Disconnecting sway bars - front? and/or rear?

I'm disconnected and removed in the front. When I bought it, it was front and rear disconnected. I couldn't stand the on-road with no sway bar so I installed the rear. The front springs are firm enough I can go around corners as quick as I want. I don't know how it handles with the front on. My wife doesn't like driving it on-road, but that's ok and I just don't think she's had enough wheel time in it.

As far as sway bar disconnect being useless, I'd have to see the same truck run some trails with and without to make that determination. My truck without the front and with the rear is pretty flexible. Has to be pretty extreme to lift a tire.
 
So, last week I rotated tires and noticed both of my front end links were broken that hold the sway bar. After reading on here quite a bit it seems many have removed them, (the front only) for a better ride. Is that the consensus? I don't do any off roading, just street, and want the best ride. Suspension is stock, besides the HD Bilstein's.

Best ride is front rear connected. Offroad front disconnected.
 
So, last week I rotated tires and noticed both of my front end links were broken that hold the sway bar. After reading on here quite a bit it seems many have removed them, (the front only) for a better ride. Is that the consensus? I don't do any off roading, just street, and want the best ride. Suspension is stock, besides the HD Bilstein's.

Hey dude this is just my 2 cents but if you aren't concerned about your life and have no general worry about flipping the truck then go ahead and remove the sway bars to drive on pavement.

I did it for six months. But then my shocks felt worn out and the truck swayed a lot on the road. And I also watched that youtube video of a stock 4Runner (with sway bars on btw) completely flipping on the test track back in the 90s. Well anyways I decided the smart thing to do was keep the sway bars on.

My belief is you need the sway bar on for those rare moments **when** YOU NEEDTHE SWAY BAR. It may only be a few times a year or even less but that moment when you need it and don't have it installed could change your life.
 
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Hey dude if you aren't concerned about your life or in general worry about flipping the truck then remove the sway bars and drive on pavement. I did it for six months. But then my shocks felt worn out and the truck swayed a lot on the road. And I also watched that youtube video of a stock 4Runner (with sway bars on btw) completely flipping on the test track back in the 90s. Well anyways I decided the smart thing to do was keep the sway bars on .

I can't believe people drive these rigs without any sway bars. I disconnected mine to troubleshoot a noise earlier this week. Driving with no sway bars was not a good feeling at all. It really leaned, and didn't feel safe at all without pushing the truck at all.

People please keep your sway bars connected. Yeah maybe you can drive just fine under normal circumstances, but as soon as you need to do an emergency maneuver you're screwed.
 
After bending the rear sway bar on the trails I have since driven my truck off-road without either of the sway bars. The truck has front sway-a-way coilovers and 2.5" lift, not having the sway bars significantly increases body roll pitch. More specifically, dips or bumps on long sweeping turns going in excess of 60mph becomes a little hairy. If you're planning on commuting your truck regularly I would not suggest removing them, unless you're into feeling like a stadium super truck pulling into the McDonalds drive thru.
 
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i have a 96 4runner with 3 inch spacer lift up front with stock most likely well worn springs, in the back i have a 2.5 inch spacer lift with rancho extended shocks and stock sagging springs. these worn out components flex really well for me. with both sway bars connected using a forklift i flexed my runner out and it measured 14.5 inches from the bottom of the tire to the floor. the rear flexed really great. i disconnected the front sway bar and did the same test, i got 22 inches from the bottom of the tire to the floor. those 7 inches make a world of differnce for me out on the trails since i have open diffs. its my daily driver and yes there is an increased amount of body roll but i drive carefully. ive been thinking about upgrading springs but i love the ride with the super soft stock saggy springs haha

 
I had a broken link in the rear. Basically no rear sway bar. AND I HATED IT. absolutely hated it. Truck would be all over the road. And especially on shitty pot hole roads/construction roads. Even when off roading. It would flex to much. Every time the drive shaft would hit the gas tank skid plate. Causing the weight on the drive shaft to catch onto the gas tank. Now running Mstudt sway bar links. And for me it's day and night. Much more safer and stable on the road. Took it off roading and the drive shaft wouldn't hit the gas tank UNLESS REALLY REALLY FLEXING.
 
Since there are differing opinions on whether disconnecting the front sway bar makes a difference, I decided to test it on my stock height 96 Ltd.

