T tires--I like the KO2s for year-round driving (regular roads, off-road, snow, etc.).

Edit: for the record, I don't really miss my RRS. There are things about it that I miss that the 4Runner doesn't have, but overall I'm happy I sold the RRS and bought the 4R.

 

[JSparky]

If you're considering the Range Rover sport perhaps throw the Lexus GX460 into the mix. Same chassis as the 4runner, full time 4wd, v8, and luxury.

 

[TVille]

1engineer and MTN4RNR are correct. I have high centered a 7,000 pound Suburban on snow, all four wheels off the ground. This is probably 80 miles North of where 1engineer is (4 miles SW of High Knob for those interested). Snow was probably 2 feet deep. I have also taken the same Suburban through 4-feet of snow, breaking over the hood. Depends on the snow.

I also had a Forester, and I would take the full time, electronically controlled full time 4WD system over the AWD of Subaru. Being able to put power to one tire as you can with the ATRAC (or whatever its called) system may mean the difference of stuck or going. The Subaru system is very good, just the electronically controlled FT4WD is better, in my opinion.

I like MTN4RNR's list. I would go with BFG ATs or similar, with the snow and ice rating.

 

[8000m]

To wedge up like you describe would take some sort of strange circumstance.

Not really, at least in a front wheel drive sedan. I spent many an hour over the years digging out snow packed under the high-centered front wheels. Did it to my F250 a couple of times too.

No, I'm not a lousy driver-- 20+ years with 500 yard long driveway exposed to the howling winds of the Minnesota winter. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you don't....

Wet snow is much worse than dry snow. I had a full size road grader stuck in the driveway in wet, icy snow once (not high centered of course). The driver had to chain up and wasn't very happy--those chains are heavy!

 

[nglayton]

You must have been out west in low moisture content snow or powder. Back east, it does exactly as I described as the snow is usually wet here. I live 15 minutes from a ski resort. I see it every year lol for the past 40 years.

It indeed was in the Pacific Northwest and you are correct it was pretty dry powdery snow. I can see how wetter snow could have been a bigger issue. Getting into packed icy snow would create different challenges.

After that experience, I felt like I could climb a tree with my 1st Gen