Connected:

highmiles-albums-1996+4runner-picture42027-front-sway-bar-connected-stuffed-wheel-1-25.jpg


highmiles-albums-1996+4runner-picture42028-front-sway-bar-connected-suspended-wheel-7-5.jpg


7.5 inches - 1.25 inches = 6.25 inches articulation with sway bar connected.

Disconnected :

highmiles-albums-1996+4runner-picture42030-front-sway-bar-disconnected-0-25.jpg


highmiles-albums-1996+4runner-picture42029-front-sway-bar-disconnected-9-5.jpg


9.25 inches - 0.25 inches = 9.0 inches of articulation.

So, on a stock 3rd Gen, there is 2.75" of articulation gain with disconnecting the front sway bar. In the mountains, that really helps.

If you have stiff shocks in the front struts, the need for the sway bar may be reduced on the road, depending on how you drive. Pretty sure it is illegal as well. ;-)

Mine are not so stiff, (read "wearing out") so I connect it when on the road.

highmiles-albums-1996+4runner-picture42031-front-sway-bar-disconnected.jpg


Hope this helps the debate. :-P
 
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Since there are differing opinions on whether disconnecting the front sway bar makes a difference, I decided to test it on my stock height 96 Ltd.

Connected:


7.5 inches - 1.25 inches = 6.25 inches articulation with sway bar connected.

Disconnected :


9.25 inches - 0.25 inches = 9.0 inches of articulation.

So, on a stock 3rd Gen, there is 2.75" of articulation gain with disconnecting the front sway bar. In the mountains, that really helps.

If you have stiff shocks in the front struts, the need for the sway bar may be reduced on the road, depending on how you drive. Pretty sure it is illegal as well. ;-)

Mine are not so stiff, (read "wearing out") so I connect it when on the road.


Hope this helps the debate. :-P

I have never heard anyone say it doesnt help the front articulate better. The debate is if it really effects road manners.


With my extended front links I almost get full articulation but still not fully. I have been in situations I easily could get through disconnected and no chance connected. Thats that open diff life!!!!!!!
 
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I think it's pretty obvious that that driver's experience without swaybars will differ greatly because of the others components such as shocks, springs, tires, tire pressure, lift height, load weight, etc. that all play into road manners. So it's no surprise that some love it and some hate it. IMO ditching both bars was the best mod I've done, but I have a medium-stiff suspension, nominal load weight and drive this vehicle off-road 80% of the time - if it was 80% pavement I would probably hate it.
 
Look at the reviews for Wabfab, and ask members on here about them.

Then contact me.

Will do! On my LJ they were great off road but as is being discussed, major body roll on road hence the ease of disconnecting them to match your given activity. With Runner's being coils they too could benefit from the dico'd advantage for sure.

BUT...just some things to talk about with all this...Jeep guys get into fist fights over this at times because there are some very real physics and nuances to the articulation benefits vs traction, etc. Which is why Currie and others came out with things like the antirock...to try and create the best of both worlds (being dico'd and connected) as both have their potential advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation. So it's not so much a "good" or "bad" but some points to ponder that I've learned coming from Jeeps and that world. AND, I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on all this.

The first main point is that by increasing articulation and removing the sway bar you decrease the force pressing down on the suspension and tire thus decreasing traction. And this turns out to be true but to what extent? And, certainly in certain situations traction may or may not be more important than articulation. Hard to say and VERY scenario dependent.

Second, another point is that by removing the sway bar, body roll increases. This is mainly an on-road / speed issue (most agree it's better to be connected on the road and at speed) although it can translate to off-camber situations off road as well where the vehicle's weight will be transferred further to one side without the sway bar attached. The vehicle can physically "list" further on the downhill side of an off camber situation disconnected because the sway bar is not there to hold it more upright. Again, how often and to what degree does this matter? Very scenario dependent again.

Finally and to this end, however, there are "stories" out there in the Jeep realms of guys being disco'd (front and rear usually) and hitting a trail section with an obstacle (and usually an off camber angle as well) such that the wheels (front and rear simultaneously usually though some claim it has happened with only one or the other) drop suddenly while coming off said obstacle (or hole) and shifting the vehicle weight suddenly and dramatically from one side to the other to the point that it flops. I have done a fair amount of wheeling and can't quite buy this entirely...and/or that in such a severe situation that it wouldn't have flopped anyway being connected. So I'm not sure on that, but so the argument/warning goes for what it's worth.

In my personal experience, the advantages of being disconnected up front (off-road) are positive. The increase in articulation outweighs the slight traction loss in most offroad situations. To do this of course all else has to be inline...extended brake lines, other clearances checked etc. And don't be that guy that flexes out and loses a spring (luckily unlike a lot of Jeeps, we have coilovers). But still you want it all to stay put. So, to do it right there's some work and testing involved at the upper ends of the articulation limit that can be achieved with disco's. In the rear, I find that it is not as helpful and sometimes the additional traction in the rear is better actually (why a lot of guys like XJ's with coils front and leafs rear...same idea...flex up front, stand firm in the rear.)

So, for me and what I do, I'm all about quick dico's up front and leaving the sway bar on in the rear. On the highway I'd be connected the entire time front and rear (unless driving from trailhead to trailhead). Off road I'd be disco'd in the front on any decent trail but anything lower end or overlandish...I'd just stay connected front and rear. But...always nice to have the option up front!

Just some thoughts on all that coming from the dark side (Jeep world.)
 
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Will do! On my LJ they were great off road but as is being discussed, major body roll on road hence the ease of disconnecting them to match your given activity. With Runner's being coils they too could benefit from the dico'd advantage for sure.

BUT...just some things to talk about with all this...Jeep guys get into fist fights over this at times because there are some very real physics and nuances to the articulation benefits vs traction, etc. Which is why Currie and others came out with things like the antirock...to try and create the best of both worlds (being dico'd and connected) as both have their potential advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation. So it's not so much a "good" or "bad" but some points to ponder that I've learned coming from Jeeps and that world. AND, I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts on all this.

The first main point is that by increasing articulation and removing the sway bar you decrease the force pressing down on the suspension and tire thus decreasing traction. And this turns out to be true but to what extent? And, certainly in certain situations traction may or may not be more important than articulation. Hard to say and VERY scenario dependent.

Second, another point is that by removing the sway bar, body roll increases. This is mainly an on-road / speed issue (most agree it's better to be connected on the road and at speed) although it can translate to off-camber situations off road as well where the vehicle's weight will be transferred further to one side without the sway bar attached. The vehicle can physically "list" further on the downhill side of an off camber situation disconnected because the sway bar is not there to hold it more upright. Again, how often and to what degree does this matter? Very scenario dependent again.

Finally and to this end, however, there are "stories" out there in the Jeep realms of guys being disco'd (front and rear usually) and hitting a trail section with an obstacle (and usually an off camber angle as well) such that the wheels (front and rear simultaneously usually though some claim it has happened with only one or the other) drop suddenly while coming off said obstacle (or hole) and shifting the vehicle weight suddenly and dramatically from one side to the other to the point that it flops. I have done a fair amount of wheeling and can't quite buy this entirely...and/or that in such a severe situation that it wouldn't have flopped anyway being connected. So I'm not sure on that, but so the argument/warning goes for what it's worth.

In my personal experience, the advantages of being disconnected up front (off-road) are positive. The increase in articulation outweighs the slight traction loss in most offroad situations. To do this of course all else has to be inline...extended brake lines, other clearances checked etc. And don't be that guy that flexes out and loses a spring (luckily unlike a lot of Jeeps, we have coilovers). But still you want it all to stay put. So, to do it right there's some work and testing involved at the upper ends of the articulation limit that can be achieved with disco's. In the rear, I find that it is not as helpful and sometimes the additional traction in the rear is better actually (why a lot of guys like XJ's with coils front and leafs rear...same idea...flex up front, stand firm in the rear.)

So, for me and what I do, I'm all about quick dico's up front and leaving the sway bar on in the rear. On the highway I'd be connected the entire time front and rear (unless driving from trailhead to trailhead). Off road I'd be disco'd in the front on any decent trail but anything lower end or overlandish...I'd just stay connected front and rear. But...always nice to have the option up front!

Just some thoughts on all that coming from the dark side (Jeep world.)


Pretty much everything your saying is correct, but mainly a jeep issue!!! LOL.

1st. Your correct on the traction issue when disconnected. The weight does not transfer to the other tire so even if its touching the ground it may not have enough weight to do anything and with an open diff you will just spin. But I have tested this on the same obstacles and have always found disconnected and barely touching the ground is better than not touching the ground. To get best of both worlds you can keep one side of the front connected and it will transfer some weight to that tire at least.

2nd. Completely agree with the transfer of body and or body roll on the trail. I have found disconnected front. Connected rear with extended links you gain the front articulation but dont get the negative body roll as long as rear is connected. I have my rear sway bar relocated and extended links allowing full rear travel.

3rd. The issue you state about Jeeps flopping seems to be more of a jeep issue. I have seen many youtube videos of short wheel base wranglers doing what you say coming off an obstacle. I have yet to see a 4runner with its wheel base doing this. Knock on wood!

I have found like you state best way is extended fronts with disco. Extended links and relocation brackets for rear. Rubber bushings instead of polys in rear are recommended also because I have found the polys dont flex and bend the sway bar link. The rubber allows flex so they dont bend.
 
Pretty much everything your saying is correct, but mainly a jeep issue!!! LOL.

1st. Your correct on the traction issue when disconnected. The weight does not transfer to the other tire so even if its touching the ground it may not have enough weight to do anything and with an open diff you will just spin. But I have tested this on the same obstacles and have always found disconnected and barely touching the ground is better than not touching the ground. To get best of both worlds you can keep one side of the front connected and it will transfer some weight to that tire at least.

Fully agree. Interesting idea about keeping one side connected. That is similar to what the Antirock and others try and achieve with their design.

2nd. Completely agree with the transfer of body and or body roll on the trail. I have found disconnected front. Connected rear with extended links you gain the front articulation but dont get the negative body roll as long as rear is connected. I have my rear sway bar relocated and extended links allowing full rear travel.

Giving me things to think about for sure...hmmm? I can see how the extended links and relocation could/would really help to maximize articulation while still getting traction and no body roll. Best of both worlds approach. I'll have to research.

3rd. The issue you state about Jeeps flopping seems to be more of a jeep issue. I have seen many youtube videos of short wheel base wranglers doing what you say coming off an obstacle. I have yet to see a 4runner with its wheel base doing this. Knock on wood!

Let's hope. There are all kinds of issues that are exacerbated by short wheelbases. My LJ was better but still not like the 4Runner. I can't BELIEVE how short CJ5's were. And guys would lift those and wheel them! Crazy.

I have found like you state best way is extended fronts with disco. Extended links and relocation brackets for rear. Rubber bushings instead of polys in rear are recommended also because I have found the polys dont flex and bend the sway bar link. The rubber allows flex so they dont bend.

More good points to think about for sure when I get to this.
 
Best of both worlds? (what am I missing?)

So I've been reading up on SB Discos. There's obviously some debate, but I haven't seen this "no compromise-best of both worlds" idea...looking for feedback.

I do a lot of city/highway driving, and I tend to make good time :plane:. So say I want full on-road handling, but also great dirt handling in the gnarly stuff (normally impossible to have both)....so why not install front and rear discos, and even new, or even all poly (like the autocross guys use) bushings on both sway bars, and aside from the time to disconnect off road...well there wouldn't be any debate as to disconnecting front, rear, both, or neither, because they're both essentially "gone" while off road.

Compromises suck, and this seems like the ideal option for best of both worlds, sans the 10 minutes or so to disconnect, and of course cash. Am I missing something obvious...or not so obvious??? Thanks!

Setup: 2000 V6 5-Speed 4x4.
Sonoran Steel System 1.2 w/Diff Drop:
FRONT: Rebuildable Radflow 2.0 coilovers with SPC Adj. UCA's
REAR : 80 Series LC Springs+Tokico shocks, Steve's Adj. panhard bar

Also thumbs up to Steve @ Sonoran steel, happy camper here.
 
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You absolutely do not need to disconnect the rear sway bar in these trucks so just throw that thought away.

Yes there is an articulation gain from disconnecting the front sway bar but it is only realised on the most moderate to serious of off-road trails.

Desert running? Leave the front sway connected.

Most mountain trails? Leave it connected.

Rock climbing? OK now it's time to disconnect the front only.


Back to discussing the rear sways .... leave them connected. You can hit full articulation on a 3rd gen with the rear sway completed connected. Doubtful? See the pics on the first page of my build. I have the rear maxed out in articulation with only the SS 1.2 bump stops capping out the flex.

Testing out the flex; 4Runner pulled through Hollister park with no problems (if it had been raining might have been different story)







Edit: This is with a Sonoran Steel (SS) 1.2 Bilstein Tundra (front) & OEM Land Cruiser shocks+springs kit on the rear.
 
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